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Who are the Jets losing to expansion? Better question is who are we getting!

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Old
04-21-2017, 11:25 AM
  #51
Gm0ney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Fonzarelli View Post
Enstrom, Myers, 4-4-1,7-3-1 have all been done to death.

This 2nd page has really went off the rails rehashing the same thoughts from the same people. I even joined in myself with regards to Enstrom, finding myself typing in previous responses verbatim to past posts.

Rather shocked to see 12,000 people looked at this over 24 hours, but few commented.

I'm hoping for some insight on:

1) Players likely unprotected from the other 29 teams
2) What 30 players Vegas then selects from the above list
3) What 7 players Vegas then trades to bring their roster to 23 & what they will be looking for to build their farm system
4) What Jets forwards/prospects we use as currency to trade for either the goaltenders & defensemen that Vegas has acquired.

So far we spoke of Pittsburgh, the Islanders & Minnesota. 26 more to go!
Anaheim: Bieksa has a NMC...you buy him out and protect 4D - Vatanen, Lindholm, Fowler and Manson? But then Anaheim doesn't have any D that meet the exposure requirements. And they can only protect 4 forwards - and Perry, Getzlaf and Kesler all have NMCs so they can only protect 1 of: Silfverberg, Cogliano and Rakell. What's their final list look like? You have to think they're going to either make some trades or make a deal with Vegas. I think it'll be a pick/prospect and Vegas takes Cogliano.

Arizona: Wow...who cares? This team can protect what few decent players it has and expose nothing but unadulterated crap to Vegas. But! Maybe we can send them something for something - Myers for a pick and/or an exempt forward or defense prospect? Wood? DeAngelo?

Boston seems straightforward. D protect Chara (NMC), Krug and McQuaid. F protect Backes, Krejci, Bergeron (all NMCs), Pasternak, Marchand, Spooner, Belesky(? or Hayes?). Exposed: D - C. Miller, K. Miller, Morrow, Casto, Arneson; F - Hayes, Nash, Schaller, Randall, Ferlin; G - Khudobin, Subban.

Someone do the next 3... This site is pretty handy but doesn't let you buy out players so you have to do your own math there.
https://planmyteam.com/NHL/ProtectPlayers

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04-25-2017, 02:53 AM
  #52
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4-4-1

Hellebuyck
Scheifele
Wheeler
Little
Perreault
Byfuglien
Enstrom
Myers
Trouba

Jets either lose Lowry or trade assets to keep him.

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05-01-2017, 02:21 AM
  #53
Arthur Fonzarelli
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There's a good chance a number of these LSD will be available at the expansion draft:

1) UFA 2018-Jack Johnson (30)
2) RFA 2017-Calvin De Haan (25)
3) UFA 2018-Brayden McNabb (24)
4) RFA 2017-Jamie Oleksiak (24)
5) RFA 2017-Xavier Ouellet (23)
6) RFA 2017-Griffin Reinhart (23) entry level
7) RFA 2017-Mirco Mueller (22) entry level

Would the Jets have interest in any of the above?

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05-01-2017, 08:00 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Anaheim: Bieksa has a NMC...you buy him out and protect 4D - Vatanen, Lindholm, Fowler and Manson? But then Anaheim doesn't have any D that meet the exposure requirements. And they can only protect 4 forwards - and Perry, Getzlaf and Kesler all have NMCs so they can only protect 1 of: Silfverberg, Cogliano and Rakell. What's their final list look like? You have to think they're going to either make some trades or make a deal with Vegas. I think it'll be a pick/prospect and Vegas takes Cogliano.

Arizona: Wow...who cares? This team can protect what few decent players it has and expose nothing but unadulterated crap to Vegas. But! Maybe we can send them something for something - Myers for a pick and/or an exempt forward or defense prospect? Wood? DeAngelo?

Boston seems straightforward. D protect Chara (NMC), Krug and McQuaid. F protect Backes, Krejci, Bergeron (all NMCs), Pasternak, Marchand, Spooner, Belesky(? or Hayes?). Exposed: D - C. Miller, K. Miller, Morrow, Casto, Arneson; F - Hayes, Nash, Schaller, Randall, Ferlin; G - Khudobin, Subban.

