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McDavid in his prime

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Old
04-17-2017, 12:09 AM
  #51
authentic
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Originally Posted by Trinstin View Post
I'd definitely argue this is his prime. I would argue for most elite players that enter the league at 18, as soon as they enter they're in their prime and start to decline around 21 to 23 yrs old.
Where do people come up with this stuff? I'm really curious.

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04-17-2017, 12:17 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by authentic View Post
Where do people come up with this stuff? I'm really curious.
Because he has the least amount of wear and tear, doesn't know he has limits, has very little real life responsibilities meaning his focus is almost entirely on playing hockey, his energy levels are naturally higher now than they'll probably ever be. I honestly believe that as much as he will gain with experience he will lose due to it in other ways.

Of course he may not have had his best season yet but I believe he will in the near future.

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04-17-2017, 12:37 AM
  #53
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He's already past his prime. If you look at his production longitudinally, it has dropped from a peak of over 2 points/game in 14-15 to 1.25 this season.

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04-17-2017, 01:24 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Trinstin View Post
I'd definitely argue this is his prime. I would argue for most elite players that enter the league at 18, as soon as they enter they're in their prime and start to decline around 21 to 23 yrs old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinstin View Post
Because he has the least amount of wear and tear, doesn't know he has limits, has very little real life responsibilities meaning his focus is almost entirely on playing hockey, his energy levels are naturally higher now than they'll probably ever be. I honestly believe that as much as he will gain with experience he will lose due to it in other ways.

Of course he may not have had his best season yet but I believe he will in the near future.
That doesn't change the fact that the bolded part of your previous post is evidently false though.

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Old
04-17-2017, 05:19 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Mcnotloilersfan View Post
Heatley is a poor example. His prime was reduced to him being slow and completely lacking in character.
He didn't lack character as a Shark. His prime was destroyed by injuries which reduced him from a slow NHL player to a player who was too slow to keep up with the NHL game at any capacity.

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04-17-2017, 05:32 AM
  #56
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Wow, are people really being ridiculed for suggesting this may be his most productive season?

Crosby scored 120 points to win the Art Ross in his sophomore season at the same age. Since then, he has never even scored 110 points. This is equivalent to McDavid never even scoring 90 again. It's not that ridiculous to suggest, especially if league scoring continues to decrease.

Now, I do believe McDavid is different from Crosby, and I can see him doing 110 in his prime. But let's not act like there aren't a LOT of players who peaked offensively with elite seasons in their first 3 years and never reached the same level of production again. Selanne had 76 goals as a rookie. Some guys actually do just catch the world off guard at a young age and then never reach that level again. Most of the players who do that gain maturity and grown man strength, and offset (or do their best to try and offset) their lesser production with a stronger 3-zone game, but that doesn't change that they're past their offensive peaks. This obviously doesn't happen to every player, but it happened to Crosby, who is McDavid's closest comparable.

To insult somebody's intelligence for suggesting that this may actually be McDavid's peak season is just showing a lack of research and open mindedness on your own part. It's unlikely McDavid will never break 100 points again, and even more unlikely he will never break 90 again, but it's quite possible.

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04-17-2017, 05:48 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by MarleauApologist View Post
Wow, are people really being ridiculed for suggesting this may be his most productive season?

Crosby scored 120 points to win the Art Ross in his sophomore season at the same age. Since then, he has never even scored 110 points. This is equivalent to McDavid never even scoring 90 again. It's not that ridiculous to suggest, especially if league scoring continues to decrease.

Now, I do believe McDavid is different from Crosby, and I can see him doing 110 in his prime. But let's not act like there aren't a LOT of players who peaked offensively with elite seasons in their first 3 years and never reached the same level of production again. Selanne had 76 goals as a rookie. Some guys actually do just catch the world off guard at a young age and then never reach that level again. Most of the players who do that gain maturity and grown man strength, and offset (or do their best to try and offset) their lesser production with a stronger 3-zone game, but that doesn't change that they're past their offensive peaks. This obviously doesn't happen to every player, but it happened to Crosby, who is McDavid's closest comparable.

