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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

UPDATE 5/23 - Golden Knights select ROOT Sports for local TV

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Old
04-11-2017, 06:56 PM
  #76
Elephant Igloo
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
The league should look into selling packages of other networks games to non NHL markets(basically on nights that don't interfere with NBC sports) even if it's just a case of CBC coverage on Saturday nights for places like Washington or Mississippi
That's what I think the NHL should have done with the Southeast in advance of an expansion team (or maybe no expansion team at all): give them a package of games from other FSN stations. You could have grown the game that way.

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04-11-2017, 08:29 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by The Duck Knight View Post
The problem with that is Lakers games would have priority. Based on my experiences as a Ducks/Lakers fan, there will be 25+ Knights games minimum that are going on at the same times as Lakers games. What do you do with all those Knights games?

Also I don't think Cox which is the biggest cable company in Southern Nevada even gets Spectrum Sportsnet.
COX is known to be a hard negotiator when dealing with RSN's.

FOX might be inclined to set up a Fox Sports Nevada and getting programming from both Arizona and California. But again this had to be vetted by the NHL when they were considering Vegas as a possible franchise.

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04-11-2017, 09:32 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
The league should look into selling packages of other networks games to non NHL markets(basically on nights that don't interfere with NBC sports) even if it's just a case of CBC coverage on Saturday nights for places like Washington or Mississippi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Igloo View Post
That's what I think the NHL should have done with the Southeast in advance of an expansion team (or maybe no expansion team at all): give them a package of games from other FSN stations. You could have grown the game that way.
The CW or MyNewtorkTV would be great for this. Plus it would be on network.

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04-11-2017, 10:32 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
Anyway, isn't there a limit of 50 miles to what teams CAN CLAIM as their territory ?
NHL has two different territory definitions.

Home Territory: pretty clear cut, any county within the 50 mile radius.

TV Territory: counties in which the team has the right to have their games broadcast. Some counties could be shared by multiple teams.

It's not clear at all how the NHL assigns TV Territory rights. For example one of the documents that came up in the Phoenix bankruptcy showed an NHL map stating the Coyotes had rights to broadcast in all of New Mexico, parts of Utah and Colorado, and even a few counties in California.

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04-12-2017, 03:27 PM
  #80
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04-14-2017, 12:05 AM
  #81
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How much is the Vegas NHL expansion franchise paying to have their games broadcast on local radio?

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04-14-2017, 12:37 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
The CW or MyNewtorkTV would be great for this. Plus it would be on network.
I am not sure you can do this on a network because those are broadcast everywhere. But most places must have a local Sports Cable station they should just try strike deals with them to broadcast games on non NBC Sports nights.

I think the best example might be Seattle. Why not come up with a package for a Washington and Oregon based Sports network to show a bunch of Canucks and Vegas games for instance.

Same deal with allowing say a team like Nashville to sell rights to games in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia or Mississippi.

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04-14-2017, 01:32 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I am not sure you can do this on a network because those are broadcast everywhere. But most places must have a local Sports Cable station they should just try strike deals with them to broadcast games on non NBC Sports nights.

I think the best example might be Seattle. Why not come up with a package for a Washington and Oregon based Sports network to show a bunch of Canucks and Vegas games for instance.

Same deal with allowing say a team like Nashville to sell rights to games in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia or Mississippi.
I assume there's some sort of contract rule or complicated legal process preventing Canadian teams from selling contract rights across the border. I'd be in both Canucks and Flames territory if they did. Maybe someone else has an explanation.

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04-14-2017, 01:50 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by dechire View Post
I assume there's some sort of contract rule or complicated legal process preventing Canadian teams from selling contract rights across the border. I'd be in both Canucks and Flames territory if they did. Maybe someone else has an explanation.
Back in the 70's there was a huge dustup when a small Vermont station on UHF ( that was on Montreal cable ) started beaming Bruins games into Quebec. Sam Pollock who was the Habs GM demanded that Vermont be classified Montreal territory and Clarence Campbell said no. For several years the Bruins had more games on Montreal cable than the Habs did because they showed all road games which Montreal did not.