Someone do the next 3... This site is pretty handy but doesn't let you buy out players so you have to do your own math there.
https://planmyteam.com/NHL/ProtectPlayers
Why are we offering Myers?
Just expose the guy then
But even then it's silly expose one of your best dman for nothing

Risk losing Lowry a 4th liner

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05-01-2017, 02:37 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Fonzarelli View Post
There's a good chance a number of these LSD will be available at the expansion draft:

1) UFA 2018-Jack Johnson (30)
2) RFA 2017-Calvin De Haan (25)
3) UFA 2018-Brayden McNabb (24)
4) RFA 2017-Jamie Oleksiak (24)
5) RFA 2017-Xavier Ouellet (23)
6) RFA 2017-Griffin Reinhart (23) entry level
7) RFA 2017-Mirco Mueller (22) entry level

I assume you mean left shot defensemen. Can't make the other fit that sentence.

Would the Jets have interest in any of the above?
Red is hot. Yellow a little cooler, but interested.

The others, not much.

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05-01-2017, 08:51 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Fonzarelli View Post
There's a good chance a number of these LSD will be available at the expansion draft:

1) UFA 2018-Jack Johnson (30)
2) RFA 2017-Calvin De Haan (25)
3) UFA 2018-Brayden McNabb (24)
4) RFA 2017-Jamie Oleksiak (24)
5) RFA 2017-Xavier Ouellet (23)
6) RFA 2017-Griffin Reinhart (23) entry level
7) RFA 2017-Mirco Mueller (22) entry level

Would the Jets have interest in any of the above?
I like De Haan, McNabb and Ouellet. Pass on Johnson and Reinhart. I don't know enough about Oleksiak or Mueller to say. I'd add Depres, Manson and Van Riemsdyk to consideration.


Last edited by Bastage: 05-01-2017 at 09:13 PM. Reason: added choices
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05-01-2017, 11:01 PM
  #57
Arthur Fonzarelli
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Originally Posted by Bastage View Post
I like De Haan, McNabb and Ouellet. Pass on Johnson and Reinhart. I don't know enough about Oleksiak or Mueller to say. I'd add Depres, Manson and Van Riemsdyk to consideration.
I left out Chicago's Van Riemsdyk as he's a RSD, but do believe that Vegas will grab him if available. I don't think the Jets would have interest however as we're rather deep at RD with Trouba, Byfuglien & Myers.

If there's any truth to the speculation involving Trouba, I guess a right side with Byfuglien, Myers & Van Riemsdyk is more than acceptable. The return would have to be huge & many fans have thrown Eichel or Drouin's names out there...

...but lets not overcomplicate the matter at hand. Roster speculation is already difficult enough without getting into pre expansion trade deals that cloud things even more.

Back on topic, Manson also shoots right, so I didn't consider him as a Jets target, but I also didn't have Vegas selecting him from Anaheim, but rather Silfverberg who has to have significantly more value than either Manson or LSD's like Depres (or Fowler who will likely be protected)

McNabb's UFA status is a year away so I rule him out as well. I'd much rather be bartering with Vegas on good young cost controlled RFA's like De Haan & Ouellet.

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Old
05-01-2017, 11:18 PM
  #58
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I would drop Armia because we could potentially get him back very easily. Vegas will likely place him in the press box or in the minors in which we could get him back if they take him.

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05-01-2017, 11:31 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by FiddlerClitsomeMoore View Post
I would drop Armia because we could potentially get him back very easily. Vegas will likely place him in the press box or in the minors in which we could get him back if they take him.
I could easily see Armia selected by Vegas, he'd fit in very well with what could be a largely European roster.

Whether or not Vegas subsequently deals him or plays him is another question. One thing is certain, Armia's AHL days are done. He would need to clear waivers. Regardless of where he ends up he'd have to play himself down to the minor league level & Armia is certainly trending upwards.

But this thread isn't about who we're losing to expansion, but rather what we can gain & what assets Chevy may have to give up to acquire some of the coveted players that Vegas will select.

Vegas can't keep all 30 of their selections. The same reasoning from above involving Armia is precisely why Vegas will need to trade at least 7 of their 30 expansion selections. There won't be a player they select that they'll be able to send to the minors once they declare their 23 man roster & they'll need some semblance of a farm system. Enter the Jets.

I'd guess 2-4 Jets prospects are done with this organization. Whether it's A prospects like Connor & Roslovic, roster players like Tanev & Petan, or lower end prospects like Harkins, Lemieux, De Leo, Lodge, Lipon...the time to move this organizations forward depth to strengthen our defence is now.


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05-02-2017, 06:15 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Arthur Fonzarelli View Post
I could easily see Armia selected by Vegas, he'd fit in very well with what could be a largely European roster.

Whether or not Vegas subsequently deals him or plays him is another question. One thing is certain, Armia's AHL days are done. He would need to clear waivers. Regardless of where he ends up he'd have to play himself down to the minor league level & Armia is certainly trending upwards.

