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2017 NHL Entry Draft Thread II

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Old
04-21-2017, 11:59 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
When I do my "Best Of" categories for Recrutes Draft Guide and poll NHL scouts next week about who has the best shot among 2017 prospects...I already know what their answer will be - check out this goal from Tippett last night!

https://recrutes.ca/owen-tippett-1g-...h-apr-20-2017/
I don't get how you can change your opinions so easily when you make such extreme statements about players. I remember you speaking very negatively about Vesalainen, saying he's a perimeter player and that he won't be able to produce the way he plays at the NHL (prior to the u18's).. now you have him going top 3?

You weren't very high on Tippett either, now you're starting to link a few of his goals and are speaking positively about him?

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04-21-2017, 12:00 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Pompeius Magnus View Post
That would have been a pretty big upset if the Finns lost that one . Virtanen is indeed quite good, he has to be on our second round potential list.

He was good again yesterday...his skating will likely keep him out of the top 62 though... https://recrutes.ca/santeri-virtanen...c-apr-20-2017/

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04-21-2017, 12:05 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Pompeius Magnus View Post
It's a broken link, must be a typo somewhere.
https://recrutes.ca/owen-tippett-1g-...h-apr-20-2017/

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04-21-2017, 12:07 PM
  #104
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As far as ''best shots'' are concerned, Ratcliffe has to be somewhere in the top 5. I've seen him fire absolute laser wristers out there.

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04-21-2017, 12:16 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Pompeius Magnus View Post
As far as ''best shots'' are concerned, Ratcliffe has to be somewhere in the top 5. I've seen him fire absolute laser wristers out there.

Possibly..there are some very good shooters..including Tippett's teammate Hague...Robertson will likely be second on the list..his shot/release are amazing too. Rasmussen can really fire a puck...and Tolvanen can put it anywhere he wants..tremendous accuracy. Gadjovich is also going to be under serious consideration...and I'm likely leaving out a couple.

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04-21-2017, 03:33 PM
  #106
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The top end of this draft might be underwhelming, but the depth sounds pretty good.

Tons of interesting names should be available by our pick... I'm warming up to Brannstrom.

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04-21-2017, 03:52 PM
  #107
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The Habs are now ranking 25th in the regular season draft order. The only thing that is sure right now is that they won't be drafting 25th.

If they make it to the final four and win their division, they will draft 28th, 29th, 30th or 31st.

If they don't make it to the final four, meaning they are eliminated by the Rangers or Ottawa (at this stage maybe even Boston), since the team making it would be lower than they are in the ranking, they will drop one rank. If Minnesota and Chicago are eliminated, Nashville or Saint-Louis having finished behind them they will drop another rank. If Edmonton or San Jose beats Anaheim, another one. And finally a long shot for another drop if Toronto beats both Washington and Pittsburg.

In short, if they get out of the division they will draft either 28th, 29th, 30th or 31st and if they don't, 24th, 23rd, 22nd or 21st. At this stage, it looks like 23rd.

You also have to remember that their other choices will be affected accordingly.

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04-21-2017, 04:27 PM
  #108
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Isn't the draft formula the finalists; then conference finalists, regular season divisional winners (ie: us) and then everyone else? Or am I wrong?


The Habs won the Atlantic division. I'm pretty sure the lowest they will select is 24th.

Let's just say the Rangers and Pittsburgh make it to the Eastern Conference Finals. And forthe west, let's say it's the Oilers and Nashville. And then let's say it's a Rangers/Nashville cup finals, with Nashville winning.

The final draft rankings would look like this:


22. Minnesta [106 points]
23. Columbus [108 points]
24. Montreal [Atlantic winner/103 points]
25. Anaheim [Pacific winner/105 points]
26. Chicago [Central division winner/ 109 points]
27. Washington [President's trophy winner/118 points]
28. Edmonton [Conf. finals]
29. Pittsburgh [Conf. finals; higher points]
30. NY Rangers [runner-up]
31. Nashville [cup winners]


Because we won our division, this would be the best possible outcome.