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04-14-2017, 02:27 AM
  #85
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I assume there's some sort of contract rule or complicated legal process preventing Canadian teams from selling contract rights across the border. I'd be in both Canucks and Flames territory if they did. Maybe someone else has an explanation.
The league makes it's own rules how to sell tv rights. There is nothing to stop Toronto for instance selling it's rights in California other then the league says no. The only potential issues I can see in what I suggest is current contracts with the NHL for TV rights taking exception to the NHL broadcasting in certain areas. Basically I can see NBC not being 100% happy that the NHL might find it's way into certain markets, figuring it will hinder their deal and nixing it. Local networks might also take exception to the NHL using it's broadcasts in other areas(once again though the NHL could force them to give up those rights in future deals)

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04-14-2017, 03:00 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I am not sure you can do this on a network because those are broadcast everywhere. But most places must have a local Sports Cable station they should just try strike deals with them to broadcast games on non NBC Sports nights.

I think the best example might be Seattle. Why not come up with a package for a Washington and Oregon based Sports network to show a bunch of Canucks and Vegas games for instance.

Same deal with allowing say a team like Nashville to sell rights to games in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia or Mississippi.
the only issue is, in regards to the Canucks, it's a Canadian and US issue, the FCC here might not have an issue, but do the Canucks local rights extend to the US Vancouver (WA), then you have the CTRC, which is the Canadian equivalent of the FCC, (YOU only hear and/or read about them on the Radio media sites (Fybush),

Portland has its own network, as does Seattle, just the ownership (Vulcan) is represented in both states, but Seattle's fine, you'll just add a potential contract to a franchise if one exists, and that's far from certain... see the Seattle thread.

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04-14-2017, 03:27 AM
  #87
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The Canadian version of the FCC (CRTC) has denied Canadian radio stations from carrying Red Sox and Bruins games in Atlantic Canada.

TSN 690 in Montreal wanted to carry Red Sox play by play and was told by MLB that Montreal was Toronto territory.

The Vegas TV market is at best worth $12M a year and that is pushing it.

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04-14-2017, 04:07 AM
  #88
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The Canadian version of the FCC (CRTC) has denied Canadian radio stations from carrying Red Sox and Bruins games in Atlantic Canada.

TSN 690 in Montreal wanted to carry Red Sox play by play and was told by MLB that Montreal was Toronto territory.
I do think if the league truly wanted Boston Red Sox to be available in Atlantic Canada, they could get(or find a way to try force) the Blue Jays and the people who own the Blue Jays rights to agree on allowing it and they could get this past the CRTC.

Simple fact is the thing most likely stopping this is the Blue Jays and the owners of the Blue Jays TV rights(sportsnet) looking out for their best interests

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04-14-2017, 09:44 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I do think if the league truly wanted Boston Red Sox to be available in Atlantic Canada, they could get(or find a way to try force) the Blue Jays and the people who own the Blue Jays rights to agree on allowing it and they could get this past the CRTC.

Simple fact is the thing most likely stopping this is the Blue Jays and the owners of the Blue Jays TV rights(sportsnet) looking out for their best interests
CRTC is basically handfed thru their backpocked by Bell and Rogers, so you are most likely right.

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04-14-2017, 09:58 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
The Canadian version of the FCC (CRTC) has denied Canadian radio stations from carrying Red Sox and Bruins games in Atlantic Canada.

TSN 690 in Montreal wanted to carry Red Sox play by play and was told by MLB that Montreal was Toronto territory.

The Vegas TV market is at best worth $12M a year and that is pushing it.
Vegas had the same percentage of people watching NBC as Washington did this season.

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04-14-2017, 10:11 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by dechire View Post
I assume there's some sort of contract rule or complicated legal process preventing Canadian teams from selling contract rights across the border. I'd be in both Canucks and Flames territory if they did. Maybe someone else has an explanation.
Not sure if this is what you're asking, but some Canucks games are simulcast in Oregon/Washington.

http://www.csnnw.com/vancouver-canuc...-csn-2016-2017

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04-14-2017, 10:45 AM
  #92
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Vegas had the same percentage of people watching NBC as Washington did this season.
The fact that Vegas has been (and might still be) a Top 10 Hockey US ratings market probably doesn't help as much as we'd all think. While it's good that people here watch hockey, it might also be bad that they're watching teams other than the Knights.

Plus, after all that we're still only two million something people in the desert.

Like has been said previously in the thread, we're a smaller market. Plus, we're pretty likely to have whoever winds up with the rights starting from scratch and building either a new channel from scratch for Las Vegas sports or building a completely new department for the Knights.

