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Trouba to Boston for Krug (prospect and draft pick)

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Old
04-18-2017, 06:59 PM
  #51
Mortimer Snerd
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I would just as soon keep Trouba through the arbitration years and try to win a cup over the next three years and deal with the fall out later. Things like that happen all the time in the NBA.
This isn't the NBA. Totally different set of conditions.

I think it is best to continually be building for the long term. Build a contender and stay in contention.

The fallout will be that he is gone for nothing if we ever let it get to arb. So we get a 3 year window from now and we still haven't made the play-offs and don't have a goalie.

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04-18-2017, 07:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
I was told in the summer by a few people that Trouba was traded. I still believe that he wants to be moved and have heard that he still wants out.

I want him signed though. Hopeful but I doubt it happens
Just to clarify - a deal had been made and then fell through?

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04-18-2017, 07:11 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Puckatron 3000 View Post
I get your point. But it's a tall order. You're asking to find:
1. An extremely good D
2. Young enough to fit our core age group
3. With >3 years contract
4. That the team is willing to trade

I hope we find that, too. But what if we don't?
I don't think it is that difficult but we would have to be somewhat flexible in how the value is made up.

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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
It might be tough if we are limiting it to Jacob only but if we package more from our side it might become more doable.
If we seriously put Trouba on the market we get 30 strong offers and an auction. Some teams would have to get a little creative but they would come up with something interesting.

You make a good point about Krug being under contract for the same term as we have Trouba for but it is not the same unless Krug comes out and says he won't stay here once his contract is up. Also Krug is not the only piece coming back. We were talking about McAvoy + Krug I believe. I don't think that is likely anymore. McAvoy's stock has risen but we are talking hypothetically here anyway.

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04-18-2017, 07:22 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Sure, but given where we are at with our mix of youth and vets we really should be trying to contend asap.

I am quite frankly sick of years like the last 2 and would like to see some positive steps forward for this franchise. Trading perhaps are best player for lesser pieces just makes having some more down years all the more likely.
I understand your impatience but that would amount to going all in for 1 shot and then starting over. If you are doing that you have to spend other assets to make sure you surround him with enough talent to win, not just contend.

With the parity in the league and the variation in results, having the best team in the league is no guarantee of winning the cup in any one year. You can get goalied and eliminated in the first round. You can get a couple of injuries and eliminated in the 2nd round. Or those things can hit you in the SCF and you get swept by a weaker team.

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04-18-2017, 07:29 PM
  #55
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**** trading Trouba - do whatever it takes to get him signed this summer and be done with it. Anything else is just settling, and putting the franchise back a step. He's a #1D, and he's 23. Lock him up for 8 years.

Don't want Krug, prospect and a pick - I want to ****ing start winning. Way too much talent strewn throughout the line-up to take a step in the wrong direction.

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04-18-2017, 07:32 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Interesting.

Assuming for a minute Jacob still might want out I wonder if it is a done deal or a strong push next season into the playoffs might help change his mind? Maybe or maybe not I guess.

Assuming for a second his play was similar next season I wonder how much his trade value would change over the next 14 months and no this is not rhetorical?
Even assuming another season like this one, or better because he plays more games his trade value would drop, IMO because he is then already at the first arb level. An acquiring team might be able to sign him long term but they would know he is getting awfully close to magic UFA time. Even if we gave them permission to talk to him it would have some dampening effect because we can't just throw it wide open and let everybody talk to him freely to try and get competing offers. They would put the competing effort into enticing him rather than enhancing their trade offer.

The dynamics would just have to lower his value to some extent - some unknowable but real extent.

Then there is the risk of injury. Of course that has to affect his willingness to stay on the road to UFA too so it is hard to predict.

That's why I think we should hit him and Overhardt with a seriously strong offer ASAP. Give the team some certainty and give the same to him. If he turns it down we know which way the wind blows - and we don't need a weatherman.

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04-18-2017, 07:33 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Hobble View Post
Isn't krug considered a PP specialist pretty much?
No. He is very good both ways. He is what Toby is supposed to be, or what he used to be.

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04-18-2017, 07:36 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
No. He is very good both ways. He is what Toby is supposed to be, or what he used to be.
His small frame won't last in the NHL.

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Old
04-18-2017, 07:49 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
**** trading Trouba - do whatever it takes to get him signed this summer and be done with it. Anything else is just settling, and putting the franchise back a step. He's a #1D, and he's 23. Lock him up for 8 years.

Don't want Krug, prospect and a pick - I want to ****ing start winning. Way too much talent strewn throughout the line-up to take a step in the wrong direction.
Yea I am 110% for this option. My discussions around Trouba are based solely on "what if" he has no interest staying here long term.

I feel your frustration because some years in the past I watched the playoffs and thought we didn't belong as far as contending. This season watching our young pier group (Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary) emerge from the ash-heap of last season and ascend to not just showing up but kicking ass has got me a bit frustrated (FIX THE ****ING NET) but also encouraged. Most of the old guard feel much less intimidating and it feels like there is a changing of the guard happening. We belong and its our time I DO NOT want to be sitting on my couch next year at this time watching other teams pass us by, I want to be wearing white and spending too much money on playoff games at MTC centre.