Again, I could be wrong, but I'm going by what's on wikipedia:

1. The teams that did not qualify for the playoffs the previous season (picks 1–15)
2. The teams that made the playoffs in the previous season but did not win either their division in the regular season or play in the Conference Finals (picks 16–23 up to 27)
3. The teams that won their divisions in the previous season but did not play in the Conference Finals (potentially picks 24–27)
4. The teams that lose in Conference Finals (picks 28 and 29)
5. The team that was the runner-up in the Stanley Cup Finals (pick 30)
6. The team that won the Stanley Cup in the previous season (pick 31)




Oh, and as for our pick, I'm warming up to Evan Barratt, as well. He's a Pennsylvania-born kid, so I'd think Pittsburgh -- and especially Philadelphia in the 2nd round wouldn't pass on him. He's not the biggest of players, but he has good numbers and stats, along with having some great IQ. I hope he's in the mix for the Habs's first round selection.

Honestly, considering our position, any one of Robert Thomas (who I think is going in the 10-20 ranger anyhow); Jaret Anderson-Dolan; Filip Chytil; Morgan Frost; Alexei Lipanov or Evan Barratt would be a fine pickup for them.

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04-21-2017, 10:36 PM
  #109
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Barratt in the second round? Before the U18 he wasn't even on most scouts' top 120 list...he's smart and playing well but size/skating will hurt him on draft day. Third round you might consider him..but Habs won't be grabbing him with a second.

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04-22-2017, 12:58 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Barratt in the second round? Before the U18 he wasn't even on most scouts' top 120 list...he's smart and playing well but size/skating will hurt him on draft day. Third round you might consider him..but Habs won't be grabbing him with a second.
Then most scouts are simply bad at their job. If they knew what they were talking about he'd be on "most of their radar" heading into the U18's (before he put up numbers!, that just makes it easy for low end scout to pretend they know what they're talking about). He's been the best forward on the USDP U18 team this year.

Starting to find most of these online scouting services a bit funny. They just regurgitate what a bunch of people say over and over again... and god know's if those scouts even know what theyre talking about. Throw in a few "controversial picks" just to stir up some debate and get your name out there.. voila you're a scouting service!


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Old
04-22-2017, 03:50 AM
  #111
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Oh, and as for our pick, I'm warming up to Evan Barratt, as well. He's a Pennsylvania-born kid, so I'd think Pittsburgh -- and especially Philadelphia in the 2nd round wouldn't pass on him. He's not the biggest of players, but he has good numbers and stats, along with having some great IQ. I hope he's in the mix for the Habs's first round selection.

Honestly, considering our position, any one of Robert Thomas (who I think is going in the 10-20 ranger anyhow); Jaret Anderson-Dolan; Filip Chytil; Morgan Frost; Alexei Lipanov or Evan Barratt would be a fine pickup for them.
For our first round pick, IMO:

bold = yes

not bold = no

I have not been at all impressed with JAD, same with Lipanov.

Just my 2 cents, but Ikonen should be on your list. I don't know that I want to take him with a 1st, but I also don't want to miss out on him.

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04-22-2017, 05:24 AM
  #112
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I don't get how you can change your opinions so easily when you make such extreme statements about players. I remember you speaking very negatively about Vesalainen, saying he's a perimeter player and that he won't be able to produce the way he plays at the NHL (prior to the u18's).. now you have him going top 3?

You weren't very high on Tippett either, now you're starting to link a few of his goals and are speaking positively about him?
Great point. I remember him telling us also how we shouldn't judge players according to one specific tournament either.

But hey, somehow, he finds a way to get people interested in his site. It,s a very good way compared to others who are just sticking by their point of view 'cause...what else is it to see. While for him, fans might have a new name to look at every week. So at this point, I'm taking this as a way to get people interested in his site. And you know what? It works a whole lot. Good for him.

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04-22-2017, 05:27 AM
  #113
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As far as Morgan Frost is concerned....I have no idea what to think of him. Type of player that you don't see a whole lot but then the guy gets it going. Extremely intelligent. Average size. The guy makes things happen and racks the points. And you can't teach that.

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04-22-2017, 05:34 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Great point. I remember him telling us also how we shouldn't judge players according to one specific tournament either.

