HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Will the Jets be better than the Leafs next season?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-14-2017, 09:13 PM
  #51
heretik27
Registered User
 
heretik27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,534
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeseeing View Post
Injuries again... thought Chevy drafted and developed the best organizational depth.
Absolutely hate the injuries excuse.
Until we rid our selves of this front office it will be the same issues every year
We have the depth, however it's primarily young players in need of experience themselves. Losing guys like Frolik and Stempniak sucked, but we had Matthias brought in this year to help add a bit more of a veteran presence to the depth on the team. Matthias got injured, so they continued on with the youth movement. The kids won't be young forever, they'll get experience and become better players. Until they're ready to be a part of the solution long term he'll keep bringing in part timers like Frolik, Stempniak, Matthias, and Raffl to support.

You need to understand that this team wasn't competing for a cup this year and their timeline for that is probably a few years away. Chevy isn't going to go out of his way to change that for short term gain when he's been given the green light to take the patient approach. Scheifele's just hitting his stride now, think of all the talent we've drafted in the years since that have yet to come close to reaching their potential.

heretik27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2017, 09:43 PM
  #52
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HannuJ View Post
i disagree.
mangames lost to injuries minus loser points equals two teams that would be a lot closer to each other in the standings.

unless the Leafs sign Shattenkirk, their D is still below average. like, laughably below average.
TOR: 51.25 score-adjusted Corsi%...

Also, I think people over exaggerate Toronto's weakness on the back-end.
Gardiner was 39th in WAR, Zaitsev 62nd, Rielly 85th... That's three top 90 defenders.
Compare that to Trouba 3rd, Morrissey 66th, and Byfuglien 88th.

Gardiner is not elite like Trouba has been, and really is more of a fringe #1 that bonafide #1, but the Jets really pull ahead more due to depth with the remainign three thanks to Enstrom and Postma.


Last edited by garret9: 04-14-2017 at 10:39 PM.
garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2017, 10:31 PM
  #53
Mbraunm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougieSmail View Post
On paper, the defence corps the Leafs iced last night was arguably inferior to the Jets blue line. But watching the Leafs last night I saw a tenacious team with players mostly consistently in position and doing a good job keeping the middle of the ice defended in their own zone.
Coaching?
Yes-the major difference is the vast gap between Babcock and Maurice. On paper, our defense corps is definitely more talented, but Babcock's systems more than make up for this discrepancy.

Mbraunm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2017, 10:38 PM
  #54
JetBlue420
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eagle Creek Drive
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,502
vCash: 500
Leafs were relatively healthy this year and 2 teams in their division who were good last year struggled in Tampa and Florida and even the NYI and Carolina In the conference.

I feel Toronto will miss the playoffs next year. I think injuries will catch up to them. To be honest they were relatively healthy and got in on lose points barely beating out teams who did have significant injuries and other issues in Tampa and NYI and even Florida.

Jets will be better.

JetBlue420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-15-2017, 12:11 AM
  #55
Zhamnov5GoalGame
Registered User
 
Zhamnov5GoalGame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posts: 1,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
Leafs were relatively healthy this year and 2 teams in their division who were good last year struggled in Tampa and Florida and even the NYI and Carolina In the conference.

I feel Toronto will miss the playoffs next year. I think injuries will catch up to them. To be honest they were relatively healthy and got in on lose points barely beating out teams who did have significant injuries and other issues in Tampa and NYI and even Florida.

Jets will be better.
I don't think we can say that the Leafs will go backwards next year. Their young talent will get better. Plus they may make a move to really improve their team this summer.

The Jets have a chance to be the most exciting team in hockey next year but that may not translate into a winning team.

We will hope for the best.

As for the loser point thing... I know people dislike the format but those are the rules and saying them losing in OT is equal to us losing in regulation is not true. Some better luck in the shootout and the Leafs have 2 or 3 more wins right there.

We need to get better at this loser point thing!!!

Zhamnov5GoalGame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-15-2017, 12:24 AM
  #56
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 27,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeseeing View Post
Injuries again... thought Chevy drafted and developed the best organizational depth.
Absolutely hate the injuries excuse.
Until we rid our selves of this front office it will be the same issues every year
Tampa has great depth. Missed the playoffs due to injuries. No NHL team can succeed with more than double the NHL average in significant injuries.