Last edited by ps241: 04-18-2017 at 08:01 PM.
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Old
04-18-2017, 07:59 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
**** trading Trouba - do whatever it takes to get him signed this summer and be done with it. Anything else is just settling, and putting the franchise back a step. He's a #1D, and he's 23. Lock him up for 8 years.

Don't want Krug, prospect and a pick - I want to ****ing start winning. Way too much talent strewn throughout the line-up to take a step in the wrong direction.
I'm in this camp too. 8 x 8 or whatever it takes.

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04-18-2017, 08:06 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by lakewinnipeg View Post
Per Sherreli

Says Boston was close to acquiring Trouba last off-season and Jets would have made the deal if Boston budged on few issues.

Looks like Boston now would offer Krug, 1st round pick, prospect likely Jeremy Lauzon.
I would be open to that deal. SO essentially:

To Boston:

Jacob Trouba, D (23)

To Winnipeg:

#19 Overall pick 2017
Torey Krug, D (26)
Jeremy Lauzon, D (19)

It would certainly help our defensive depth. While Trouba is the best player in the deal, and I hate to get rid of him, I would not mind Krug at all. We can get rid of Stuart once and for all. The Bruins would have to offer up a better prospect than Lauzon.

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04-18-2017, 08:25 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by gbill2004 View Post
His small frame won't last in the NHL.
Any other small dman in the league. [mod]


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 04-18-2017 at 08:51 PM. Reason: OT
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Old
04-18-2017, 09:14 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
I understand your impatience but that would amount to going all in for 1 shot and then starting over. If you are doing that you have to spend other assets to make sure you surround him with enough talent to win, not just contend.

With the parity in the league and the variation in results, having the best team in the league is no guarantee of winning the cup in any one year. You can get goalied and eliminated in the first round. You can get a couple of injuries and eliminated in the 2nd round. Or those things can hit you in the SCF and you get swept by a weaker team.
How much less do you think his value would be at the trade deadline in 3 years time heading to UFA. You would get a Shattenkirk haul and two years to contend prior to. It took Chicago until it's second year to win a cup once they took their step forward. Even if we don't quite follow their model at least we make ourselves more attractive to other players if we start winning and open up more options. It also gives us some time to train a or acquire some potential replacements without taking a step back.

Also trading our elite assets imo is like starting over as as a franchise we take a step back which wastes more years of Scheifele's prime, the rest of Wheeler, Buff and Little's good years. You start trading our elite talent for lesser talent you might as well blow it up and start over again. I only trade Trouba for an equivilant player or an overpay. He doesn't want to sign then he can have fun making less money in arbitration the next few years.


Last edited by surixon: 04-18-2017 at 09:21 PM.
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Old
04-18-2017, 09:17 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Yea I am 110% for this option. My discussions around Trouba are based solely on "what if" he has no interest staying here long term.

I feel your frustration because some years in the past I watched the playoffs and thought we didn't belong as far as contending. This season watching our young pier group (Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary) emerge from the ash-heap of last season and ascend to not just showing up but kicking ass has got me a bit frustrated (FIX THE ****ING NET) but also encouraged. Most of the old guard feel much less intimidating and it feels like there is a changing of the guard happening. We belong and its our time I DO NOT want to be sitting on my couch next year at this time watching other teams pass us by, I want to be wearing white and spending too much money on playoff games at MTC centre.
Nice to see more people on this train. I'm also sick of mediocrity and also feel we belong with the big boys of the league if we get a goalie and Maurice gets smart I'm a couple of things.

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Old
04-18-2017, 09:40 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
How much less do you think his value would be at the trade deadline in 3 years time heading to UFA. You would get a Shattenkirk haul and two years to contend prior to. It took Chicago until it's second year to win a cup once they took their step forward. Even if we don't quite follow their model at least we make ourselves more attractive to other players if we start winning and open up more options. It also gives us some time to train a or acquire some potential replacements without taking a step back.

Also trading our elite assets imo is like starting over as as a franchise we take a step back which wastes more years of Scheifele's prime, the rest of Wheeler, Buff and Little's good years. You start trading our elite talent for lesser talent you might as well blow it up and start over again. I only trade Trouba for an equivilant player or an overpay. He doesn't want to sign then he can have fun making less money in arbitration the next few years.
I really don't think we get Trouba on an eight year deal. It doesn't make sense for someone as confident in his ability and with his agent not to maximize his contracts. IMO we go right to the face of arbitration with Trouba and get a 4-5 year deal at pretty close to UFA money. The price to pay for getting 2 years cheap on an RFA. Also sets Trouba up for the big UFA contract in his late 20's in the heart of his prime. IMO that will be the best possible outcome if Chevy is able to grind it out down to the wire.

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04-18-2017, 10:56 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
That's why I think we should hit him and Overhardt with a seriously strong offer ASAP. Give the team some certainty and give the same to him. If he turns it down we know which way the wind blows - and we don't need a weatherman.
Really agree with this. Seems too decisive for Chevy of course.