But hey, somehow, he finds a way to get people interested in his site. It,s a very good way compared to others who are just sticking by their point of view 'cause...what else is it to see. While for him, fans might have a new name to look at every week. So at this point, I'm taking this as a way to get people interested in his site. And you know what? It works a whole lot. Good for him.
He actually posted a reply to this very criticism in the prospects main board thread. I don't really get why his list is attracting so much criticism this year. Probably just because he used to be a bit of a meanie.

In short, he changed his rankings based on his viewings of the players, their recent performances, and the opinions of NHL scouts (apparently not just Timmins). That's a lot more than you can say than for any of us.

Just take his opinion of Heiskanen for example. In that mainboard thread one of the first posts was saying ''I think you mean Liljegren for #3.'' Now, to anyone who's been paying attention, that's just ridiculous. But I guess he should have Liljegren ahead of Heiskanen because ''it's just one tournament.'' Bollocks. The big finns have been the best players in this tournament and it hasn't even been close. Is he supposed to not use that information or something?

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04-22-2017, 05:38 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
He actually posted a reply to this very criticism in the prospects main board thread. I don't really get why his list is attracting so much criticism this year. Probably just because he used to be a bit of a meanie.

In short, he changed his rankings based on his viewings of the players, their recent performances, and the opinions of NHL scouts (apparently not just Timmins). That's a lot more than you can say than for any of us.

Just take his opinion of Heiskanen for example. In that mainboard thread one of the first posts was saying ''I think you mean Liljegren for #3.'' Now, to anyone who's been paying attention, that's just ridiculous. But I guess he should have Liljegren ahead of Heiskanen because ''it's just one tournament.'' Bollocks. The big finns have been the best players in this tournament and it hasn't even been close. Is he supposed to not use that information or something?
And again.....I use to do EXACTLY that. And was bashed for it. I was bashed for changing my mind on different occasions. So....I actually don't care that he does it. Again, that's how I do it too. But he does it too so that he attracts fans to his site. And I'm fine with it. Not sure why you panic over this. I have no doubt that he has contacts. No doubt whatsoever. So based on that....I guess we should go easy with CSS list. Who don't have that benefit of changing their list every week. I have no problems with him. He surely has some with me, but I'm past that and look at it as if he would be anybody else. I suscribed to McKeen because of him. I read his site now everyday. I might even subscribe to it too. So I have no problems with him. And actually don't care if he has some with me. I use his stuff for myself. But it's the scouting business. Where an opinion is just that.....an opinion. That's why I'm not harsh on his opinions...doesn't mean that I have to agree all the time though. He has been wrong before just like anybody else. But at least, he puts A WHOLE lot of effort into this. And that, you can't disregard it.


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04-22-2017, 05:55 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
As far as Morgan Frost is concerned....I have no idea what to think of him. Type of player that you don't see a whole lot but then the guy gets it going. Extremely intelligent. Average size. The guy makes things happen and racks the points. And you can't teach that.
Filip Chytil's a bit the same way. The only concern that I have with him is that the puck doesn't really follow him around. He was, IMO, Czech's best centerman. He played a 200 ft game and displayed superior playmaking ability, outproducing Necas despite Necas being triple shifted. But there were large portions of games where he didn't really get to touch the puck, and there were times you wish he'd move his feet more. A bit like Galchenyuk, actually.

However, while I normally feel as though age is a bit of a copout when comparing prospects, Chytil is 10 days away from the cutoff for 2018 eligibility. He's more than 9 months younger than Vaakanainen, for example. There's no way that's not significant at their age.

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04-22-2017, 06:02 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Filip Chytil's a bit the same way. The only concern that I have with him is that the puck doesn't really follow him around. He was, IMO, Czech's best centerman. He played a 200 ft game and displayed superior playmaking ability, outproducing Necas despite Necas being triple shifted. But there were large portions of games where he didn't really get to touch the puck, and there were times you wish he'd move his feet more. A bit like Galchenyuk, actually.

However, while I normally feel as though age is a bit of a copout when comparing prospects, Chytil is 10 days away from the cutoff for 2018 eligibility. He's more than 9 months younger than Vaakanainen, for example. There's no way that's not significant at their age.
I'm a sucker for late birth dates. Not sure how it sounds....but that's how it is for me. . It's EXTREMELY important for me. I didn't know he was a September 5th born prospect. Chytil is right up there then.

