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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

UPDATE 5/23 - Golden Knights select ROOT Sports for local TV

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Old
04-10-2017, 12:51 PM
  #26
snovalleyhockeyfan
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Originally Posted by BattleBorn View Post
Sinclair's also got an affiliate in Reno.

I don't know if it's still the case, but KSNV (the local NBC affiliate owned by Sinclair) used to have sister stations through the Valley Media Group while they were still known as KVBC in the other smaller media markets in the Southern Nevada/Eastern California/Western Arizona area. That could add some small numbers to the overall viewership.
Makes that idea a lot better, BB. They can sign with them for one or two years, put the games into a network setup with their Reno and Salt Lake stations as I believe they also own one there, too, and they'd cover their primary and secondary territory fairly easily without the expense of setting up an RSN for simply just that one team. Those one-team RSN's right now are not very desirable for carriage by cable/satellite companies as we're seeing so clearly down in Los Angeles.......

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04-10-2017, 12:58 PM
  #27
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Vegas' assigned secondary market is a huge swath of land, We've got all of Utah, pretty much the whole southern part of the San Joaquin Valley, Montana, Idaho, and I think the northwest part of Arizona.

It's why I'd always assumed Root would be in the running for the Knights rights.

Going with local affiliates doesn't really monetize the secondary areas, and it certainly doesn't create more Knights fans out of areas that are likely filled with people following Denver sports.

The first thing that came to my mind when they announced the Vegas market was Root Sports. It's like the market was almost designed for Root. Perhaps it was and Root is using that to its advantage and squeezing a little since they're the only real RSN in a position to cover the majority of the area.

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04-10-2017, 01:05 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
Though True North had allot less time to start up. When in 2011 did they announce their media rights deal with TSN?
Mid summer.

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04-10-2017, 04:21 PM
  #29
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Don't like being negative but I think this is going to be the 1st of many problems for the Golden Knights.

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04-10-2017, 04:24 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
The Las Vegas experiment is already having trouble to find support...

Las Vegasí new hockey team struggling to sell media rights

It will be hard to win this market with the NFL coming in a few years.
problem could be the asking price


nfl is only part of the problem

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04-10-2017, 05:23 PM
  #31
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isn't CSN Bay Area now NBC Sports Bay Area under that banner, that eventually all CSN's MAY TAG the NBC Sports banner, but how much confusion between a RSN and NBC's sports channel aka NBCSN?

Remember, too, Denver's media is Altitude, much like NESN co-exists with CSN-NE.


Last edited by tarheelhockey: 04-10-2017 at 10:05 PM. Reason: QDP
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04-10-2017, 05:28 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
Mid summer.
But one gotta wonder if that's accurate (time-frame wise). Let's remember that TSN (yes the network that won the battle for local TV rights) was running a Jets-o-Meter as early as January, they most likely knew what was happening behind the curtains and were already in negotiations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
problem could be the asking price


nfl is only part of the problem
Considering the subject of this thread, NFL is not a problem at all, there is no local-NFL tv rights.

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04-10-2017, 06:33 PM
  #33
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These new TV deals are on the backside of the curve (bubble). Las Vegas market aside, there's a pulling back of the insanely high dollar deals of recent years for a lot of teams and leagues throughout the whole spectrum of sports. But you already knew that.

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04-10-2017, 07:06 PM
  #34
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What's probably happening.

Las Vegas is talking to multiple potential TV rights partners searching for the highest bid.

NY Post

Well they haven't gotten a TV rights partner yet so that obviously means they're struggling to find one.

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04-10-2017, 07:18 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
What's probably happening.

Las Vegas is talking to multiple potential TV rights partners searching for the highest bid.

NY Post

Well they haven't gotten a TV rights partner yet so that obviously means they're struggling to find one.
The article said they have received offers so finding one doesn't seem to be an issue. It's the value of those offers being just north of 10 million/year.

So yes, they're still in search for the highest bid and there's still plenty of time. Even if it's low as long as they can avoid a long term, they should be OK down the road.

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04-10-2017, 07:59 PM
  #36
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But one gotta wonder if that's accurate (time-frame wise). Let's remember that TSN (yes the network that won the battle for local TV rights) was running a Jets-o-Meter as early as January, they most likely knew what was happening behind the curtains and were already in negotiations.
You are correct.

True North had a great relationship with CJOB who did all the Moose 1.0 games.

Being loyal, they gave CJOB every opportunity to be the radio rights holder.

TSN 1290 outbid them and the deal was announced mid summer.

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04-10-2017, 08:19 PM
  #37
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lets try to add up some numbers for LV GK:

"Sponsorship spending on the National Hockey League and the league's 30 clubs is expected to total $447 million in the 2014-2015 season"

National TV money is 200 million from NBC, 400 million (american) Rogers, lets say 200 million TVA Sports and overseas deals. (25 million each team)

Lets say each team does 20 million each in merchandise. Gate is 17000 x 65 x 41= 45 million (including suites, parking, concessions)

14 million + 45 million+ 25 million= 84 million

Their costs would have to be 114 million in year one if they are going to lose 30 million and that is impossible.

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04-10-2017, 08:26 PM
  #38
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Re: the reported 30 million in losses. Do we know if Foley and co. paid the expansion fee in cash or are they financing all part it?

If amoratized over 30 years, looking at 17 million a year to pay back plus interest charges.

