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Jets players and MRIs

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Old
04-19-2017, 10:50 PM
  #51
Holden Caulfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Channelcat View Post
Ya! as long as we have our pro sports we will sacrifice anything, say anything and pay any amount of money.
Quote me where I said that. Go ahead try.

This is not about the process the Jets use to get their MRI's done. I am not an expert in how that works, I don't know the process. There are people that do that sort of thing, go talk to them.

The quote above is plain and simple that Wiecek is saying that NHL players have less rights as human beings than other citizens/residents because of their profession. I fundamentally disagree with that entire notion. That is a very slippery slope. Going any further into that is going to stray into politics. Clearly Wiecek has zero concept of canadian law or our constitution.

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04-19-2017, 11:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Good point, just having the NHL back here also contributes millions of dollars annually in additional tax revenue that wouldn't be here. That money can go back into the Healthcare system to improve the quality of care for everyone else. Yeah there are certain things like quick access that maybe people like us may not like but when Scheifele's tax bill can fund the purchase of 1 MRI on its own or pay for 5 additional Drs perhaps we shouldn't complain to loudly.
That's an odd rationalization and goes against the concept of a public resource. So if someone is paying a higher amount of taxes that entitles them to a higher quality of service than those who are not? Why stop at NHL players? What about business owners who pay higher taxes and employ people? By this logic we shouldn't be complaining too loudly about them getting preferential treatment. It's a slippary slope that leads to mutiple tiers of service within a public system. I am not saying that the Jets should not get timely access to medical equippment, but folks shouldn't be using how much taxes the players are paying or how much tax revenue having the hockey team generates as a crutch to defend it. Within the confines of any public system, how much taxes you pay, or how many people you employ is irrelevant.

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04-20-2017, 01:28 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
The quote above is plain and simple that Wiecek is saying that NHL players have less rights as human beings than other citizens/residents because of their profession. I fundamentally disagree with that entire notion. That is a very slippery slope. Going any further into that is going to stray into politics. Clearly Wiecek has zero concept of canadian law or our constitution.
Technically this is true to some extent. Person in very public profession can't expect to enjoy, even legally, quite the same privacy as a wholly private person. Politicians especially kind on have to be under public scrutiny because they need to enjoy the public trust.

BUT none of this applies to person's medical records or the strong legal protection bestowed on it. From this point of view the much ridiculed "upper body", "lower body" reporting by the NHL teams looks only sensible, at least when the player himself has not cleared to have the ailment publiziced.

It's not "bad judgement" anymore, Wiecek is stupid and wrong if arguing this, especially if he is to be undestood to be a representative of the newspaper when giving these kind of statements.

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04-20-2017, 01:34 AM
  #54
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I don't have a problem with Pro Sports athletes getting fast and effective MRIs done, because their livelihood is tied directly in to their physical body in a more impactful way the 98% of the general populace. However, you would think that True North and the Winnipeg Jets would have access to private facilities and private technology, and wouldn't use public ones.

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04-20-2017, 01:40 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Did Wiecek actually say that? What an idiot.
And stuff like this is why I hate Paul Wiecek. He is so intent on the negative narrative and has a completely holier-than-thou and cavalier attitude towards things like protection and privacy. He's a ******, and I'd rather have Lawless blow smoke up my ass.


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Old
04-20-2017, 06:01 AM
  #56
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We're getting awfully close to political talk here - try to keep it on the subject of preferential treatment of certain individuals, and the media's indiscretion regarding medical records. Thanks.

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04-20-2017, 07:19 AM
  #57
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I have no idea how Wiecek has kept his job.He always comes across as a angry,bitter ,small minded man.It infests everything he writes.

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04-20-2017, 07:21 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsFan815 View Post
That's an odd rationalization and goes against the concept of a public resource. So if someone is paying a higher amount of taxes that entitles them to a higher quality of service than those who are not? Why stop at NHL players? What about business owners who pay higher taxes and employ people? By this logic we shouldn't be complaining too loudly about them getting preferential treatment. It's a slippary slope that leads to mutiple tiers of service within a public system. I am not saying that the Jets should not get timely access to medical equippment, but folks shouldn't be using how much taxes the players are paying or how much tax revenue having the hockey team generates as a crutch to defend it. Within the confines of any public system, how much taxes you pay, or how many people you employ is irrelevant.
Ahh but preferential treatment runs rampant all over the place even if its not visible, big businesses get incentives to set up shop in cities to create jobs etc. Listen I'm not advocating for a two tiered health care system but in order for the professional sport industry to strive and compete they require expedited access to medical care. Without it they wouldnt be able to compete and would move sonewhere where they will receive it. As such agreements where made likely due to the fact that the industry is contributing positively to the economy and society of the province. Its also not like the Jets currently habe the option to ise private clinics here. By the waybi liked the Sask MRI system. It's not really much different than other major companies getting certain incentives to be in this city and to employ people.

