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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Seattle Arena discussion, vol. XII

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Old
04-14-2017, 05:59 PM
  #26
gstommylee
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
A team will be secured if they want it. All three groups have inroads.
No kidding it seems they don't understand that. Plus whats not to say hansen will still be the owner of the NBA team that plays in Key arena.

Its just it seems that there can only be one plan and one plan only and any other plan can not exist or it won't get us teams.

Hansen had 4 years (before may 2nd vote) to make sure that the votes were secured to get that street vacation. That didn't happen and now there are 2 legit groups with serious $$$ backing that want to turn Key arena into something that it should have happened back during the 95 renovations.

Of course they are saying its only just for music not basketball or hockey. AEG/OVG only care for music....

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04-14-2017, 06:06 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
No kidding it seems they don't understand that. Plus whats not to say hansen will still be the owner of the NBA team that plays in Key arena.

Its just it seems that there can only be one plan and one plan only and any other plan can not exist or it won't get us teams.

Hansen had 4 years (before may 2nd vote) to make sure that the votes were secured to get that street vacation. That didn't happen and now there are 2 legit groups with serious $$$ backing that want to turn Key arena into something that it should have happened back during the 95 renovations.

Of course they are saying its only just for music not basketball or hockey. AEG/OVG only care for music....
Where are you hearing its just for music? They have announced NBA/NHL capacities for each proposal for Key. I have not heard that, doesn't mean it hasn't been said though. They are also expanding the footprint of floor to accommodate NHL by going deeper or expanding to the south.

As for Hansen I was just going to ask that maybe he might be the NBA owner at Key.

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04-14-2017, 06:08 PM
  #28
gstommylee
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Originally Posted by nwhockeyfan View Post
Where are you hearing its just for music? They have announced NBA/NHL capacities for each proposal for Key. I have not heard that, doesn't mean it hasn't been said though.

As for Hansen I was just going to ask that maybe he might be the NBA owner at Key.
Some of the fanbase and comments from KJR. No kidding. IF it was just for concerts and not sports then why did they design it like that. You don't do 500m+ just for a concert/music event center.

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04-14-2017, 06:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Some of the fanbase and comments from KJR. No kidding. IF it was just for concerts and not sports then why did they design it like that. You don't do 500m+ just for a concert/music event center.
Exactly. If it was just for music they could actually reduce the capacity to make room for the additional loading docks needed.

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04-14-2017, 07:22 PM
  #30
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And another thing is being ignored that why there isn't any much ownership groups out there for a NBA team cause there is no team available. If NBA decides to expand for example some groups are going to look at that arena plan at Key arena that's free no cost to them with serious interest.

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04-15-2017, 12:50 PM
  #31
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I did find this regarding the music. You were right gstommylee.

http://www.king5.com/mb/amp/news/loc...enue/431455052

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04-15-2017, 04:44 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by nwhockeyfan View Post
I did find this regarding the music. You were right gstommylee.

http://www.king5.com/mb/amp/news/loc...enue/431455052
Here's the thing though while AVG or OVG wait for teams where exactly are they going to get a return of investment music concerts and other non sport events.

People cry and whine how they are going to screw us or they don't care about teams. Thats not true. For a 500 to 560m investment with no current teams is a huge gamble and the only way they can even attempt to break even is getting as many non NHL or NBA events aka Music dates booked at the arena as much as they possible can.

You don't spend that kind of money if all you care is music music and music.

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04-15-2017, 04:54 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Here's the thing though while AVG or OVG wait for teams where exactly are they going to get a return of investment music concerts and other non sport events.

People cry and whine how they are going to screw us or they don't care about teams. Thats not true. For a 500 to 560m investment with no current teams is a huge gamble and the only way they can even attempt to break even is getting as many non NHL or NBA events aka Music dates booked at the arena as much as they possible can.

You don't spend that kind of money if all you care is music music and music.
Tommy,

Just what kind of lease agreement do you think an NHL team would have with OVG at at new "Seattle Arena"? That's a privately funded place. OVG, for example, can't afford to lose to money on the place while paying back their investment.

That means either....

1- The NHL/NBA team won't get anything that's not game-night revenue, or
2- The Teams get their revenue, but the place is booked to the uttermost with everything else, and that allows OVG to pay off their debt.

Look, it's crazy what's happening there. Crazy. Privately funded arena??? Wow. Doesn't matter if it's Hansen, or either of these. All of them make it hard for the Pro teams to come out in the black.

I know everyone there is quite hopeful. But, I will tell you this: Under the current arrangement, the only Arena plan there that makes sense is Sonics owned by Hansen in SoDo. That's the ONLY place I would put my money.

Now, I grant you this: If, and only if, and NHL-ownership group gets in on the private funding for a new Seattle Arena, and the arrangement can be advantageous to the team, which therefore owns part of the arena operating rights, then there is a CHANCE, but only a chance, to make it.

