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Jokinen to Ottawa rumors

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Old
02-12-2006, 06:52 PM
  #51
ladybugblue
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Where are there rules posted that a player can not be traded if on the IR? I'd love a link, as this has been said repeatedly, as otherwise its just hearsay.
Well I haven't found a specific link to NHL.com but here are two that discuss how he cannot be traded:
http://www.hockeytraderumors.com/article6230.html

http://rspwfaq.livejournal.com/28984...0953#t14000953

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Old
02-12-2006, 07:00 PM
  #52
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You can also look at the Tkachuk trade from Phoenix to St. Louis. He was approaching UFA status and the Yotes knew they wouldn't be able to re-sign him so they traded him to the Blues for Ladislav Nagy, Michael Handzus, and I believe a #1 draft pick.

Jokinen is only 27 years old, and has generally averaged 30 plus goals over the past three seasons on a team with not much else in the way of offensive threats. Jokinen is actually younger than the vast majority of high profile UFA cases we have seen in the past. We aren't talking about a Matthew Barnaby or Dallas Drake, we are talking about the former 3rd overall choice in the NHL draft that has lived up to his billing the last few years, and he is now entering his physical prime.

I have to agree with the poster that indicated this thread is pointless in the sense that no one knows for sure what kind of package he caqn bring in. That being said, some of the proposed trade packages thrown about by Sens posters appear laughable at best.

Several teams will be actively bidding for Jokinen if in fact Keenan aims to trade him.

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Old
02-12-2006, 07:09 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet17
You can also look at the Tkachuk trade from Phoenix to St. Louis. He was approaching UFA status and the Yotes knew they wouldn't be able to re-sign him so they traded him to the Blues for Ladislav Nagy, Michael Handzus, and I believe a #1 draft pick.
I honestly don't think you can compare it to anything pre-cap era.

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Old
02-12-2006, 07:16 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SensGuy
I honestly don't think you can compare it to anything pre-cap era.
We certainly don't know how the overall landscaped has changed for deadline deals.

But it is probably presumptuous to think that certain teams will be able to acquire top notch young talent for garbage.

Maybe if the Senators are the only team in the trade market, then it would make some sense. Otherwise, well it smacks more of wishful thinking.

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Old
02-12-2006, 07:20 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by SensGuy
I honestly don't think you can compare it to anything pre-cap era.
The cap only affects the buyer. If Ottawa can't afford to re-sign Jokinen, it's their problem, and not Keenan's. It only makes a difference if all of the bidding teams are likewise hamstrung by the cap, and none of them have any intention of re-signing him.

At this point, I don't think that's a reasonable assumption. If Montreal is in the bidding, they almost certainly will want to try to re-sign him, like they did with Kovalev. Possibly the same for Philly because Clarke will do anything to improve his roster, even if it means dumping whoever in the off-season for a draft pick to make space.

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Old
02-12-2006, 07:57 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by bert
Good luck getting Jeff Carter for Jokinen...... Clarke isnt that stupid.
No i mean Clarke could include him in a deal if that meant gettin Jokinen for more than just a rental. If we were to sign him for a multi year deal, Id do that in a second. Olli is still pretty young and is extremely good goal scorer. But Id rather keep him out of it, especially if we just were seeking a rental. In that case we have, like I said Umberger, Ruzsica, and some other guys like Eager, Ready and a lot of picks. So we have a ton to offer, if Florida becomes a seller. The ideal situation would be getting Luongo and Jokinen in a package for like Nittymakki or Esche and those other ppl and picks I suggested. That would take care of our "replacing Primeau" and goaltedning problem all in one.

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Old
02-12-2006, 08:04 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by deuces wild
Jokinen isnt going to Ottawa and all the sens fans should learn to accept that. Your GM has already stated he wont give up a lot or a big part of his team for a rental. The panthers will want a quality guy for giving up Jokinen because hes obviously their captain and best player, and other teams such as Flyers will have a lot of interest in him too. Personally I think the flyers have much more to offer than the sens do. Umberger, Jones, Carter, along with some good prospects like Ruszika along with lots of picks. Clarke has been quoted saying he wil need to find a good replacment for Primeau if he says he will not come back. So, I think by replacement he intends to get a very physical, big gritty guy, who can score. Jokinen fits this description perfectly. The flyers also have been doing pretty poorly latley, which should also lead to some interest among other available players. Even though theres been so much talk about this deal going down with Ottawa, I wouldnt read too much into it. A good example is obviously with Doug Weight. The sens were thought to be his sure destination but out of no where Carolina picks him up. Watch for a similar situation to happen with the Flyers. Clarke does his job quietly, nonetheless, he gets it done. I mean no one ever thought about the Seidenberg-Nedved deal. That came out of no where. And even with all the centers they have, they would still most likely get him. Carter, Handzus and Nedved can all play the wing so I dont think that is really an issue. Plus we have 2 injury prone centers(Nedved aand Foppa) who the flyers cant depend on not getting hurt for the rest of the season. Definitly going to flyers, watch come tradedeadline.
Clarke should try and get a goalie for once. How many years has he gone after something they don't really need and neglected the need for a goalie? And how many times have they been eliminated in the playoffs because of bad goaltending?
So sure, get Jokinen. You still won't win anything this year with Esche or Niitymaki.

