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Will the Jets be better than the Leafs next season?

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Old
04-16-2017, 08:40 PM
  #76
Sperss1997
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
One thing I'll say is I was highly disappointed with the shot pace the Jets vs Leafs played.

Both were young teams with rookies playing key spots.

Leafs went full tilt, high event hockey. Jets were one of the lowest shot pace teams in the league.

If Jets are healthier next season, I really hope they make this change.
One of Babcocks mantra's.
"Get that puck on the net and good things might happen"

I dont think our best forwards shoot enough. Only unsustainable scoring% gave us two 30+ goal scorers.
How much did our top 6/bottom 6 shoot on the net compared to the teams who made the playoffs??

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04-17-2017, 06:46 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
The only way I care is if we meet in the play-offs next year.

Can we just leave this kind of thing to the many insecure Leaf fans?
This. You only need to worry about the Leafs twice a year, and hope that you have four points to show for it. If you have to face them more than twice, then we have it pretty good.

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Old
04-17-2017, 08:05 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
One thing I'll say is I was highly disappointed with the shot pace the Jets vs Leafs played.

Both were young teams with rookies playing key spots.

Leafs went full tilt, high event hockey. Jets were one of the lowest shot pace teams in the league.

If Jets are healthier next season, I really hope they make this change.
Well let's hope Maurice was watching what the Leafs did and learned. I thought he completely botched it from the get go this past season, misread what he had and tried to force a high octane team to play such a conservative style. At times this year he coached the life out of the Team imo. Let's hope he realizes that with this team a good offense equals a good defense which will lead to more success.

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Old
04-17-2017, 09:00 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
One thing I'll say is I was highly disappointed with the shot pace the Jets vs Leafs played.

Both were young teams with rookies playing key spots.

Leafs went full tilt, high event hockey. Jets were one of the lowest shot pace teams in the league.

If Jets are healthier next season, I really hope they make this change.
This is an interesting observation.

When you break it down by lines was there a real drop off with the Jets third and fourth lines, or did even the top two lines have low shot volumes? I do recall Maurice saying that one of the stylistic changes was that the Jets skilled players were now looking for better scoring opportunities and passing more in the offensive zone. Add that to the endless cycling without shots from the Lowry line and you have a low event situation. I wonder if the Jets will try to alter their style next season and get more shots. I don't think they lack the talent to do so, but they'll need to change their style to do that.

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04-17-2017, 10:04 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
This is an interesting observation.

When you break it down by lines was there a real drop off with the Jets third and fourth lines, or did even the top two lines have low shot volumes? I do recall Maurice saying that one of the stylistic changes was that the Jets skilled players were now looking for better scoring opportunities and passing more in the offensive zone. Add that to the endless cycling without shots from the Lowry line and you have a low event situation. I wonder if the Jets will try to alter their style next season and get more shots. I don't think they lack the talent to do so, but they'll need to change their style to do that.
I think it will take a coaching change to alter the Jets style. They had the talent this past season to do exactly what the leafs did which is create 3 balanced scoring lines but they chose the top six bottom six formula (shut down 3rd throw away face puncher 4th). Not sure Maurice will change he is in love with Adam and will want to play him on the 3rd line come hell or high water and I doubt he moves away from a 3/4 to full time face puncher on his 4th line.

Too bad because we have the racehorses to build a very impressive top 9. The one faint hope is Paul runs Connor on the 3rd line with Lowry and that drives some scoring but I am not holding my breath.

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04-17-2017, 10:09 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Maukkis View Post
This. You only need to worry about the Leafs twice a year, and hope that you have four points to show for it. If you have to face them more than twice, then we have it pretty good.
Aye. The Jets aren't in competition with the Leafs, but the Leafs are one of many young teams looking to turn things around. There are a pile of teams that have been trash since the Jets returned.

