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Is J Toews worth his contract?

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Old
04-16-2017, 08:44 PM
  #1
varank
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Is J Toews worth his contract?

I've seen people rip on J Toews saying how he's not above average, not worth his contract, mediocre etc etc. I don't believe that to be the case, what about you guys?

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04-16-2017, 08:45 PM
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dellzor
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Nope. That 10million contract was given because Kane and Toews brought them 3 stanley cups, pretty much a thank you contract. Realistically, Toews is worth about, I'd say a 7-8million player.

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04-16-2017, 08:54 PM
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When you captain 3 cup champs. You can write your own ticket.

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04-16-2017, 08:55 PM
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silkyjohnson50
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He wasn't not going to get that contract. But that's a lot of money going forward for a guy who's best hockey appears to be behind him.

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04-16-2017, 08:56 PM
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Dominate Kesler
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I'll gladly pay any man, anything he wants, who gave my team 3 Cups.

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04-16-2017, 08:59 PM
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Balance
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He was a passenger for 3 stanley cups and got 10m for it

What a life, imagine he was drafted by the Coyotes or something. Dude would be irrelevant.

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04-16-2017, 09:00 PM
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Smartguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
I'll gladly pay any man, anything he wants, who gave my team 3 Cups.
See above, any owner in the NHL would gladly pay any player 10 million a year to watch him be the first player to lift 3 cups for his team, hence his contract. Minus the cups he's a 7 million dollar play probably on the open market

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04-16-2017, 09:01 PM
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Joe Flacco contract.

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04-16-2017, 09:04 PM
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Morning Dart
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He's definitely above average, he's got to be considered a 1C at the very least. However, these 3rd contracts are rarely worth it for the team, especially when you're talking about a guy who isn't in the top-10 players in the league. I like Toews, but every argument about him being a top player has always centered around cups or intangibles. Obviously the former is awesome, I'm pretty sure every fambase in the league is envious of the Hawks success, but on an individual basis Toews has never been worth a 10.5 million dollar contract. So no, when you consider what 10.5M should buy you in the NHL, Toews isn't worth it. It's a thank you, here's your fortune and a statue outside United Center contract, which he's more than earned captaining the closest thing the cap era has seen to a dynasty. Doesn't mean it doesn't hamstring the Hawks from winning from here on out.

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04-16-2017, 09:07 PM
  #10
ESH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
He was a passenger for 3 stanley cups and got 10m for it

What a life, imagine he was drafted by the Coyotes or something. Dude would be irrelevant.
Toews is actually the exact opposite of a passenger. Brouwer,
Versteeg? Sure they can be considered passengers. But calling Toews a passenger on the Blackhawks is kind of like calling Messier a passenger on the Oilers. It's really wrong.

As for the actual thread, no he's probably not worth that much money, but he earned it and even if the Blackhawks didn't give him that much somebody would have. He easily had a better career than Kane until last season, people are apparently just very focused on the present when judging a player's career.

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04-16-2017, 09:14 PM
  #11
Steamwhistle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
He was a passenger for 3 stanley cups and got 10m for it

What a life, imagine he was drafted by the Coyotes or something. Dude would be irrelevant.
Lmao did you seriously just call a Conn Smythe winner a playoff passenger? Absolutely moronic.

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04-16-2017, 09:17 PM
  #12
AD1066
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No, he's being rewarded for past performance; not being paid in the hope he'll live up to his cap hit as a 30 year old and beyond.

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04-16-2017, 09:29 PM
  #13
WhiskeyYourTheDevils
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Nope.

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04-16-2017, 09:31 PM
  #14
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Do we really need another toews thread, especially with such a lazy op. He was paid for what he did not what he'll do going forward. An 84 mil contract is not overpaying for 3 cups. He probably won't perform like a 10.5mi/year player going forward. The end

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04-16-2017, 09:31 PM
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VoidCreature
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I'm not sure anyone in the league is worth 10.5 million. Maybe McDavid.

The crazy thing is this was considered a hometown discount at the time. Hard to imagine what he would have gotten on the open market.

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04-16-2017, 09:31 PM
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No

Next question

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04-16-2017, 09:32 PM
  #17
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Re: the three cups argument... Why pay for cups that you've already won????

Habs have been absolutely centre-starved for the past 25 years and I wouldn't touch Toews' contract with a 10.5 foot pole

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04-16-2017, 09:32 PM
  #18
Ezekial
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No. Duh.

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04-16-2017, 09:35 PM
  #19
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He's a top 100 player though...

And his value is close. I'd give him maximum 8-8.5m especially with the 3 cups on his resume.

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04-16-2017, 09:40 PM
  #20
CokenoPepsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESH View Post
Toews is actually the exact opposite of a passenger. Brouwer,
Versteeg? Sure they can be considered passengers. But calling Toews a passenger on the Blackhawks is kind of like calling Messier a passenger on the Oilers. It's really wrong.