Whileee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-15-2017, 12:53 AM
  #57
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,539
vCash: 500
For some fun stuff on man-games-lost, this is a good resource:
garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-15-2017, 01:25 AM
  #58
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 27,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
For some fun stuff on man-games-lost, this is a good resource:
It's a good resource.

Pitt was really the outlier this year.

As I've noted before, saying the significant injuries are an "excuse" is like saying that not having good enough players is an "excuse". If you have to replace your better players with lesser players, it will affect results. The Leafs had almost no significant injuries this season, and it seems very likely that they would have been behind the Jets in many categories if the injury situation had been reversed. It's not an "excuse", it's just logical.

Whileee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 09:42 AM
  #59
broinwhyteridge
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,787
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbraunm View Post
I believe there is a chance. The Jets were hampered by a poor schedule, many injuries and suspect coaching. On the other hand everything seemed to go perfect for the Leafs. It seems that we have more depth and seasoned tal not. Is is possible that we could surpass them next season?
Not a chance in my opinion. They're getting a crash course in what it takes right now... Chevy and Maurice require at least one more year of bumbling before finding the nut like a proverbial blind squirrel.

broinwhyteridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 10:01 AM
  #60
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 27,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broinwhyteridge View Post
Not a chance in my opinion. They're getting a crash course in what it takes right now... Chevy and Maurice require at least one more year of bumbling before finding the nut like a proverbial blind squirrel.
If Hellebuyck had played up to his rookie standards and the Jets had the same level of injuries as the Leafs they would have out-performed this season, in my view.

Whileee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 10:14 AM
  #61
D1G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 345
vCash: 500
i don't think we will. We will add more rookies next year which will hurt us defensively. And we will not get one of the top net minders. With the additions of a couple rookies on forward. Poolman on D and a back up for Helly. I don't feel we surpass the leafs. Their progression is at a much faster pace then the jets. We build slow and let it happen naturally. The leafs go out and get top goalies. they also have a gm and a coach with Winning pedigrees. Things just don't change over night

D1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 10:17 AM
  #62
Rambokala
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,993
vCash: 50
No. The Leafs youth knows now what it takes to get into the playoffs, and they know what it's like to play there. They'll be a step ahead for few years.

Rambokala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 10:38 AM
  #63
ps241
.915 please Steve
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,619
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambokala View Post
No. The Leafs youth knows now what it takes to get into the playoffs, and they know what it's like to play there. They'll be a step ahead for few years.
IMO the leafs are better coached and better managed but the talent pools are close so this will probably be two teams on similar trajectories. I would not put too much stock in one season sample sizes in this league though. At the end of the day Toronto made it to the playoffs this season and we didn't. We have one reason for missing and allot of excuses.....they got it done so at this point they have the bragging rights.

ps241 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 10:41 AM
  #64
JETthro
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 12
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by D1G View Post
i don't think we will. We will add more rookies next year which will hurt us defensively. And we will not get one of the top net minders. With the additions of a couple rookies on forward. Poolman on D and a back up for Helly. I don't feel we surpass the leafs. Their progression is at a much faster pace then the jets. We build slow and let it happen naturally. The leafs go out and get top goalies. they also have a gm and a coach with Winning pedigrees. Things just don't change over night
Yeah cause starting rookies hurt the leafs too right? People are overrating the leafs big time here, a healthy d and average netminder its jets in 5.. didnt we sweep the season series with half a dcore?

JETthro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 11:26 AM
  #65
Couchcaptain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 213
vCash: 500
Yeah, Leafs have pretty mediocre overall roster with some great forward rookies, but they have solid goaltending and top of the line coaching.
It makes a ton of difference.

Couchcaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 11:27 AM
  #66
Weezeric
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,001
vCash: 500
If the leafs don't get a fluke deflection against the wbs penguins at the end of the year, they're out of the playoffs with no significant injuries...

Weezeric is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 11:36 AM
  #67
tbcwpg
Registered User
 
tbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
TOR: 51.25 score-adjusted Corsi%...