Otherwise, for all the excitement you have going there, it still looks like a tough go to me.

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04-15-2017, 05:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
Tommy,

Just what kind of lease agreement do you think an NHL team would have with OVG at at new "Seattle Arena"? That's a privately funded place. OVG, for example, can't afford to lose to money on the place while paying back their investment.

That means either....

1- The NHL/NBA team won't get anything that's not game-night revenue, or
2- The Teams get their revenue, but the place is booked to the uttermost with everything else, and that allows OVG to pay off their debt.

Look, it's crazy what's happening there. Crazy. Privately funded arena??? Wow. Doesn't matter if it's Hansen, or either of these. All of them make it hard for the Pro teams to come out in the black.

I know everyone there is quite hopeful. But, I will tell you this: Under the current arrangement, the only Arena plan there that makes sense is Sonics owned by Hansen in SoDo. That's the ONLY place I would put my money.

Now, I grant you this: If, and only if, and NHL-ownership group gets in on the private funding for a new Seattle Arena, and the arrangement can be advantageous to the team, which therefore owns part of the arena operating rights, then there is a CHANCE, but only a chance, to make it.

Otherwise, for all the excitement you have going there, it still looks like a tough go to me.
And is that going to do us any good if the NHL wants its actually built and NBA isn't going to expand.

OVG last i heard would do a 50/25 NHL /25 NBA revenue split. Please consider that the arena cost is already taken care. The NHL group only cost they have to handle is the cost of the team.

And here another thing to consider how is sodo arena actually going to be necessary better $$ making wise if A) NHL group has to help fund it B) if Hansen comes to an unreasonable split on revenue.

So far hansen has no NHL investor. ANd he said that recently that he doesn't have one.

Clearly the better chance of us actually getting a NHL team is not sodo arena its actually one of AEG or OVG arena key arena remodel cause its actually going to be built on spec not wait for teams that may not actually come or want arena built on spec.

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04-15-2017, 07:51 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
And is that going to do us any good if the NHL wants its actually built and NBA isn't going to expand.

OVG last i heard would do a 50/25 NHL /25 NBA revenue split. Please consider that the arena cost is already taken care. The NHL group only cost they have to handle is the cost of the team.

And here another thing to consider how is sodo arena actually going to be necessary better $$ making wise if A) NHL group has to help fund it B) if Hansen comes to an unreasonable split on revenue.

So far hansen has no NHL investor. ANd he said that recently that he doesn't have one.

Clearly the better chance of us actually getting a NHL team is not sodo arena its actually one of AEG or OVG arena key arena remodel cause its actually going to be built on spec not wait for teams that may not actually come or want arena built on spec.
I think I am following you here. I have said for a long time that I thought that SoDo with Hansen owning the land is a no-go for the NHL. And, I have tried to explain my reasoning, and it's basically what you just said:
Hansen owns the land. It's HIS project. He is NOT going to give an NHL-guy a favorable lease, when what he really wants is an NBA team, and the NBA team gets all the goodies. Even in the event that an NHL guy comes in on the building cost, I don't think Hansen does the project unless, eventually, HIS NBA team gets the favorable part of the incomes.

For that cause, I agree. If you really want NHL in Seattle, you'd better hope that SCC decides to go along with either AEG or OVG.

You are claiming that OVG is offering the NBA and NHL a 50/25/25 revenue split. I find that hard to believe, when OVG has all the risk involved in building the place in the beginning, but I suppose that 8M/yr naming rights for 35 years is a lot of money, too, and that 8M/yr (I just picked that number at random, but it would be a high number) wouldn't be there without NHL/NBA.

Without the 50/25/25 there is NO WAY that it pencils out for an NHL team. No. Way. They would only have game night revenues, and that's not enough.

So, let's ignore the 50/25/25 for a minute.....

SoDo- NHL. No way.
SODO NBA. Sure. That's Hansen's baby.
Seattle Center NHL without a revenue split? No way.
Seattle Center NBA without a revenue split? No way.
Those are all money losers.

It's possible. Maybe. If OVG or AEG offers a favorable split, that NBA or NHL could make it at Seattle Center.

Like you said, that's what you have to hope for.

I know that many there think that the traffic situation makes SODO the better location, and I agree. But, the economics seem to suggest to me that, if you really want NHL, then LQA is the only location that works.

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04-15-2017, 08:04 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
I know that many there think that the traffic situation makes SODO the better location, and I agree. But, the economics seem to suggest to me that, if you really want NHL, then LQA is the only location that works.
The fact is they'll have "traffic" no matter what.... is it just me or is this conversation about traffic INSANE?