To insult somebody's intelligence for suggesting that this may actually be McDavid's peak season is just showing a lack of research and open mindedness on your own part. It's unlikely McDavid will never break 100 points again, and even more unlikely he will never break 90 again, but it's quite possible.
In Crosby's case though he would have likely topped his sophomore season several times if not for injuries, also the NHL made the mistake of allowing clutching/grabbing back into the game, at some point if league scoring continues to decrease, changes are going to be made IMO.

Beyond I think Connor has more room to develop than Sid. His shot can get a lot better (and usage there of) and he is still a bit on the skinny side as kids his age tend to be. He will get stronger as times goes on, Sid was a bit more physically developed at that same age.

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Old
04-17-2017, 07:04 AM
  #58
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Elite players peak early, he's in his prime now.

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04-17-2017, 07:25 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by that is unfortunate View Post
Elite players peak early, he's in his prime now.
Peak in offensive production maybe, but their prime impact on the game is still in the 23-27 range

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04-17-2017, 07:32 AM
  #60
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Gretzky hit his peak in his 4th season and stayed there about 5 years,ages 21-26. Lemieux hit his peak in his 5th year at age 24.

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04-17-2017, 07:33 AM
  #61
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He's in his prime, but like most players of his level of skill, i'd expect 100+ points a year, with it varying up and down.

He will carve a career out just like the rest of the big 3. Some years closer to 120, some years closer to 100.


I think a better judgement is top ~5 in scoring/point per game for his prime, which i imagine he will be in until he's 30 at least. He might score or create plays based on his speed now, but guys like Mcdavid don't 1 trick it forever. He'll adapt as he gets older and become more dynamic. He'll score more "veteran" goals on simple plays and less highlight reelers, but he'll still score about the same.

Crosby averaged/s around 100 points/82 games played or more, I expect Mcdavid similar.

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04-17-2017, 07:56 AM
  #62
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Must be a slow news day on HF...........

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04-17-2017, 08:17 AM
  #63
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At least 1000 every seasons

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04-17-2017, 09:59 AM
  #64
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You also have to consider how much the game may change by then. Will changes to goalie equipment/ net size inflate the scoring? Or will tighter checking swing things the other way? When Crosby was in his first couple of seasons it seemed like he was a lock for 100+ per year too but then the game changed and became much more difficult to score. He's arguably at the top of his game right now and is a mid-to-high 80's producer. Who knows what things will look like in 5 years.

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04-17-2017, 10:09 AM
  #65
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Peak from 22-26, starting with ~110 pts and tailing down to 80.

Unfortunately he'll miss his 24 and 25yr old seasons due to the mandatory Canadian military service instated as a result of rising tensions between US, China, Russia and North Korea. But he should return afterward to the NHL and put in a solid 10 more years in his career, becoming the first retired jersey for the Beijing Blue Bombers.

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04-17-2017, 10:28 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarleauApologist View Post
Wow, are people really being ridiculed for suggesting this may be his most productive season?

Crosby scored 120 points to win the Art Ross in his sophomore season at the same age. Since then, he has never even scored 110 points. This is equivalent to McDavid never even scoring 90 again. It's not that ridiculous to suggest, especially if league scoring continues to decrease.

Now, I do believe McDavid is different from Crosby, and I can see him doing 110 in his prime. But let's not act like there aren't a LOT of players who peaked offensively with elite seasons in their first 3 years and never reached the same level of production again. Selanne had 76 goals as a rookie. Some guys actually do just catch the world off guard at a young age and then never reach that level again. Most of the players who do that gain maturity and grown man strength, and offset (or do their best to try and offset) their lesser production with a stronger 3-zone game, but that doesn't change that they're past their offensive peaks. This obviously doesn't happen to every player, but it happened to Crosby, who is McDavid's closest comparable.