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04-14-2017, 12:10 PM
  #93
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"Foley paid the NHL a $500 million expansion fee to secure the team, which starts playing next season. If he can only attract $10 million annually from a regional sports network, the team could lose more than $30 million a year, the hockey executive figured."

Yikes.
The team might lose money but the owner wont. So when there is a concert in the rink or another entertainment type thing going on at the rink, that money does not go on the hockey teams ledger, but the owner of the hockey team gets the profit off that event. I would imagine that once that rink is up and going it will have something going on there 365 days a year.

Not sure if the owner is funding the rink by himself or if there is civic money involved, but in most cases a new NHL hockey team in a new market in the states is a lost leader, the real purpose is so the owner can get public money to build a rink to attract a NHL team so they can profit off other events in that facility. So give me money for a NHL team but I'm going to have Ricky Martin and Elton John do their residency at night in the summer months, Cirque du Soleil in the afternoons and every other day in the winter we got some other event.


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04-14-2017, 12:35 PM
  #94
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I swear I heard George McPhee say on Prime Time Sports yesterday afternoon say the Golden Knights have a TV deal. He didn't follow that up with anything, nor did McCown or Cox press him for any details.

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04-14-2017, 12:58 PM
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Though True North had allot less time to start up. When in 2011 did they announce their media rights deal with TSN?
Not really the same. They had an operational infrastructure in place and an established sports network that wanted to put the games on. If True North had come in out of the blue and had to create an entire organization from the ground up, it would be a somewhat better comparison.

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04-14-2017, 12:58 PM
  #96
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I swear I heard George McPhee say on Prime Time Sports yesterday afternoon say the Golden Knights have a TV deal. He didn't follow that up with anything, nor did McCown or Cox press him for any details.
If they do have one, no details have been announced. That isn't entirely unusual. They might be sitting on it until after the draft.

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04-14-2017, 01:06 PM
  #97
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That's what I think the NHL should have done with the Southeast in advance of an expansion team (or maybe no expansion team at all): give them a package of games from other FSN stations. You could have grown the game that way.
From about 1990-1992, Turner Sports founded SportSouth and would broadcast Atlanta Knights (IHL) games as well as picking up other games from different RSNs across the nation. That stopped when ESPN got the national contract back.

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04-14-2017, 03:31 PM
  #98
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The team might lose money but the owner wont. So when there is a concert in the rink or another entertainment type thing going on at the rink, that money does not go on the hockey teams ledger, but the owner of the hockey team gets the profit off that event. I would imagine that once that rink is up and going it will have something going on there 365 days a year.

Not sure if the owner is funding the rink by himself or if there is civic money involved, but in most cases a new NHL hockey team in a new market in the states is a lost leader, the real purpose is so the owner can get public money to build a rink to attract a NHL team so they can profit off other events in that facility. So give me money for a NHL team but I'm going to have Ricky Martin and Elton John do their residency at night in the summer months, Cirque du Soleil in the afternoons and every other day in the winter we got some other event.
Thats the issue the arena in Vegas is 100% private money (MGM group build it ) and Foley has nothing to do with it, he's basically just a tenant in it. There's also no residency in this arena and probably never will be , residency in Vegas are mostly in 500-5000 seat venue. MGM grand arena, Mandalay bay Arena, Orleans Arena never had any artist holding up residencies

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04-14-2017, 05:49 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekneek View Post
From about 1990-1992, Turner Sports founded SportSouth and would broadcast Atlanta Knights (IHL) games as well as picking up other games from different RSNs across the nation. That stopped when ESPN got the national contract back.
and Sport South is now Fox Sports Southeast.....

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04-15-2017, 10:58 AM
  #100
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Thats the issue the arena in Vegas is 100% private money (MGM group build it ) and Foley has nothing to do with it, he's basically just a tenant in it. There's also no residency in this arena and probably never will be , residency in Vegas are mostly in 500-5000 seat venue. MGM grand arena, Mandalay bay Arena, Orleans Arena never had any artist holding up residencies
Well then he's a dumbass if he has no other revenue stream. People go to Vegas to do things they can't do else where. Whos to say there wont be a NBA team sometime soon.

He would have been better off dropping his money into a bunch of dollar stores on the west coast, he would have made a much better return.

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