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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Also trading our elite assets imo is like starting over as as a franchise we take a step back which wastes more years of Scheifele's prime, the rest of Wheeler, Buff and Little's good years.
The step back I'm afraid of is maurice not working out and the team struggling to make or stay in the playoffs for the next couple years and then just starting to put it together in year 3 and then losing our best defenceman for nothing and there's no one in the system half as good. Then what?

Find out if he's in or out and if he's out get rid of him for the king's ransom that we would get. Holding onto him in hopes we need him for a cup run within 3 years or that he might change his mind is terrible asset management.

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04-18-2017, 11:52 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakewinnipeg View Post
Per Sherreli

Says Boston was close to acquiring Trouba last off-season and Jets would have made the deal if Boston budged on few issues.

Looks like Boston now would offer Krug, 1st round pick, prospect likely Jeremy Lauzon.
Trouba, at 23 years of age, appears to be the real deal.

Bottom line he and his agent knew their worth & also knew the reality of the Jets defensive woes.

Trouba's current deal shows both sides know exactly how this game is played

Trouba understands Enstrom's contact expires and negotiated for his to be reviewed at the same time in 2018. Nearly $6 million in cap space becomes available. This can become a real "show me the money moment."

Chevy knows if things don't go his way, Myers goes UFA the following year coinciding with Trouba achieving his earliest potential status as a UFA. Any ongoing health issues with Myers raise Trouba's value, whereas a stellar season from Tyler steals some thunder from the Trouba camp & opens the door for plan B, Chevy extending Myers long term & trading Trouba.

Interesting days are ahead.


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Old
04-19-2017, 11:54 AM
  #68
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Do you trust your management?

To me, the Trouba situation is somewhat similar to the Kessel situation in that it seems you need to move the player in order to move forward (I am assuming that Trouba wants out).

The net result for trading Kessel looks to be:
Andersen
Kapanen
Kerby Rychel (who had a very good season for the AHL Marlies and remains a good prospect)
Connor Carrick (included as "payment" for the Leafs taking on the salary of Brooks Laich which was possible because of trading Kessel's cap hit)

That is 4 young assets...Picking up multiple young assets can work provided your management/scouting/development is competent.

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04-19-2017, 11:57 AM
  #69
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Do you trust your management?
Hee hee. New around here?

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04-19-2017, 12:00 PM
  #70
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Hee hee. New around here?
I am a Leafs fan...At the start of the season I really thought the Jets would make the playoffs.

Perhaps you can solve your goalie situation with Trouba (in the same way it seems that the Leafs have - though it's still too early to tell)

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04-19-2017, 12:17 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by apollo678 View Post
I am a Leafs fan...At the start of the season I really thought the Jets would make the playoffs.

Perhaps you can solve your goalie situation with Trouba (in the same way it seems that the Leafs have - though it's still too early to tell)
I don't think that's a wise approach. There isn't a shortage of league average goaltending. There is a shortage, relatively speaking, of 23 year old top pairing RHD. What hasn't happened in Winnipeg is that management hasn't bothered to address their goaltending issues in six years. To be fair I was firmly on the Hellebuyck train last fall and it didn't work out, so I can't be overly critical about this most recent season (other than to say they could have addressed it DURING the season). The prior five years however... So using a top caliber defender to acquire a goaltender isn't a good approach when you can just sign a league average goaltender during the offseason or trade far less valuable assets to acquire one.

On Trouba, so long as he's willing to sign here, sign him. Pay him more than Buff if you have to on an extension because it won't kick in until Toby's current deal is done. If he's unwilling to stay, move him sooner rather than later. Resolve it one way or another this summer.

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04-19-2017, 12:18 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by apollo678 View Post
I am a Leafs fan...At the start of the season I really thought the Jets would make the playoffs.

Perhaps you can solve your goalie situation with Trouba (in the same way it seems that the Leafs have - though it's still too early to tell)
Trading Trouba for a goalie would be a terrible move.

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04-19-2017, 12:20 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
**** trading Trouba - do whatever it takes to get him signed this summer and be done with it. Anything else is just settling, and putting the franchise back a step. He's a #1D, and he's 23. Lock him up for 8 years.

Don't want Krug, prospect and a pick - I want to ****ing start winning. Way too much talent strewn throughout the line-up to take a step in the wrong direction.
Amen!

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04-19-2017, 12:24 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by gbill2004 View Post
Trading Trouba for a goalie would be a terrible move.
I should clarify that the Leafs traded Kessel for picks...the first rounder was used to get Andersen. I think the Leafs were able to take advantage of the somewhat soft market for goalies. Perhaps your management can spot other market opportunities.

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04-19-2017, 12:28 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by apollo678 View Post
I should clarify that the Leafs traded Kessel for picks...the first rounder was used to get Andersen. I think the Leafs were able to take advantage of the somewhat soft market for goalies. Perhaps your management can spot other market opportunities.
We have seen enough of our defense without Trouba to see that trading him is simply not beneficial. Trading for a goalie should not require Trouba to in the conversation at all.

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