But this thread isn't about who we're losing to expansion, but rather what we can gain & what assets Chevy may have to give up to acquire some of the coveted players that Vegas will select.

Vegas can't keep all 30 of their selections. The same reasoning from above involving Armia is precisely why Vegas will need to trade at least 7 of their 30 expansion selections. There won't be a player they select that they'll be able to send to the minors once they declare their 23 man roster & they'll need some semblance of a farm system. Enter the Jets.

I'd guess 2-4 Jets prospects are done with this organization. Whether it's A prospects like Connor & Roslovic, roster players like Tanev & Petan, or lower end prospects like Harkins, Lemieux, De Leo, Lodge, Lipon...the time to move this organizations forward depth to strengthen our defence is now.
That's if they did 30 straight selections. More likely there will be a handful of deals made during the actual draft process where they obtain pick/prospect instead of a roster player, or agree to pick roster player they don't worry about waiving for a nice sweetener. There may still be some post XD moves but I don't know if you can count on there being 7 NHL players sitting there they need to moved at a discount.

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05-02-2017, 12:01 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
4-4-1

Hellebuyck
Scheifele
Wheeler
Little
Perreault
Byfuglien
Enstrom
Myers
Trouba

Jets either lose Lowry or trade assets to keep him.
I wouldn't but I think Chevy protects Lowry over MP.

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05-02-2017, 01:10 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
That's if they did 30 straight selections. More likely there will be a handful of deals made during the actual draft process where they obtain pick/prospect instead of a roster player, or agree to pick roster player they don't worry about waiving for a nice sweetener. There may still be some post XD moves but I don't know if you can count on there being 7 NHL players sitting there they need to moved at a discount.
Unless you know differently, I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it's going to work.

The way some people talk around here has every NHL team working side deals prior to June 17th, tipping their hands on their protected lists, giving McPhee a seasoned GM a ton of insider information who can then share this information with another team, asking him to pick specific players, telling him to insist certain players are made available..working further side deals to make certain players available..then selecting them to trade them for another side deal worked out with another team...

ENOUGH!

This isn't a grand masters chess game.

How else other than "30 straight selections" would this work? Will McPhee be choosing alphabetically? In reverse order of the final regular season standings like the NHL draft? Pick a random team choose a player, pick another random team choose a player, choose a third random team & trade his first 2 selections in a "side deal" for draft picks? That sounds like collusion to me. Not gonna happen.

I'm pretty sure it's this simple.

Step 1: Protected list are submitted (June 17th)
Step 2: Vegas picks from the remaining list and hands in a 30 player list
Step 3: Trade talks ensue and go on behind closed doors for 3 days
Step 4: Roster is announced (June (21st)

I doubt any team is tipping their hat as to who they will make available. That information (or perhaps disinformation) can easily affect who other teams make available.

With minimum & maximum thresholds set for the amount of forwards, defensemen, goalies, 2017 contracts, minimum salary, maximum salary all in place, any team sharing information prior to June 17th is making things a whole lot easier for other GM's & certain GM's have MUCH bigger decisions to make than Chevy's small issue of "Lowry, Armia, Copp & Dano"


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05-02-2017, 07:57 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Arthur Fonzarelli View Post
Unless you know differently, I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it's going to work.

The way some people talk around here has every NHL team working side deals prior to June 17th, tipping their hands on their protected lists, giving McPhee a seasoned GM a ton of insider information who can then share this information with another team, asking him to pick specific players, telling him to insist certain players are made available..working further side deals to make certain players available..then selecting them to trade them for another side deal worked out with another team...

ENOUGH!

This isn't a grand masters chess game.

How else other than "30 straight selections" would this work? Will McPhee be choosing alphabetically? In reverse order of the final regular season standings like the NHL draft? Pick a random team choose a player, pick another random team choose a player, choose a third random team & trade his first 2 selections in a "side deal" for draft picks? That sounds like collusion to me. Not gonna happen.

I'm pretty sure it's this simple.

Step 1: Protected list are submitted (June 17th)
Step 2: Vegas picks from the remaining list and hands in a 30 player list
Step 3: Trade talks ensue and go on behind closed doors for 3 days
Step 4: Roster is announced (June (21st)

I doubt any team is tipping their hat as to who they will make available. That information (or perhaps disinformation) can easily affect who other teams make available.

With minimum & maximum thresholds set for the amount of forwards, defensemen, goalies, 2017 contracts, minimum salary, maximum salary all in place, any team sharing information prior to June 17th is making things a whole lot easier for other GM's & certain GM's have MUCH bigger decisions to make than Chevy's small issue of "Lowry, Armia, Copp & Dano"
Mcphee has said he is open to all offers and no doubt there will be some. There will be moves for LV to pick a player that is AHL fodder in exchange for a prospect or pick to go along with them. I highly doubt LV will be sitting there with 7 extra NHL players immediately following the draft.

