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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Is J Toews worth his contract?

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Old
04-17-2017, 09:25 AM
  #51
The Toews Era
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Originally Posted by BruinLVGA View Post
We won a Cup. We gave Bergeron 6.875. He is better than Toews.
Bergeron typically gets carried in the playoffs by Krejci, so he can't really claim to have provided 1c production in the playoffs huh?

Toews 108 points in 126 playoff games 0.86ppg
Krejci 77 points in 93 playoff games 0.83ppg
Bergeron 68 points in 97 playoff games 0.70ppg

Weak playoff ppgs like that can be signed to bargain deals for sure

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Old
04-17-2017, 09:43 AM
  #52
nbwingsfan
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Originally Posted by The Toews Era View Post
Bergeron typically gets carried in the playoffs by Krejci, so he can't really claim to have provided 1c production in the playoffs huh?

Toews 108 points in 126 playoff games 0.86ppg
Krejci 77 points in 93 playoff games 0.83ppg
Bergeron 68 points in 97 playoff games 0.70ppg

Weak playoff ppgs like that can be signed to bargain deals for sure
0.7 is actually very close to his regular season production, which you've used in a defense of Toews many times.

Also 0.16 PPG is not worth over $3M/year especially when Bergeron is the better defensive player to boot.

As someone else has said, Bergeron/Marchand are a comparable combo for $8M less... Would you rather have Toews/Kane or Bergeron/Marchand/$8M in cap space? Incredibly easy answer.

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Old
04-17-2017, 10:00 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
0.7 is actually very close to his regular season production, which you've used in a defense of Toews many times.

Also 0.16 PPG is not worth over $3M/year especially when Bergeron is the better defensive player to boot.

As someone else has said, Bergeron/Marchand are a comparable combo for $8M less... Would you rather have Toews/Kane or Bergeron/Marchand/$8M in cap space? Incredibly easy answer.
All those "bargain" contracts have resulted in missed playoffs 2x and squeaking in the past 3 years so i guess its not that easy

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Old
04-17-2017, 10:16 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by The Toews Era View Post
All those "bargain" contracts have resulted in missed playoffs 2x and squeaking in the past 3 years so i guess its not that easy
You're right, Bergeron and Marchand were the reason they missed the playoffs

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Old
04-17-2017, 10:19 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
You're right, Bergeron and Marchand were the reason they missed the playoffs
Missing the point. You cant claim the contracts are bad because they force the hawks to have weaker depth AND that the per slot value of the two players is comparable and then gloss over whats actually happened. Hint - the value of the two players havent been close to equal except perhaps for this past season.

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Old
04-17-2017, 10:22 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Deedog99 View Post
What does that say about parise and suters contract then?
The Suter contract is fine, the Parise contract when from okay to comically bad.

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Old
04-17-2017, 10:24 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by The Toews Era View Post
Missing the point. You cant claim the contracts are bad because they force the hawks to have weaker depth AND that the per slot value of the two players is comparable and then gloss over whats actually happened. Hint - the value of the two players havent been close to equal except perhaps for this past season.
Bergeron was better than Toews last season. Marchand was the best of the 4 this season. You think that Toews/Kane have been anywhere close to $8M/year better? Yikes. That's a Doughty/Stamkos type difference.

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Old
04-17-2017, 10:26 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
Bergeron was better than Toews last season. Marchand was the best of the 4 this season. You think that Toews/Kane have been anywhere close to $8M/year better? Yikes. That's a Doughty/Stamkos type difference.
And kane won the art ross by 17 points last season. So yeah, their combined value hasnt been close to comparable except for this past season.

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Old
04-17-2017, 10:30 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by The Toews Era View Post
And kane won the art ross by 17 points last season. So yeah, their combined value hasnt been close to comparable except for this past season.
Sure, by a million or two I'll give you that (due to Kane being the best of the 4). By $8M? Not even remotely close.


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Old
04-17-2017, 10:34 AM
  #60
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No way.

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Old
04-17-2017, 11:04 AM
  #61
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Hell no

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Old
04-17-2017, 12:04 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I know it won't be the best hockey argument. But it could be pointed out Toews has played a big part in making that organization and the Wirtz family a ton of money. Couple hundred million dollars is what we are talking there. So his now unfortunate contract cap hit number has at least been earned in a different way.
Per Forbes the Blackhawks were worth 168 million in 2006, now they are worth 925 million. For the Wirtz family the contracts are worth it. There was no way the Hawks were going to let Toews or Kane walk, They still remember what happened when they let Bobby Hull go.