To insult somebody's intelligence for suggesting that this may actually be McDavid's peak season is just showing a lack of research and open mindedness on your own part. It's unlikely McDavid will never break 100 points again, and even more unlikely he will never break 90 again, but it's quite possible.
The examples you are giving are due to scoring levels across the league, and not age related at all. How many players actually peaked offensively on a relative basis in their first 3 seasons? Let's see your list. Selanne and Crosby don't qualify just so you know. Beyond that you could argue Gretzky with his 92 goal 212 point season in his 3rd year, but he did score 215 4 years later and had a bigger gap in points over 2nd and the rest of the top scorers. The season after that with 183 was actually his peak relative to the league at age 26, as the next leading scorer (his linemate) only had 108. Gretzky however is likely the only forward in modern history you could argue hit his peak in his 3rd season or less. If you don't believe me, research it yourself and see what you come up with.

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04-17-2017, 11:21 AM
  #67
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Crosby was peak 23-25

Gretzky 21-25

Lemieux 22-27

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04-17-2017, 12:42 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by authentic View Post
Where do people come up with this stuff? I'm really curious.
Looking at P/60 rates at 5v5

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04-17-2017, 12:44 PM
  #69
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All these petty arguments, blanket statements, leads
me to believe there are a lot of McDavid haters in here. Anyone who watches #97, will notice he is nowhere near his offensive peak, or physiological peak. Right now he is a 100 point highlight reel. Once this guy adds garbage goals, simple plays , and gets further used to the league he has the ability to hit 130 within the next 3 years.


Last edited by McFlash: 04-17-2017 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Spelling
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04-17-2017, 01:26 PM
  #70
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23-26. I expect him to get to 110 points in 2 or 3 of those 4 seasons.

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04-17-2017, 07:07 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by deflowd View Post
Looking at P/60 rates at 5v5
Looking at P/60 rates players begin to decline at 21-23? Show me like 3 examples, among elite players.

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04-18-2017, 02:54 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by chethejet View Post
Sid changed his game from the speed beat your guy to a puck possession work the boards and play a 200 foot game. McDavid has many of Gretzsky's trademarks. He is not Crosby and the question is will he evolve to be a player that can beat you in a number of ways. People look at talent without seeing what wins and is sustainable. Pens win due to Crosby being the best player anywhere on the ice. That is the challenge for McDavid, or Mathews or Eichel.
Wrong!

1. Penguins win because of depth, great passing, team speed and having a lot of premier offensive weapons including players such as Malkin, Crosby and Kessel.

2. Crosby is not the best player in the world in his own zone as you wrote. He has a good case in the offensive zone though.

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04-18-2017, 03:29 AM
  #73
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His career high will be 130 plus. You read it here 1st

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04-18-2017, 03:40 AM
  #74
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I think it's too early to tell. Maybe in ten years there's enough evidence to call this one, but there's a great chance that he scores one hundred points for ten years on from now! Connor McDavid is very good hockey player.

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Old
04-18-2017, 06:53 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chethejet View Post
Sid changed his game from the speed beat your guy to a puck possession work the boards and play a 200 foot game. McDavid has many of Gretzsky's trademarks. He is not Crosby and the question is will he evolve to be a player that can beat you in a number of ways. People look at talent without seeing what wins and is sustainable. Pens win due to Crosby being the best player anywhere on the ice. That is the challenge for McDavid, or Mathews or Eichel.
All the greats typically do this. It's how you survive in any changing and highly competitive sport. The mind and body that got you to the show @ 18 keeps you playing into your 30's.

Just look @ Messier in his latter years compared to his first 5 or so.

Look @ McDavid's recent shorthanded playoff goal.
Now that he's burned so many D with that outside-inside speed move they don't play him very well overall. He comes in from the defensive blue-line 2on2, feints like he'll drive wide, then releases a rather simple shot.

If you see how deceptive some of his shots are and certainly many of his 2on1 or 2on2 passes you'll realize that he doesn't NEED his speed to create offence. It's just another tool he has which happens to be elite.

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