Leafs:
Auston Matthews
William Nylander
Mitch Marner
Morgan Rielly

Connor Brown
Joshua Leivo
Nikita Soshnikov
Connor Carrick
Kasperi Kapanen


Carolina:
Sebastian Aho
Elias Lindholm
Victor Rask
Teuvo Teravainen

Jaccob Slavin
Noah Hanifin
Brett Pesce
Brock McGinn
Ryan Murphy


Flames:
Johnny Gaudreau
Sean Monahan
Dougie Hamilton
Matthew Tkachuk

Sam Bennett


Blue Jackets:
Alexander Wennberg
Brandon Saad
Zach Werenski
Seth Jones

John Anderson
Boone Jenner
William Karlsson
Oliver Bjorkstrand
Ryan Murray
Lucas Sedlak
Joonas Korpisalo


Jets:
Mark Scheifele
Patrik Laine
Nikolaj Ehlers
Jacob Trouba
Josh Morrissey

Adam Lowry
Joel Armia
Andrew Copp
Nicolas Petan
Marko Dano


Sabres:
Jack Eichel
Sam Reinhart
Rasmus Ristolainen
Jake McCabe
Zemgus Girgensons

William Carrier


Panthers:
Aleksander Barkov
Vincent Trocheck
Jonathan Huberdeau
Aaron Ekblad
Michael Matheson

Denis Malgin
Jared McCann


Oilers:
Connor McDavid
Leon Draisaitl
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Oscar Klefbom
Adam Larsson

Drake Caggiula
Matthew Benning
Jesse Puljujarvi
Anton Slepyshev
Darnell Nurse

Phoenix and Colorado are bad too, but I didn't want to look at this anymore. BTW, that's regular NHL players drafted since 2011.

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04-17-2017, 10:12 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I think it will take a coaching change to alter the Jets style. They had the talent this past season to do exactly what the leafs did which is create 3 balanced scoring lines but they chose the top six bottom six formula (shut down 3rd throw away face puncher 4th). Not sure Maurice will change he is in love with Adam and will want to play him on the 3rd line come hell or high water and I doubt he moves away from a 3/4 to full time face puncher on his 4th line.

Too bad because we have the racehorses to build a very impressive top 9. The one faint hope is Paul runs Connor on the 3rd line with Lowry and that drives some scoring but I am not holding my breath.
The frustrating thing is watching PoMo design our archaic system, and watch the playoffs year and year, where the teams that win get contributions from all their lines.

Can you imagine the scenario where the Jets are in the playoffs and are in a multiple overtime situation? The top 2 lines will be dead by that point as they'd likely be run into the ground somewhere in the 1st overtime.

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Old
04-17-2017, 10:12 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I think it will take a coaching change to alter the Jets style. They had the talent this past season to do exactly what the leafs did which is create 3 balanced scoring lines but they chose the top six bottom six formula (shut down 3rd throw away face puncher 4th). Not sure Maurice will change he is in love with Adam and will want to play him on the 3rd line come hell or high water and I doubt he moves away from a 3/4 to full time face puncher on his 4th line.

Too bad because we have the racehorses to build a very impressive top 9. The one faint hope is Paul runs Connor on the 3rd line with Lowry and that drives some scoring but I am not holding my breath.
I think we'll see what you wrote in the last paragraph. I don't think having Lowry as 3C is that big of an issue as he does bring some nice things to the table and is capable of finishing in close. If you surround him with talented wingers I think you'd get a pretty effective all around line that wouldn't need to be sheltered. I bigger question I have is with Armia, can he start scoring to the level that you'd think he can with his talent. I think next season is make/brake for him with regards to point production. If he breaks through then you have Lowry taking care of the defense and sitting in front of the net while Connor and Armia do their thing.

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Old
04-17-2017, 10:26 AM
  #84
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I hate this topic title and I hate this discussion. I'm so sick of being compared to the Leafs. I hate the Leafs as much as anyone, but enough is enough already. Just let them do their thing and we will do ours.

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04-17-2017, 10:44 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I think it will take a coaching change to alter the Jets style. They had the talent this past season to do exactly what the leafs did which is create 3 balanced scoring lines but they chose the top six bottom six formula (shut down 3rd throw away face puncher 4th). Not sure Maurice will change he is in love with Adam and will want to play him on the 3rd line come hell or high water and I doubt he moves away from a 3/4 to full time face puncher on his 4th line.

Too bad because we have the racehorses to build a very impressive top 9. The one faint hope is Paul runs Connor on the 3rd line with Lowry and that drives some scoring but I am not holding my breath.
We have the horses to build a very impressive top 12, even after losing a pretty good forward to LV.