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04-20-2017, 08:57 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
According to Wiecek professional athletes aren't deserving of the same medical privacy as us ordinary citizens>

And third, the whole idea that pro athletes have any entitlement to medical privacy when we are all paying their salaries in the form of tickets and the teams are being subsidized to a greater (Bombers) or lesser (Jets) extent by taxpayer dollars is, in itself, bogus.

You want your shoulder problem kept private? Get a real job and nobody will care.


I've actual read most of the PHIA legislation and no where does it say individuals in certain professions have more or less rights under the law.
Wiecek is a moron.

I am conflicted on the story overall though.

I am totally fine with athletes getting and MRI as fast as possible but that comes from the hockey fan in me. The realist feels like this is not right on a moral scale.

That being said, I don't know what the proper answer is. If Laine missed an additional 3 weeks because we couldn't get him an MRI in Manitoba, I would be PISSED.

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04-20-2017, 09:14 AM
  #60
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i don't have much to add that won't go in the more political realm, but this is an interesting discussion you guys are having, particularly for me since i've been in the states for 16 years now.

I will say that there are pros and cons to living in any country/society, and in general am opposed morally to using the money you've made (that is partially a product of the country/society you live in), to negate some of the cons (such as waiting lists) if there are no offsetting benefits for your country/society.

Unfortunately with the publication of names, the story will turn away from what it should have been (queue jumping) to a serious breach in privacy from the media. Dumb move - the story would have stood on its own without specific names.

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04-20-2017, 09:59 AM
  #61
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This discussion reminds me of this book I read in high school.


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Old
04-20-2017, 10:07 AM
  #62
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Why don't Jets buy an MRI? 1-3mil plus operations, which is about equivalent to 1-2 years of Thorburn.

Government gives incentives to Jets to allow public use when not needed by Jets, and to compensate for upkeep/maintenance.

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04-20-2017, 10:23 AM
  #63
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All i can say is when i had a seizure out of the blue about 10 years ago , they had me in for a MRI 4 days later and results 3 days after . Then i had a MRI done every 3 months for 2 years , then 1 every 6 months , then 1 a year and the care i got was fantastic . So i can't say anything but good things about my experience with the system .

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Old
04-20-2017, 10:27 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
And just to be clear: it bugs me that a pro athlete can get in the next day, while someone like truck needs to wait over a year for proper treatment. It's wrong. Blatant queue-jumping is a very real problem in many provinces, and I could talk nonstop about it.

The privacy breach bugs me more, though. Wiecek trying to sound like an expert by (poorly and incorrectly) quoting the Canada Health Act, yet he sure seems to have a cavalier attitude towards privacy acts.
Ya, it demonstrates the problems with the Canadian health care system and how bad it is, specifically for those in need of care like this. The teams and others that can afford it should use a private clinic that they pay for, which in turn helps the public system.

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04-20-2017, 10:28 AM
  #65
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If PRO athletes can't get quick access to MRI's in this town you might as well pack up all the PRO sports teams and move them. Off topic but what exactly would be wrong with private MRI's ie. Saskatchewan!

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04-20-2017, 10:30 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Hobble View Post
Why don't Jets buy an MRI? 1-3mil plus operations, which is about equivalent to 1-2 years of Thorburn.

Government gives incentives to Jets to allow public use when not needed by Jets, and to compensate for upkeep/maintenance.
I agree but then you are getting into the politics of a private medical clinic, which would be good and beneficial to Canadian health care. Perfect demonstration of how private clinics help the public system. All of the high ranking countries in healthcare have essentially a 2 tier system.

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04-20-2017, 10:31 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
If PRO athletes can't get quick access to MRI's in this town you might as well pack up all the PRO sports teams and move them. Off topic but what exactly would be wrong with private MRI's ie. Saskatchewan!
It would be smart.

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04-20-2017, 12:07 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Crocket View Post
Ya, it demonstrates the problems with the Canadian health care system and how bad it is, specifically for those in need of care like this. The teams and others that can afford it should use a private clinic that they pay for, which in turn helps the public system.
I don't see a problem with a two-tier system as long as resources aren't taken away from the lower tier. Set up a higher tier by getting new equipment, operators and facilities -- don't use the same ones the proletariat use. Charge people two or three times the costs all-in, flow the profits into the lower tier to defray the costs there or add new resources. Seems win-win to me as long as it doesn't detract from the lower tier.