As for the actual thread, no he's probably not worth that much money, but he earned it and even if the Blackhawks didn't give him that much somebody would have. He easily had a better career than Kane until last season, people are apparently just very focused on the present when judging a player's career.
Lol no

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04-16-2017, 09:42 PM
  #21
danielpalfredsson
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Toews and Kane's contracts are anomalies. Both were signed at the worst possible time which was after 2012 lockout that limited contracts to 8 years in length but before the Canadian dollar plummeted which has slowed down the growth of the cap and re-written what teams are willing to offer star players to some extent.

Had the cap kept growing at a similar rate to what it was growing at prior to the CAD tanking, Kane and Toews contracts would have ended up being lesser percentages of the overall cap. Had both sides signed either extremely long term deals off of their ELCs, or bridge deals that ended early enough to allow them to sign an extension prior to the lockout, they could have locked down both sides to contracts similar to Keith's or Hossa's where the "fake" years on the end artificially lower the overall cap hit.

There are a handful of players who signed during that time period, and because of the circumstances of the cap landscape changing, it will be very hard for those players to live up to their inflated contracts because the market value for each caliber of player has dropped since then due to the cap levelling off. Toews is one of these players.

Whether Toews is worth it depends on how much value you place on his contributions to team culture and the Blackhawks willingness to win. Ryan O'Reilly produces similarly, both are excellent all around centers (*although O'Reilly plays wing too), and O'Reilly makes 3 million less than Toews. One thing that has to be considered is that Toews production has been very high in the playoffs more often than not. So that's a factor.

Who is Toews closer to in "value" for what he brings on the ice....Ryan O'Reilly, or pre 2016 (when he signed) Anze Kopitar? If he is closer to the former, are his contributions to Chicago's off ice culture worth an extra 3M per season?

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04-16-2017, 09:43 PM
  #22
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Based on his play the last two seasons? About half.

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04-16-2017, 09:48 PM
  #23
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Lol no

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Old
04-16-2017, 09:49 PM
  #24
The Toews Era
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalfredsson View Post
Toews and Kane's contracts are anomalies. Both were signed at the worst possible time which was after 2012 lockout that limited contracts to 8 years in length but before the Canadian dollar plummeted which has slowed down the growth of the cap and re-written what teams are willing to offer star players to some extent.

Had the cap kept growing at a similar rate to what it was growing at prior to the CAD tanking, Kane and Toews contracts would have ended up being lesser percentages of the overall cap. Had both sides signed either extremely long term deals off of their ELCs, or bridge deals that ended early enough to allow them to sign an extension prior to the lockout, they could have locked down both sides to contracts similar to Keith's or Hossa's where the "fake" years on the end artificially lower the overall cap hit.

There are a handful of players who signed during that time period, and because of the circumstances of the cap landscape changing, it will be very hard for those players to live up to their inflated contracts because the market value for each caliber of player has dropped since then due to the cap levelling off. Toews is one of these players.

Whether Toews is worth it depends on how much value you place on his contributions to team culture and the Blackhawks willingness to win. Ryan O'Reilly produces similarly, both are excellent all around centers (*although O'Reilly plays wing too), and O'Reilly makes 3 million less than Toews. One thing that has to be considered is that Toews production has been very high in the playoffs more often than not. So that's a factor.

Who is Toews closer to in "value" for what he brings on the ice....Ryan O'Reilly, or pre 2016 (when he signed) Anze Kopitar? If he is closer to the former, are his contributions to Chicago's off ice culture worth an extra 3M per season?
Really well thought out and reasoned post.

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Old
04-16-2017, 09:50 PM
  #25
VoidCreature
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalfredsson View Post
Toews and Kane's contracts are anomalies. Both were signed at the worst possible time which was after 2012 lockout that limited contracts to 8 years in length but before the Canadian dollar plummeted which has slowed down the growth of the cap and re-written what teams are willing to offer star players to some extent.

Had the cap kept growing at a similar rate to what it was growing at prior to the CAD tanking, Kane and Toews contracts would have ended up being lesser percentages of the overall cap. Had both sides signed either extremely long term deals off of their ELCs, or bridge deals that ended early enough to allow them to sign an extension prior to the lockout, they could have locked down both sides to contracts similar to Keith's or Hossa's where the "fake" years on the end artificially lower the overall cap hit.

There are a handful of players who signed during that time period, and because of the circumstances of the cap landscape changing, it will be very hard for those players to live up to their inflated contracts because the market value for each caliber of player has dropped since then due to the cap levelling off. Toews is one of these players.

Whether Toews is worth it depends on how much value you place on his contributions to team culture and the Blackhawks willingness to win. Ryan O'Reilly produces similarly, both are excellent all around centers (*although O'Reilly plays wing too), and O'Reilly makes 3 million less than Toews. One thing that has to be considered is that Toews production has been very high in the playoffs more often than not. So that's a factor.

Who is Toews closer to in "value" for what he brings on the ice....Ryan O'Reilly, or pre 2016 (when he signed) Anze Kopitar? If he is closer to the former, are his contributions to Chicago's off ice culture worth an extra 3M per season?
Best post I've seen on the subject.

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