Connor - Petan - Armia
Matthias - Lowry - Dano
Is as good a bottom 6 as there is. Or, at least potentially it is. And I haven't found a space for Copp yet. He has certainly shown that he can play in the NHL.

If we just assume the simplest and most obvious path we go 4+4+1 and lose Lowry. Copp takes that spot. I'm not pushing that solution, just tying up loose ends. We also have 2-3 fringe NHL players in the AHL who could compete for a 4th line or press box spot.

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Old
04-17-2017, 11:02 AM
  #86
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The frustrating thing is watching PoMo design our archaic system, and watch the playoffs year and year, where the teams that win get contributions from all their lines.

Can you imagine the scenario where the Jets are in the playoffs and are in a multiple overtime situation? The top 2 lines will be dead by that point as they'd likely be run into the ground somewhere in the 1st overtime.
To start with the bolded, I've lost the ability to do this. Maurice is not going to change anything. We have heard from posters who have followed Maurice from his days with other teams, and the overwhelming sentiment is, Maurice then = Maurice now. And Maurice is not going anywhere anytime soon.

It was even said in the post-season presser that we can also expect to see pretty much the same roster next year. Maybe some insignificant changes on the 4th line and bottom pairing, and we will probably have another goalie in the mix, although it remains to be seen if that acquisition will lead to overall improvement. In short, I have as little faith that Chevy will/can make the changes that are needed as I have that Maurice will/can make the changes that are needed.

I expect next season to be pretty much a carbon copy of this year. So, to answer the OP question, no. I wonder if we will even be better than LV next year. But I'm fine with that. I'm fine with another early start to the tank thread. Because real change. real improvement can only happen with another completely wasted season that finally forces Chipman to make a move from the top down. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, there is the very real possibility that Chipman will continue on the Friends and Family Plan, and elevate Zinger to the GM position.

Metallica sums up my outlook best in this song:


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04-17-2017, 11:07 AM
  #87
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Well let's hope Maurice was watching what the Leafs did and learned. I thought he completely botched it from the get go this past season, misread what he had and tried to force a high octane team to play such a conservative style. At times this year he coached the life out of the Team imo. Let's hope he realizes that with this team a good offense equals a good defense which will lead to more success.
Bad coaches micromanage. He wants to control every aspect of the game. Just look at the ****ing PP for evidence of this.

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04-17-2017, 11:11 AM
  #88
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Aye. The Jets aren't in competition with the Leafs, but the Leafs are one of many young teams looking to turn things around. There are a pile of teams that have been trash since the Jets returned.

Leafs:
Auston Matthews
William Nylander
Mitch Marner
Morgan Rielly

Connor Brown
Joshua Leivo
Nikita Soshnikov
Connor Carrick
Kasperi Kapanen


Carolina:
Sebastian Aho
Elias Lindholm
Victor Rask
Teuvo Teravainen

Jaccob Slavin
Noah Hanifin
Brett Pesce
Brock McGinn
Ryan Murphy


Flames:
Johnny Gaudreau
Sean Monahan
Dougie Hamilton
Matthew Tkachuk

Sam Bennett


Blue Jackets:
Alexander Wennberg
Brandon Saad
Zach Werenski
Seth Jones

John Anderson
Boone Jenner
William Karlsson
Oliver Bjorkstrand
Ryan Murray
Lucas Sedlak
Joonas Korpisalo


Jets:
Mark Scheifele
Patrik Laine
Nikolaj Ehlers
Jacob Trouba
Josh Morrissey

Adam Lowry
Joel Armia
Andrew Copp
Nicolas Petan
Marko Dano


Sabres:
Jack Eichel
Sam Reinhart
Rasmus Ristolainen
Jake McCabe
Zemgus Girgensons

William Carrier


Panthers:
Aleksander Barkov
Vincent Trocheck
Jonathan Huberdeau
Aaron Ekblad
Michael Matheson

Denis Malgin
Jared McCann


Oilers:
Connor McDavid
Leon Draisaitl
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Oscar Klefbom
Adam Larsson

Drake Caggiula
Matthew Benning
Jesse Puljujarvi
Anton Slepyshev
Darnell Nurse

Phoenix and Colorado are bad too, but I didn't want to look at this anymore. BTW, that's regular NHL players drafted since 2011.
That's an interesting list Truck. Put it in the context of another recent thread here about the Jets being the best drafting team in the NHL. The Jets have drafted well. So have other teams. Whether or not they have done better than those other teams listed will be decided by the play of those teams over the next 10 years.