The debt repayment with that kind of with such a large sum, plus their share of TV and other central revenues being by 31 instead of 30. Losses of that size with a small media deal doesn't seem so unrealistic

Edit below: yes TVA sub leases from Rogers so it's not revenues for the other owners. Plus the Roger deal is paid in CAD with the Canadian based teams getting 35% off the start so 65% to divide by the 24 US based owners.


Last edited by Mightygoose: 04-10-2017 at 08:34 PM.
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04-10-2017, 08:27 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
lets try to add up some numbers for LV GK:

"Sponsorship spending on the National Hockey League and the league's 30 clubs is expected to total $447 million in the 2014-2015 season"

National TV money is 200 million from NBC, 400 million (american) Rogers, lets say 200 million TVA Sports and overseas deals. (25 million each team)

Lets say each team does 20 million each in merchandise. Gate is 17000 x 65 x 41= 45 million (including suites, parking, concessions)

14 million + 45 million+ 25 million= 84 million

Their costs would have to be 114 million in year one if they are going to lose 30 million and that is impossible.

Didn't TVA sub lease their rights from Rogers?

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04-10-2017, 08:43 PM
  #41
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I have said from day 1 that TV rights in Vegas would be a huge problem.

Vegas is the 40th largest TV market in the US which makes it the smallest in the NHL outside of Buffalo - however the Sabres can also pick up eyeballs in Rochester and Syracuse, Vegas has no such option.

I have to assume when the NHL vetted Vegas as a market they told Foley what to expect for TV revenue.
And yet they consistently get higher hockey ratings that almost all non-NHL cities and many cities that actually do have a team.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...-a-good-gamble

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04-10-2017, 09:21 PM
  #42
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Those are really high projections without considering operating costs. I'd be really surprised if teams were netting 20 million a year in merch.
for an expansion team, I think 20 million is doable. They are selling Golden Knights merch at like 30 locations right now and NHL.com

Someone else said TVA sub-leased Rogers and that is correct, I missed that. However the league still does have international deals with many countries.

Teams that are spending to the salary cap have costs above 100 million. I find it extremely hard to believe that an NHL team with 55 million payroll has 45 million in other costs. That is outrageous.

Simple numbers; 50 million in NHL money, 40 million gate from 41 home games plus pre-season. At least 100 million coming in when building is full.

What it's like in year 3 is a different conversation.

EDIT

https://www.quora.com/What-revenues-...or-an-NHL-team

found this article on the coyotes bankrupcy in 2009. National numbers are way stronger now. Coyotes losses came from very low ticket revenue and big arena management costs.


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04-10-2017, 09:29 PM
  #43
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Lots of visiting fans will want to go to Vegas to see them play against the Golden Knights... in Vegas.

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04-10-2017, 09:31 PM
  #44
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=2209019

Apparently, they've got the radio deal figured out.

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04-10-2017, 10:02 PM
  #45
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I don't know, there doesn't seem to be a source on that.

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04-11-2017, 12:28 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
But one gotta wonder if that's accurate (time-frame wise). Let's remember that TSN (yes the network that won the battle for local TV rights) was running a Jets-o-Meter as early as January, they most likely knew what was happening behind the curtains and were already in negotiations.



Considering the subject of this thread, NFL is not a problem at all, there is no local-NFL tv rights.
Wouldn't the local tv companies be doing their due diligence in vetting what the corporate community is going to pay for advertising for them to make money from buying the tv rights of the Knights?

Is the Raiders arrival in the coming years having an impact as those corporate dollars are being saved to go towards the Raiders.

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04-11-2017, 01:42 AM
  #47
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How do local rights work in the states? I am certain Vegas can sell in the Nevada market but that is only 3M people. Does the league allow teams to sell rights to states who don't have a team(say like Oregon or Washington State?)

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04-11-2017, 01:56 AM
  #48
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How do local rights work in the states? I am certain Vegas can sell in the Nevada market but that is only 3M people. Does the league allow teams to sell rights to states who don't have a team(say like Oregon or Washington State?)
They are network rights, not state rights. For example when I lived in Oklahoma I got Stars games because FS Southwest covered Oklahoma. Oregon and Washington(where I live now) are currently outside of any NHL tv network however regional sports are covered by ROOT Northwest. I know Idaho gets Avs games so they're covered by that ROOT network.

Las Vegas can either join an existing network(CSN-CA or ROOT would be my guesses) or they can create their own affiliate. State boundaries aren't an issue but market saturation could be(for example FS West already carries the Ducks and Kings).

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04-11-2017, 02:04 AM
  #49
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Ahh, nice to see the Post back in the game with its anonymous "hockey exec" sources, like the ones who said Andrew Barroway was going to flip the Coyotes to Foley a year and a half ago.

Nice to see consistency in the agenda peddling, though.

I remember 'ol Brooksie boasting he had three confirmed sources that Barroway would never buy in.

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04-11-2017, 02:17 AM
  #50
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They are network rights, not state rights. For example when I lived in Oklahoma I got Stars games because FS Southwest covered Oklahoma. Oregon and Washington(where I live now) are currently outside of any NHL tv network however regional sports are covered by ROOT Northwest. I know Idaho gets Avs games so they're covered by that ROOT network.
The league should look into selling packages of other networks games to non NHL markets(basically on nights that don't interfere with NBC sports) even if it's just a case of CBC coverage on Saturday nights for places like Washington or Mississippi

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