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04-15-2017, 10:49 PM
  #37
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I think I am following you here. I have said for a long time that I thought that SoDo with Hansen owning the land is a no-go for the NHL. And, I have tried to explain my reasoning, and it's basically what you just said:
Hansen owns the land. It's HIS project. He is NOT going to give an NHL-guy a favorable lease, when what he really wants is an NBA team, and the NBA team gets all the goodies. Even in the event that an NHL guy comes in on the building cost, I don't think Hansen does the project unless, eventually, HIS NBA team gets the favorable part of the incomes.

For that cause, I agree. If you really want NHL in Seattle, you'd better hope that SCC decides to go along with either AEG or OVG.

You are claiming that OVG is offering the NBA and NHL a 50/25/25 revenue split. I find that hard to believe, when OVG has all the risk involved in building the place in the beginning, but I suppose that 8M/yr naming rights for 35 years is a lot of money, too, and that 8M/yr (I just picked that number at random, but it would be a high number) wouldn't be there without NHL/NBA.

Without the 50/25/25 there is NO WAY that it pencils out for an NHL team. No. Way. They would only have game night revenues, and that's not enough.

So, let's ignore the 50/25/25 for a minute.....

SoDo- NHL. No way.
SODO NBA. Sure. That's Hansen's baby.
Seattle Center NHL without a revenue split? No way.
Seattle Center NBA without a revenue split? No way.
Those are all money losers.

It's possible. Maybe. If OVG or AEG offers a favorable split, that NBA or NHL could make it at Seattle Center.

Like you said, that's what you have to hope for.

I know that many there think that the traffic situation makes SODO the better location, and I agree. But, the economics seem to suggest to me that, if you really want NHL, then LQA is the only location that works.
OVG said that themselves that it would be a 50/25/25 split. The NHL group who ever it'll be doesn't even have to pay for the arena which is a bigger deal than it would be in sodo which NHL group would have to help pay for the arena and pay for the team. Like wise for the NBA.

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04-16-2017, 04:54 AM
  #38
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OVG will be asking for ownership equity in the 2 teams too.

If I heard his last interview correctly, Hansen would have the NHL be part of the arena ownership group, so if that is the case, then they would get a percentage of the revenues too

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04-16-2017, 07:45 AM
  #39
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The fact is they'll have "traffic" no matter what.... is it just me or is this conversation about traffic INSANE?
Well, I'll give that to you, K, the traffic discussion is, well, a broken record. But it is a fundamental part of this discussion as the Key is situated near the so-called "Mercer Mess" and traffic backups are a daily occurrence on that street in the SLU tech district in both directions. Fans will not want to sit in that kind of traffic to get to and from the arena. SoDo, on the other hand, is right at the end of I-90, so folks will be able to get to and from I-5 more quickly.

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04-16-2017, 08:47 AM
  #40
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Well, I'll give that to you, K, the traffic discussion is, well, a broken record. But it is a fundamental part of this discussion as the Key is situated near the so-called "Mercer Mess" and traffic backups are a daily occurrence on that street in the SLU tech district in both directions. Fans will not want to sit in that kind of traffic to get to and from the arena. SoDo, on the other hand, is right at the end of I-90, so folks will be able to get to and from I-5 more quickly.
I can honestly say that an arena in City Center as opposed to Sodo will definitely be a factor for me on games I would decide to go to, as someone who would be coming from the South and East of Seattle. Weekends would probably be the games I would go to unless, of course, it was the Penguins. And it would be all about the traffic and parking.

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04-16-2017, 09:21 AM
  #41
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OVG will be asking for ownership equity in the 2 teams too.

If I heard his last interview correctly, Hansen would have the NHL be part of the arena ownership group, so if that is the case, then they would get a percentage of the revenues too
That would really surprise me and be against the NHL's past arena building business model but........ it may be a better option than funding losses for a franchise elsewhere in the league.

Would the NHL funding an arena in Seattle not open a can of worms in markets where franchises are asking for public monies?

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04-16-2017, 02:20 PM
  #42
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I think I am following you here. I have said for a long time that I thought that SoDo with Hansen owning the land is a no-go for the NHL. And, I have tried to explain my reasoning, and it's basically what you just said:
Hansen owns the land. It's HIS project. He is NOT going to give an NHL-guy a favorable lease, when what he really wants is an NBA team, and the NBA team gets all the goodies. Even in the event that an NHL guy comes in on the building cost, I don't think Hansen does the project unless, eventually, HIS NBA team gets the favorable part of the incomes.
In the podcast that was posted in the last thread he basically said an NHL team would pay half the cost of the arena and be half owner.

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04-16-2017, 08:23 PM
  #43
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http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...trademark.html

NHL acquires Seattle Metropolitans trademark rights in Canada

Doubt it is related to a potential Seattle franchise though.

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04-16-2017, 08:32 PM
  #44
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http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...trademark.html

NHL acquires Seattle Metropolitans trademark rights in Canada

Doubt it is related to a potential Seattle franchise though.
This was discussed upthread, this news broke on Friday. It does elicit this reaction, though, from me.....