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Old
04-17-2017, 11:16 AM
  #89
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I think we'll see what you wrote in the last paragraph. I don't think having Lowry as 3C is that big of an issue as he does bring some nice things to the table and is capable of finishing in close. If you surround him with talented wingers I think you'd get a pretty effective all around line that wouldn't need to be sheltered. I bigger question I have is with Armia, can he start scoring to the level that you'd think he can with his talent. I think next season is make/brake for him with regards to point production. If he breaks through then you have Lowry taking care of the defense and sitting in front of the net while Connor and Armia do their thing.
JMO but I don't think Armia gets a lot better as long as he has Lowry as his C. I'm not sure that he is ever going to find his offense but I'm pretty sure that, if he does it will be with a more gifted C than Lowry.

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Old
04-17-2017, 11:17 AM
  #90
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Let's also note that it's not like Babcock has stacked his skill only. He integrates low scoring complimentary physical pieces throughout. Komerov isn't a skilled scorer but his tenacity and grit helps his line. Hayman rode shotgun to Mathews and Nylander all year and put up less points that Lowry. He's no scorer but helps create room.

The JETS are perfectly capable of running 3 strong lines even taking into account Maurice's biases for guys like Lowry. If you surround Lowry with the right skill you will likely get a very effective 2 way third line. Last year he was surrounded by players who don't create well outside of Armia to a lesser extent.

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04-17-2017, 01:04 PM
  #91
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For those that don't like or would rather not participate in this thread (and this goes for any thread on HFBoards, for that matter), you can always explicitly ignore the thread:



Note: I'm talking about the X, not the trash can - most people can't delete threads.

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04-17-2017, 01:18 PM
  #92
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JMO but I don't think Armia gets a lot better as long as he has Lowry as his C. I'm not sure that he is ever going to find his offense but I'm pretty sure that, if he does it will be with a more gifted C than Lowry.
Good point. I think it will depend on the winger. I don't think you necessarily need 3 offensive guys on a line to work.

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04-17-2017, 01:20 PM
  #93
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Let's also note that it's not like Babcock has stacked his skill only. He integrates low scoring complimentary physical pieces throughout. Komerov isn't a skilled scorer but his tenacity and grit helps his line. Hayman rode shotgun to Mathews and Nylander all year and put up less points that Lowry. He's no scorer but helps create room.

The JETS are perfectly capable of running 3 strong lines even taking into account Maurice's biases for guys like Lowry. If you surround Lowry with the right skill you will likely get a very effective 2 way third line. Last year he was surrounded by players who don't create well outside of Armia to a lesser extent.
Good post. Watching Connor fly around with Lowry and Armia did add an element of danger to that line (all be it in a one game sample size).

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04-17-2017, 01:30 PM
  #94
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To start with the bolded, I've lost the ability to do this. Maurice is not going to change anything. We have heard from posters who have followed Maurice from his days with other teams, and the overwhelming sentiment is, Maurice then = Maurice now. And Maurice is not going anywhere anytime soon.

It was even said in the post-season presser that we can also expect to see pretty much the same roster next year. Maybe some insignificant changes on the 4th line and bottom pairing, and we will probably have another goalie in the mix, although it remains to be seen if that acquisition will lead to overall improvement. In short, I have as little faith that Chevy will/can make the changes that are needed as I have that Maurice will/can make the changes that are needed.

I expect next season to be pretty much a carbon copy of this year. So, to answer the OP question, no. I wonder if we will even be better than LV next year. But I'm fine with that. I'm fine with another early start to the tank thread. Because real change. real improvement can only happen with another completely wasted season that finally forces Chipman to make a move from the top down. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, there is the very real possibility that Chipman will continue on the Friends and Family Plan, and elevate Zinger to the GM position.

Metallica sums up my outlook best in this song:
Your pessimism is contagious.
I pretty much agree with the first 2 paras with the key bits bolded.