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Old
04-17-2017, 12:08 PM
  #63
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Of course not. There's not many guys in the league who are worth that deal

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04-17-2017, 05:58 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Ginger Jesus View Post
Of course not. There's not many guys in the league who are worth that deal
Was Toews likely to be worth his contract over the 8 years? No. He came into the NHL at 19 on his ELC. He was 28 when he began this 8 year deal which takes him to age 36. His PPG in the regular season and playoffs is basically the same at .86 PPG.

The best years of his career have occurred. He plays a grittier game than Kane, which usually means his production drops faster than that of a pure skilled forward. Just the wear and tear will add up over the years. Long playoffs, along with Team Canada duties at Olympics and World Cups.

NE Patriots would have let him go. But, this is the NHL, and that just doesn't happen. Remember, the NHL salary cap hasn't risen by a lot coming out of the last work stoppage. That, and the depth of the Hawks roster is being tested. So, either Toews has to up his game or more young players have to step up and take the load off Toews.

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04-17-2017, 06:06 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ManwithNoIdentity View Post
Definitely not worth it.

He was simply paid for his past achievements (3 cups) which is a great thing but him and Kane's contracts are going to handicap the Hawks for years.

These contracts are exactly the reason we're going to have another lockout in a few years.
Exactly.

So paying a player for what he has done in the past with no regard to his future will not only end up disastrous for not only the Hawks but the rest of the league. That contract eventually becomes a benchmark for other 20+ goal, 50ish point scoring defensive forwards. I'm not saying that player X is gonna end up getting 10.5m per season, but that player could use that as a negotiating point and end up getting 8.5- 9.5m, which causes another player to use that as his negotiating point.

Wash, rinse, repeat, lockout.

Do I think he's worth 10.5m? Not even close. One top 10 season in goals, one second team all-star, zero top 10 in points. I know, I know, leadership, Cups, and teh intangibles... those are worth the extra 3 mil, right?

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Old
04-17-2017, 07:15 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by dellzor View Post
Nope. That 10million contract was given because Kane and Toews brought them 3 stanley cups, pretty much a thank you contract. .

that's like marrying a girl that let you have sex with her all the time, knowing that you'll only get it a few times a year after being married

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Old
04-17-2017, 09:30 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Deedog99 View Post
What does that say about parise and suters contract then?
Nothing? They were signed under the previous CBA.

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04-17-2017, 10:42 PM
  #68
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The question is if Toews is worth his contract, not whether or not he earned it.

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04-18-2017, 12:36 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Toews Era View Post
Missing the point. You cant claim the contracts are bad because they force the hawks to have weaker depth AND that the per slot value of the two players is comparable and then gloss over whats actually happened. Hint - the value of the two players havent been close to equal except perhaps for this past season.
Hint: Bergeron > Toews
Hint: 6.8 cap hit > 10.5 cap hit

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Old
04-18-2017, 12:37 AM
  #70
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Against Nashville, Toews has been a mentally weak loser. He is essentially stealing his salary's worth of money from fans.

No guts, no heart. Loser.

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Old
04-18-2017, 12:38 AM
  #71
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Is he worrh it? I guess if they bring Keith back at 40 for like 16 mil just as a bit of payment to give him some of what hes worth. Its always "Toews and Kane" but really its Keith and Kane then Crawford and then probably Toews or Hossa. I cant imagine they win 3 without Keith, that guy played at such a high level for so many minutes its crazy

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04-18-2017, 12:43 AM
  #72
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He's an upper echelon 1st liner. But not 10mil worth. I'd have him around 7mil. Good for him, though. He probably gave his boss more than 10mil in earnings.

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Old
04-18-2017, 12:47 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Why would they cause a lockout? The main reason for the lockouts was either some owners were losing money, and others wouldn't spend(in order not to lose money) thus were victims of lack of parity. The first lockout addressed this, the second addressed stuff like contract lengths. Anything bad that happens at this point is on the owners/GMs

There might be a few things that can lead to a lockout, but salary cap is not one of them
Please, the 2nd one (which was actually the third one) was entirely on the owners. They were too dumb to follow the spirit of their own rules.

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Old
04-18-2017, 12:48 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Balance View Post
He was a passenger for 3 stanley cups and got 10m for it

What a life, imagine he was drafted by the Coyotes or something. Dude would be irrelevant.
Ok, now this is asinine.

Even if you're one of those who don't look at underlying numbers and thus wrongfully think he was bad in 2013, in 2010 he led the team in scoring, in 2015 he had 21 points in 23 games.

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Old
04-18-2017, 12:53 AM
  #75
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He's a fantastic player who likely should be making around 8-8.5 million a year. Though absolutely maddening that some folks used to claim he was better than Crosby

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