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Old
02-12-2006, 08:27 PM
  #58
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If the Sens picked up Jokinen, I would finally put my chips in for them winning the East in the playoffs. They are pretty close as is and I understand many like them to come out of the East, but Olli would really seal the deal for me. I think Jokinen is a really fantastic player, and would instantly become one of the best goal scoring forwards on the Sens.

Who do they trade back for him? 1st round pick? Seems reasonable.

If I'm Muckler, I pick up the following in no particular order:

Dwayne Roloson & Willie Mitchell off the Wild for perhaps Anton Volchenkov, then throw my 1st round pick at the Cats for Jokinen, and call it a day.

Emery is alright, but if I'm the Sens, I want a bit more support in case of a Hasek injury.

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Old
02-12-2006, 08:33 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
If the Sens picked up Jokinen, I would finally put my chips in for them winning the East in the playoffs. They are pretty close as is and I understand many like them to come out of the East, but Olli would really seal the deal for me. I think Jokinen is a really fantastic player, and would instantly become one of the best goal scoring forwards on the Sens.

Who do they trade back for him? 1st round pick? Seems reasonable.

If I'm Muckler, I pick up the following in no particular order:

Dwayne Roloson & Willie Mitchell off the Wild for perhaps Anton Volchenkov, then throw my 1st round pick at the Cats for Jokinen, and call it a day.

Emery is alright, but if I'm the Sens, I want a bit more support in case of a Hasek injury.
I'd say Anton's a bit much for both but that's just me. It's fairly close maybe like a 3rd or 4th rounder added in. I'm one for getting Mitchell. Not sure how Hasek would feel about Roloson though.

How realistic are the deals though? No clue. Probably not very.

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Old
02-12-2006, 08:40 PM
  #60
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FLA will likely get a good package for Jokinen...but if they can get Havlat for a guy who's as good as gone, i would be absolutely shocked...if there is any truth to this rumor at all, i'd suspect that OTT just doesnt like Havlat and believest hat they need to ride Hasek to the Cup this year

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02-12-2006, 08:57 PM
  #61
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Why do you Sens fans care abour losing Havlat. Hes been injured almost all year. Do you really want to trust a non-physical player who hasnt played in months in the rough and tumble playoffs??

Dont you want a guy whos been healthy all year, has scored over 25 goals, is physical, in perfect health and ready to make an impact in the playoffs.

No im sorry. You want that soft, weak, injury prone winger who benifits from his teammates more than nearly anyone in the league and has a HUGE question mark hanging over his head. I know if I wanted to win the cup this year, I would CERTAINLY want this guy.

It would be like getting a first line centre for NOTHING (considering he hasnt been on the roster in weeks.)

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Old
02-12-2006, 08:59 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
No im sorry. You want that soft, weak, injury prone winger who benifits from his teammates more than nearly anyone in the league and has a HUGE question mark hanging over his head. I know if I wanted to win the cup this year, I would CERTAINLY want this guy.
Considering he doesn't play with any of those first line guys, I'd say he doesn't benefit from them. It's misinformed people like this who piss me off.

Quote:
It would be like getting a first line centre for NOTHING (considering he hasnt been on the roster in weeks.)
15-1 with Havlat.
22-13-5 without Havlat.

OMG, it'd be like getting a first line player back at the deadline for NOTHING.

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Old
02-12-2006, 09:00 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Dwayne Roloson & Willie Mitchell off the Wild for perhaps Anton Volchenkov, then throw my 1st round pick at the Cats for Jokinen, and call it a day.
Muckler won't make moves that will mess with the teams chemistry. He certainly doesn't look like he's willing to move Volchenkov as well.

It also means the Sens lose ANOTHER young defenseman, which they don't have any ready for the NHL, let alone Top 4 guy. And they bring in ANOTHER UFA who they might not have next season.


Last edited by The Mars Volchenkov: 02-12-2006 at 09:43 PM.
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Old
02-12-2006, 09:01 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamboner
Do you not understand that he is a UFA this summer, and has already rejected a 4yr, 16 million dollar contract offer (therefore making him a rental for Ottawa)???

RENTAL

Go actually look into the situation before you post garbage like above.. thank you.
I'd reject a 4 year 16 mil deal if I was playing on the Panthers too.