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04-22-2017, 09:05 AM
  #118
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I'm a sucker for late birth dates. Not sure how it sounds....but that's how it is for me. . It's EXTREMELY important for me. I didn't know he was a September 5th born prospect. Chytil is right up there then.
The mid life crisis came a-calling Snakester ? I would know, I'm getting there too !

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04-22-2017, 09:32 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
He actually posted a reply to this very criticism in the prospects main board thread. I don't really get why his list is attracting so much criticism this year. Probably just because he used to be a bit of a meanie.

In short, he changed his rankings based on his viewings of the players, their recent performances, and the opinions of NHL scouts (apparently not just Timmins). That's a lot more than you can say than for any of us.

Just take his opinion of Heiskanen for example. In that mainboard thread one of the first posts was saying ''I think you mean Liljegren for #3.'' Now, to anyone who's been paying attention, that's just ridiculous. But I guess he should have Liljegren ahead of Heiskanen because ''it's just one tournament.'' Bollocks. The big finns have been the best players in this tournament and it hasn't even been close. Is he supposed to not use that information or something?
This is a post i wrote in regards to Heiskanen, i've had him ahead of Liljegren since January. Don't see how anyone who's knowledgeable about the game could have Liljegren ahead of Heiskanen with how Heiskanen was being used in the U20's and the direction their seasons were going in their respective pro leagues. Now that Heiskanen got his breakout tourney at the U18's and Liljegren faltered it's easy to put Heiskanen ahead of him.

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I've had him in my top 7 ever since the u20's , he's currently 6th on my list (ahead of Liljegren).
I gave this report on Liljegren back in January when he was still an overhyped prospects.

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I'll play the devil's advocate here and list a few concerns i have with him. I'm really not sure how well his defensive game will translate into the NHL. Firstly i find that he's a bit scared to take a hit in order to make a play, not sure how well he'll do vs big/skilled NHL'ers. A lot of the top SHL players are smaller skilled guys and he does well defending against them (namely players like Broc Little and Garrett Roe etc.).

Defensively he has a good active stick against oncoming pressure, once he has the puck tho he sometimes makes odd breakout decisions/risky plays. In the o-zone he's a bit of a puck hog but of course he does have a very good/accurate wrister, so i guess that's somewhat understandable. His strengths are his skating, hands and wrist shot, his passing isn't as crisp as i'd like it to be for a premier offensive dman (but of course this isn't a weakness).

I'm mostly worried about how well he'll hold up defensively in the NHL, that's a pretty big concern for me.

For example take this play, he's the last man back on their PP and he tries to deke a player 1v1, ends up losing the puck which leads to a goal (@ 14:25).
And again at @17:45, theyre on a PP, player comes from behind the net in a 1v2 situation, Liljegren makes a soft defensive play by trying to go for the puck (and he does this very awkwardly) instead of taking his body, he walks around him and gets a great scoring chance.



What i do like is that he's getting matched up against top offensive players and he does well vs small offensive players (like i've mentioned). I also like that he's getting a ton of experience playing against men on big international rinks, he covers the ice really well with his skating so that'll just be another advantage for him once he comes over (less taxing to move up and down the ice which he does a fair bit off).


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04-22-2017, 09:42 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
He actually posted a reply to this very criticism in the prospects main board thread. I don't really get why his list is attracting so much criticism this year. Probably just because he used to be a bit of a meanie.

In short, he changed his rankings based on his viewings of the players, their recent performances, and the opinions of NHL scouts (apparently not just Timmins). That's a lot more than you can say than for any of us.

Just take his opinion of Heiskanen for example. In that mainboard thread one of the first posts was saying ''I think you mean Liljegren for #3.'' Now, to anyone who's been paying attention, that's just ridiculous. But I guess he should have Liljegren ahead of Heiskanen because ''it's just one tournament.'' Bollocks. The big finns have been the best players in this tournament and it hasn't even been close. Is he supposed to not use that information or something?
edit: w/e i dont wanna keep bashing on the guy, i'm just not a fan of his extreme stances

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04-22-2017, 09:58 AM
  #121
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Watched Steelheads vs Petes game 1 the other day, and Tippett (along with Michael McLeod) was easily the most dangerous player on the ice. The guy has a VERY heavy and accurate shot. Seems to make something happen every time he touches the puck.