Also, I think people over exaggerate Toronto's weakness on the back-end.
Gardiner was 39th in WAR, Zaitsev 62nd, Rielly 85th... That's three top 90 defenders.
Compare that to Trouba 3rd, Morrissey 66th, and Byfuglien 88th.

Gardiner is not elite like Trouba has been, and really is more of a fringe #1 that bonafide #1, but the Jets really pull ahead more due to depth with the remainign three thanks to Enstrom and Postma.
They are basically the same Jets team that made the playoffs two years ago. Decent Corsi sneaking in on the loser point.

tbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 11:50 AM
  #68
D1G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
They are basically the same Jets team that made the playoffs two years ago. Decent Corsi sneaking in on the loser point.
I would have to disagree on them being the same as the jets team that made the playoffs. I view them completely differently. Way more upside.

If Chevy was the gm of the leafs. Do you feel he would bring another youth movement after this year ?

D1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 12:03 PM
  #69
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Couchcaptain View Post
Yeah, Leafs have pretty mediocre overall roster with some great forward rookies, but they have solid goaltending and top of the line coaching.
It makes a ton of difference
.
Without a top notch #1 goaltender the Jets will never make a step forward.

If Maurice coached the Leafs he would likely try to develop Matt Martin into a #1 PP unit net presence. In fact, he would likely have him and Boyle out there together while Mathews was stapled to the bench.

blues10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 04:13 PM
  #70
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 27,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Without a top notch #1 goaltender the Jets will never make a step forward.

If Maurice coached the Leafs he would likely try to develop Matt Martin into a #1 PP unit net presence. In fact, he would likely have him and Boyle out there together while Mathews was stapled to the bench.
Actually, I think that Maurice's bigger problem on the PP has been using Wheeler on the half wall, and sometimes Perreault has been ineffective there. Wheeler just isn't a natural passer and playmaker, and his shot is only average.

Whileee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 04:48 PM
  #71
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
They are basically the same Jets team that made the playoffs two years ago. Decent Corsi sneaking in on the loser point.
Is it really a negative thing to Toronto that they lost more shoot outs than we'd normally expect?

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 07:20 PM
  #72
tbcwpg
Registered User
 
tbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Is it really a negative thing to Toronto that they lost more shoot outs than we'd normally expect?
I don't think it's negative - just like the 2014-15 Jets, they managed to squeeze points out of games instead of losing in regulation. I was comparing the Jets then to the Leafs this year, I don't think it's that outlandish to say that there are a lot of similarities and this year isn't an indicator of success in future years. The Jets had a mix of youth and "vets" similar to Toronto this year.

tbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 07:49 PM
  #73
JetsUK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 757
vCash: 500
It may be close, but no. Jets have some elite talent but I don't see PoMo as a comparable to Babcock, and their front office is nowhere as aggressive as the Shanamen now, and as we saw this year, Chevy and Company are slow to adjust course midstream.

When I think about the Jets management I'm reminded of the highway signs produced by the last NDP government: "Steady growth. Good jobs," a steady-as-she-goes homage to mediocrity and the status quo that I see reflected in the stay the course/it's a process lines trotted out regularly by Chevy (and now PoMO). We're good enough. We'll improve, incrementally, etc etc. I hate to say it, but I can easily see the Leafs org leaving us in their dust.

So speaks a disappointed fan watching other teams once again in the playoffs.

JetsUK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 08:06 PM
  #74
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
I don't think it's negative - just like the 2014-15 Jets, they managed to squeeze points out of games instead of losing in regulation. I was comparing the Jets then to the Leafs this year, I don't think it's that outlandish to say that there are a lot of similarities and this year isn't an indicator of success in future years. The Jets had a mix of youth and "vets" similar to Toronto this year.
Gotchya!

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2017, 08:10 PM
  #75
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,539
vCash: 500
One thing I'll say is I was highly disappointed with the shot pace the Jets vs Leafs played.

Both were young teams with rookies playing key spots.

Leafs went full tilt, high event hockey. Jets were one of the lowest shot pace teams in the league.

If Jets are healthier next season, I really hope they make this change.

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.