It is a head-scratcher, that's for sure.

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04-17-2017, 05:57 AM
  #45
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Levine again...

http://q13fox.com/2017/04/16/comment...rn-to-seattle/

Aaron Levine's latest spiel on this subject, last night on the QItUp Sports on Q13. It's a mostly pro-NBA thing this time, but he does offer some nuggets for NHL to Seattle supporters. It's worthy to note that the timing of this thing coincides with an effort going on today, grass-roots based, where fans are asked to call SCC members and voice their support for either SoDo or Key Arena or both. Personally, I would support what councilman Rob Johnson has indicated he's interested in doing - allowing both projects to take place and let the market sort it out. PM me if you want a link to a website talking about today's grassroots efforts.

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04-17-2017, 10:42 AM
  #46
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Breaking news worth keeping an eye on...



Last edited by snovalleyhockeyfan: 04-17-2017 at 11:16 AM. Reason: updated info
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04-17-2017, 12:02 PM
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http://seattlechannel.org/watch-live

The council is scheduled to hear presentations on the two KeyArena proposals at 10:30am/1:30pm Eastern, you can watch that live at the above link. But I'm guessing the media will be up at McGinn's house instead.....

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04-17-2017, 01:37 PM
  #48
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Updating the update, the former mayor has infact now made that announcement, and when quizzed by Daniels on the arena issue, he had these comments:

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04-17-2017, 01:52 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
Updating the update, the former mayor has infact now made that announcement, and when quizzed by Daniels on the arena issue, he had these comments:

so it appears that if McGinn returns to that seat, and what he said about the Sonics, as of now, the NBA/Silver has yet to be convinced about the Sonics return, and how that agreement Bennett signed affects the history of the Sonics, Bennett left the name only as I recollect.

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04-17-2017, 02:07 PM
  #50
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so it appears that if McGinn returns to that seat, and what he said about the Sonics, as of now, the NBA/Silver has yet to be convinced about the Sonics return, and how that agreement Bennett signed affects the history of the Sonics, Bennett left the name only as I recollect.
The settlement between Seattle and the owners of the Thunder:

Quote:
6. Seattle Sonics/Supersonics Team Name(s), History, Memorabilia, Colors, Intellectual Property Rights. PBC agrees that it will not use the "Seattle Sonics/Supersonics" team name or any logos, symbols, designs, trade dress (including, but not limited to, team colors) or other indicia associated with the Seattle Sonics/Supersonics (the "Intellectual Property") for purposes of identifying its NBA team in game competition, marketing, promotional or other similar purposes following relocation of the team to Oklahoma City, other than as permitted in this Section 6. PBC further agrees that if (i) the NBA grants approval for a new NBA team to be located in Seattle and play its games in a renovated Key Arena, (ii) the pending litigation between PBC and the former owners of the Sonics is fully and finally resolved, and (iii) PBC has permanently relocated its NBA team to Oklahoma City, then, following the NBA approval referenced in subparagraph (i) above and upon request of the owner of the new NBA team to be located in Seattle, it will transfer at no cost all right, title and interest in the Intellectual Property to such new owner, such rights being subject to NBA rules, agreements, and approvals. PBC further agrees that if an expansion team is approved by the NBA within the next five years to play in a renovated KeyArena, then the owner of such team and the PBC are each free to use and refer to the Sonics' history (e.g., statistics, player histories and records) during the NBA seasons prior to the date of this Settlement that the Sonics played in Seattle. PBC further agrees, to the extent requested by a new Seattle team owner, it will transfer at no cost the team's banners, trophies and retired jerseys to such owner, provided that such owner acknowledges that the memorabilia relates to a "shared history" between PBC and the team and that PBC retains the right to create and display duplicate copies of such memorabilia. The trophies, banners, and retired jerseys, together with other memorabilia identified by the City and acceptable to PBC, will remain in Seattle in the custody of the Museum of History and Industry ("MOHAI'') or such other custodian acceptable to the Parties.
IOW, the team name, colors, and logos all can go back to Seattle if an expansion team is founded there to play in a renovated Key Arena. The team history for the purpose of recordkeeping will remain in OKC, because the 5 year limit has passed. It's not clear to me whether the 5 year limit applies to the trophies, banners, and retired numbers, because of how it's separated out; I presume the new owner would be able to get those back, since it's in its own paragraph. Also, they're already in Seattle, so I can't imagine OKC would care that much.

The catch here is that all of this applies specifically to an expansion team in a renovated arena. SoDo might have an awkward hurdle there; they could conceivably build their arena, get the league to agree to give them a team... then have Bennett be a spiteful d*** and say that since SoDo isn't a renovated KeyArena, they won't give them the rights to the name, logo, and colors.

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