The 3rd para, not so much. I'm sure we are all tired of excuses but nevertheless the Jets had some pretty big, legitimate ones this year. The injury one alone could account for a very large difference next year if we just get a typical injury load. - Is there something about Maurice's coaching that leads to injuries? Winnipeg water? This is 2 out of the last 3 years with well beyond normal injuries. - Honestly, I don't see any sign that Zinger will rise beyond where he is now. I don't see him, as some do, as incompetent where he is but I think he has peaked. JMO from a poor vantage point.

Chevy has to get a real NHL starting goalie. Not just a better backup. Maurice has to make better use of the weapons he is given.

Actually Maurice needs to do several things. Penalties, special teams, roster decisions. I really don't want to win in spite of him. We won't go far in the play-offs that way. Give him fewer injuries next year and make it one last chance. Please.

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04-17-2017, 03:19 PM
  #95
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Aye. The Jets aren't in competition with the Leafs, but the Leafs are one of many young teams looking to turn things around. There are a pile of teams that have been trash since the Jets returned.

Leafs:
Auston Matthews
William Nylander
Mitch Marner
Morgan Rielly

Connor Brown
Joshua Leivo
Nikita Soshnikov
Connor Carrick
Kasperi Kapanen


Carolina:
Sebastian Aho
Elias Lindholm
Victor Rask
Teuvo Teravainen

Jaccob Slavin
Noah Hanifin
Brett Pesce
Brock McGinn
Ryan Murphy


Flames:
Johnny Gaudreau
Sean Monahan
Dougie Hamilton
Matthew Tkachuk

Sam Bennett


Blue Jackets:
Alexander Wennberg
Brandon Saad
Zach Werenski
Seth Jones

John Anderson
Boone Jenner
William Karlsson
Oliver Bjorkstrand
Ryan Murray
Lucas Sedlak
Joonas Korpisalo


Jets:
Mark Scheifele
Patrik Laine
Nikolaj Ehlers
Jacob Trouba
Josh Morrissey

Adam Lowry
Joel Armia
Andrew Copp
Nicolas Petan
Marko Dano


Sabres:
Jack Eichel
Sam Reinhart
Rasmus Ristolainen
Jake McCabe
Zemgus Girgensons

William Carrier


Panthers:
Aleksander Barkov
Vincent Trocheck
Jonathan Huberdeau
Aaron Ekblad
Michael Matheson

Denis Malgin
Jared McCann


Oilers:
Connor McDavid
Leon Draisaitl
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Oscar Klefbom
Adam Larsson

Drake Caggiula
Matthew Benning
Jesse Puljujarvi
Anton Slepyshev
Darnell Nurse

Phoenix and Colorado are bad too, but I didn't want to look at this anymore. BTW, that's regular NHL players drafted since 2011.
Not all those players were drafted by that specific team though ie: dano and armia were not wpg jets picks

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04-17-2017, 04:00 PM
  #96
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Not all those players were drafted by that specific team though ie: dano and armia were not wpg jets picks
Same is true for Saad, Larsson, Teravainen, Hamilton, Jones, etc.

Conversation was about age more so than how they were acquired.

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04-17-2017, 04:15 PM
  #97
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The Jets will not be as good as the Leafs next year purely because I work with a bunch of Leaf fans and the hockey gods hate me.

edit: maybe the Jets just hate me and want to make my life miserable.

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04-17-2017, 04:48 PM
  #98
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Unless Chevy trades Maurice to the leafs ... a good coach really does matter.

Speaking of the Leafs ... the refs should helped them last game or do the refs hate the Capitals as much as the Jets.

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04-18-2017, 09:20 AM
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Unless Chevy trades Maurice to the leafs ... a good coach really does matter.

Speaking of the Leafs ... the refs should helped them last game or do the refs hate the Capitals as much as the Jets.
It sounds like the general sentiment here is that even if the Jets pick up a decent goalie, the gap between Maurice and Babcock's coaching abilities is too big to overcome😕

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04-18-2017, 09:31 AM
  #100
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It sounds like the general sentiment here is that even if the Jets pick up a decent goalie, the gap between Maurice and Babcock's coaching abilities is too big to overcome😕
I think Maurice was rather desperate this season, leading to some poor choices. He's shown flashed of decent coaching before, so hopefully he can recapture that as the team starts to perform better.

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