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04-22-2017, 10:27 AM
  #122
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Toropchenko has a non-stop motor. Really impressing me with his size/skill/work ethic combo. Where is he projected to go?

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04-22-2017, 10:42 AM
  #123
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Isn't the draft formula the finalists; then conference finalists, regular season divisional winners (ie: us) and then everyone else? Or am I wrong?


The Habs won the Atlantic division. I'm pretty sure the lowest they will select is 24th.

Let's just say the Rangers and Pittsburgh make it to the Eastern Conference Finals. And forthe west, let's say it's the Oilers and Nashville. And then let's say it's a Rangers/Nashville cup finals, with Nashville winning.

The final draft rankings would look like this:


22. Minnesta [106 points]
23. Columbus [108 points]
24. Montreal [Atlantic winner/103 points]
25. Anaheim [Pacific winner/105 points]
26. Chicago [Central division winner/ 109 points]
27. Washington [President's trophy winner/118 points]
28. Edmonton [Conf. finals]
29. Pittsburgh [Conf. finals; higher points]
30. NY Rangers [runner-up]
31. Nashville [cup winners]


Because we won our division, this would be the best possible outcome.

Again, I could be wrong, but I'm going by what's on wikipedia:

1. The teams that did not qualify for the playoffs the previous season (picks 1–15)
2. The teams that made the playoffs in the previous season but did not win either their division in the regular season or play in the Conference Finals (picks 16–23 up to 27)
3. The teams that won their divisions in the previous season but did not play in the Conference Finals (potentially picks 24–27)
4. The teams that lose in Conference Finals (picks 28 and 29)
5. The team that was the runner-up in the Stanley Cup Finals (pick 30)
6. The team that won the Stanley Cup in the previous season (pick 31)




Oh, and as for our pick, I'm warming up to Evan Barratt, as well. He's a Pennsylvania-born kid, so I'd think Pittsburgh -- and especially Philadelphia in the 2nd round wouldn't pass on him. He's not the biggest of players, but he has good numbers and stats, along with having some great IQ. I hope he's in the mix for the Habs's first round selection.

Honestly, considering our position, any one of Robert Thomas (who I think is going in the 10-20 ranger anyhow); Jaret Anderson-Dolan; Filip Chytil; Morgan Frost; Alexei Lipanov or Evan Barratt would be a fine pickup for them.
No, they changed it. I think it became too confusing for everybody.

Stanley Cup winner: 31
SC Finalist: 30
Best regular season team of Final Four loser: 29
Other Final Four loser: 28.

If Habs get eliminated tonight then that means one of Boston, NYR and Ottawa is going to the ECF, so they jump behind Montreal in the draft moving Habs up one spot to 24.

In the west, assuming St. Louis eliminates Minny, one of Nashville or St. Louis is going to the ECF moving the Habs up one spot again to 23rd.

If San Jose or Edmonton can eliminate Anaheim (a tougher job), then Habs move up one spot again to 22.

Like the previous poster wrote: we are either selecting 22-24 (most likely 23rd), or 28-31st (if we get to final four). The one spot where we are not picking is 25th. Columbus will pick in that spot.

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04-22-2017, 10:42 AM
  #124
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Toropchenko has a non-stop motor. Really impressing me with his size/skill/work ethic combo. Where is he projected to go?
Toropchenko has a switch on that motor it seems. I watched him very closely after that USA game. He did nothing against Belarus and Slovakia. Today he's very impressive.

He's good enough when he's on to be interesting, IMO.

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04-22-2017, 10:48 AM
  #125
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Toropchenko has a non-stop motor. Really impressing me with his size/skill/work ethic combo. Where is he projected to go?
He's ranked #21 euro player by the CSS. I don't think he's on any other publication's list, as far as I know at least. He'd be a late round type of pick.

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