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04-20-2017, 12:11 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Board Bard View Post
I don't see a problem with a two-tier system as long as resources aren't taken away from the lower tier. Set up a higher tier by getting new equipment, operators and facilities -- don't use the same ones the proletariat use. Charge people two or three times the costs all-in, flow the profits into the lower tier to defray the costs there or add new resources. Seems win-win to me as long as it doesn't detract from the lower tier.
These are my thoughts as well.

IIRC at one point there were private MRI services offered at Maples Surgical Centre (maybe the still do?), but it wasn't a high quality machine.

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04-20-2017, 12:17 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Board Bard View Post
I don't see a problem with a two-tier system as long as resources aren't taken away from the lower tier. Set up a higher tier by getting new equipment, operators and facilities -- don't use the same ones the proletariat use. Charge people two or three times the costs all-in, flow the profits into the lower tier to defray the costs there or add new resources. Seems win-win to me as long as it doesn't detract from the lower tier.
Problem though is to set up the upper tier there has to be incentive for someone to do so. Generally that incentive is profit. So your suggestion of flowing the profits to the lower tier scuttles any incentive to create that second tier. Why would any private business open a clinic at their own cost just to watch the government take away all the profit?

Prior to the NDP winning in 1999 there were private MRIs in the city. Pan Am functioned as a private clinic (without an MRI) but the NDP didn't like the two tier system that was starting to form, so they bought out the Pan Am clinic and made it public (by purchasing the clinic from the owners). Which is what it remains today. Not saying it's right or wrong (trying to stay apolitical other than mentioning when and who made the decision) just confirming they used to exist. And by "they" I mean privatized medical facilities, including formerly private MRI locations in addition to clinical settings without MRIs.

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04-20-2017, 12:33 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by buggs View Post
Problem though is to set up the upper tier there has to be incentive for someone to do so. Generally that incentive is profit. So your suggestion of flowing the profits to the lower tier scuttles any incentive to create that second tier. Why would any private business open a clinic at their own cost just to watch the government take away all the profit?

Prior to the NDP winning in 1999 there were private MRIs in the city. Pan Am functioned as a private clinic (without an MRI) but the NDP didn't like the two tier system that was starting to form, so they bought out the Pan Am clinic and made it public (by purchasing the clinic from the owners). Which is what it remains today. Not saying it's right or wrong (trying to stay apolitical other than mentioning when and who made the decision) just confirming they used to exist. And by "they" I mean privatized medical facilities, including formerly private MRI locations in addition to clinical settings without MRIs.
Theoretically that could be handled two ways. The government could set up its own upper tier and charge an arm and a leg (whichever one isn't being MRIed) to use it. Of course, you'd want something streamlined without a bloated bureaucracy behind it in order to maximize the monetary return, and most governments can't see far enough past their own re-election chances to manage that.

Or let the private sector have it, with their profits, but have the government charge them a hefty licensing fee or something. There should be enough money available in a higher tier to satisfy both parties.

Like you said, they've existed before in Manitoba in one form or another, and they exist in other jurisdictions. The important thing, IMO, is to at least maintain the opportunities in the lower tier while adding another, more lucrative tier to vent some of the stress on the system. What it comes down to in the end is, what's more important to the decision makers -- better service or idealogy?

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04-20-2017, 12:47 PM
  #72
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These are my thoughts as well.

IIRC at one point there were private MRI services offered at Maples Surgical Centre (maybe the still do?), but it wasn't a high quality machine.
For a short period of time. They were eventually absorbed into the public system and could no longer accept private user-pay bookings. Manitoba Health referrals were discontinued eventually over concerns about the quality of the scanner. Doesn't look like MRI services are still offered.

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Old
04-20-2017, 12:49 PM
  #73
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WTF they released patient names on either side? How did no one catch that at the Freep?

It has no bearing on the story either way.

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Old
04-20-2017, 01:13 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I waited 11 months for an MRI on my torn knee. ACL and meniscus. Surgery a few months after that.
When I tore my ACL 4 years ago I got an MRI after 4 months via the cancellation list and had the surgery 2 months later. I would have to assume you didn't put your name on the list.

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04-20-2017, 03:12 PM
  #75
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When I tore my ACL 4 years ago I got an MRI after 4 months via the cancellation list and had the surgery 2 months later. I would have to assume you didn't put your name on the list.
That's likely a poor assumption. The system is all over the place. I got an MRI for a torn cartilage in my knee very quickly based on the wait list (cancellation list). My wife conversely waited much, much longer on two occasions (one neck/spine, one knee) in spite of being on the cancellation list immediately. One time when she did actually get in after waiting for 8 months it was via cancellation list and she drove to Winkler/Morden to get the MRI done. She was also bumped once from her original scheduled appointment.

Be thankful you got in quickly as it does not work that way for everyone, cancellation list or not.

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