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02-12-2006, 09:04 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by SensGuy
Considering he doesn't play with any of those first line guys, I'd say he doesn't benefit from them.
I would, considering opponents top defensive lines are tagging the sens top offensive line all night, leaving havlat to deal with 2nd and 3rd defenseive pairings

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02-12-2006, 09:04 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
Why do you Sens fans care abour losing Havlat. Hes been injured almost all year. Do you really want to trust a non-physical player who hasnt played in months in the rough and tumble playoffs??

Dont you want a guy whos been healthy all year, has scored over 25 goals, is physical, in perfect health and ready to make an impact in the playoffs.

No im sorry. You want that soft, weak, injury prone winger who benifits from his teammates more than nearly anyone in the league and has a HUGE question mark hanging over his head. I know if I wanted to win the cup this year, I would CERTAINLY want this guy.

It would be like getting a first line centre for NOTHING (considering he hasnt been on the roster in weeks.)
Havlat's been to the playoffs. Thanks for dropping by.

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Old
02-12-2006, 09:06 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
I would, considering opponents top defensive lines are tagging the sens top offensive line all night, leaving havlat to deal with 2nd and 3rd defenseive pairings
It certainly has nothing to do with how talented he is, does it? Or the fact that he makes the players around him better?

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02-12-2006, 09:10 PM
  #68
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Well Sutter will not go after him then there is no way the flames will give the panthers a 1 pick and and player for oh will we have to go after someone else

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02-12-2006, 09:14 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Murphy
Havlat's been to the playoffs. Thanks for dropping by.
Um yea thats right-

Never been to the playoffs= Automatically has no chance of making an impact.

I think that a 27 year old bulldozer who has averaged 30 goals a season for the past 3, who is a captain, all star, 1st line centre and wrecking ball has a chance to make an impact.

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Old
02-12-2006, 09:15 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
Why do you Sens fans care abour losing Havlat. Hes been injured almost all year. Do you really want to trust a non-physical player who hasnt played in months in the rough and tumble playoffs??

Dont you want a guy whos been healthy all year, has scored over 25 goals, is physical, in perfect health and ready to make an impact in the playoffs.

No im sorry. You want that soft, weak, injury prone winger who benifits from his teammates more than nearly anyone in the league and has a HUGE question mark hanging over his head. I know if I wanted to win the cup this year, I would CERTAINLY want this guy.

It would be like getting a first line centre for NOTHING (considering he hasnt been on the roster in weeks.)
You clearly haven't seen Havlat play. If you had you would know how valuable and good Havlat is. His freek injury doesn't take anything away from him as a player. The way I see it we don't need to go out and overspend on a rental. We're already getting someone who is better than what we'd get through a trade. If we do go after Jokinen I hope it's Bochenski who is the main piece (and a 1st i'd assume) going the other way.

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02-12-2006, 09:17 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SensGuy
It certainly has nothing to do with how talented he is, does it? Or the fact that he makes the players around him better?
Well, I wont argue he is extremely talented and gifted. In fact, I totally agree. But the fact he does face weaker opponents than the top line does help him.

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02-12-2006, 09:22 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Senator Stanley
You clearly haven't seen Havlat play. If you had you would know how valuable and good Havlat is. His freek injury doesn't take anything away from him as a player. The way I see it we don't need to go out and overspend on a rental. We're already getting someone who is better than what we'd get through a trade. If we do go after Jokinen I hope it's Bochenski who is the main piece (and a 1st i'd assume) going the other way.
Look, I know he is a good player. I know that. You dont score as easily as he does without being a player.

Im just trying to point out that Jokinen has alot of value. More value than Havlat even. Im not gonna let sens fans throw crap against the wall without stepping in and saying somwthing. Bochenski + a 1st (the 20somethingth overall) umm, no.

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02-12-2006, 09:23 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SensGuy
It's misinformed people like this who piss me off.
???????

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02-12-2006, 09:30 PM
  #74
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Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the reason why Olli is having the years he is having is because he is really the only threat on the Panthers? To me Olli is a little overrated by some people. This is the first time in his career he is a ppg player. If he finishes this year with more than 30 goals it will be only the 2nd time in his career hes passed that. Could he be coming into his ? possibly, but on the other side he may be one of those players that because he is the sole threat his points are up there. Whos to say if by going to a team with more offensive weapons his numbers will stay the same. They could go up but they could go down too. If he gets traded i dont see them getting as big as return and some fans would like to see

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Old
02-12-2006, 09:32 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
Im just trying to point out that Jokinen has alot of value. More value than Havlat even. Im not gonna let sens fans throw crap against the wall without stepping in and saying somwthing. Bochenski + a 1st (the 20somethingth overall) umm, no.
A 27 YO impending UFA does not have more value than a 24 YO RFA with another year until he hits UFA.

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