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05-02-2017, 08:55 PM
  #64
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Mcphee has said he is open to all offers and no doubt there will be some. There will be moves for LV to pick a player that is AHL fodder in exchange for a prospect or pick to go along with them. I highly doubt LV will be sitting there with 7 extra NHL players immediately following the draft.
I'm hoping that McPhee still has one more Forsberg trade left in him.

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05-02-2017, 10:01 PM
  #65
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I would drop Armia because we could potentially get him back very easily. Vegas will likely place him in the press box or in the minors in which we could get him back if they take him.
So Armia is good enough to play on the Jets 3rd line, but he's not good enough to even crack the lineup of an expansion team??

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05-02-2017, 10:28 PM
  #66
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I wouldn't but I think Chevy protects Lowry over MP.
At the beginning I thought it would be best if we got rid of MP, but he picked up later in the season

He'd be a really good player to have to move up and down the 3rd and 2nd line

Lowry would be nice to have as a 4th line dman and on pp2
But don't think the Jets get hurt that bad losing him

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05-02-2017, 11:23 PM
  #67
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Maurice is in love with Lowry (as a player).
His desire to make a third line revolve around Lowry will really hurt this team going forward.

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05-03-2017, 01:40 AM
  #68
Arthur Fonzarelli
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Originally Posted by Mud Turtle View Post
Maurice is in love with Lowry (as a player).
His desire to make a third line revolve around Lowry will really hurt this team going forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
At the beginning I thought it would be best if we got rid of MP, but he picked up later in the season

He'd be a really good player to have to move up and down the 3rd and 2nd line

Lowry would be nice to have as a 4th line dman and on pp2
But don't think the Jets get hurt that bad losing him
2017-2018 contracts will play a role in who gets selected.

Lowry & Armia are already signed for next season whereas Copp & Dano aren't yet.

If Vegas believes that 10 better 2017 RFA's are available, Copp & Dano are secure, so that shifts the focus to Lowry & Armia.

My moneys on Armia being select if they don't chose Dano, but either fit my capfriendly mock draft that has Vegas selected a good number of Europeans.

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05-03-2017, 04:41 PM
  #69
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That's if they did 30 straight selections. More likely there will be a handful of deals made during the actual draft process where they obtain pick/prospect instead of a roster player, or agree to pick roster player they don't worry about waiving for a nice sweetener. There may still be some post XD moves but I don't know if you can count on there being 7 NHL players sitting there they need to moved at a discount.
I don't know exactly how this draft will be conducted but it must be very different with only 1 team 'drafting'. Basically LV gets a list of available players from each team. They then sit down and select their 30. There is no need, even no place for a process of pick one from the first team, pause, then one from the second and so on. LV just needs to produce a list of 30 players with one from each team. There isn't even a need for a draft order. There will be deals before that process and again after.

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05-03-2017, 05:21 PM
  #70
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It will go something like this...
Vegas gets everyone's lists.

Vegas gets on the phone and says, "Hey, I can draft so and so, what would you give me for him?"

They do this until they figure the best team they can ice with the best return in picks/prospects/players. For instance, if Raanta is available to them and they don't want him...they shop him around to see what they can get before they draft him.

It's going to be a crazy couple of days.

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05-03-2017, 05:25 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
I don't know exactly how this draft will be conducted but it must be very different with only 1 team 'drafting'. Basically LV gets a list of available players from each team. They then sit down and select their 30. There is no need, even no place for a process of pick one from the first team, pause, then one from the second and so on. LV just needs to produce a list of 30 players with one from each team. There isn't even a need for a draft order. There will be deals before that process and again after.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Ducky10 View Post
It will go something like this...
Vegas gets everyone's lists.

Vegas gets on the phone and says, "Hey, I can draft so and so, what would you give me for him?"

They do this until they figure the best team they can ice with the best return in picks/prospects/players. For instance, if Raanta is available to them and they don't want him...they shop him around to see what they can get before they draft him.

It's going to be a crazy couple of days.
Looks like as at least two people get it.

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05-03-2017, 06:35 PM
  #72
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Why does it say "who are we getting"?


Last edited by Peggy: 05-03-2017 at 09:31 PM.
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05-03-2017, 08:49 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
I don't know exactly how this draft will be conducted but it must be very different with only 1 team 'drafting'. Basically LV gets a list of available players from each team. They then sit down and select their 30. There is no need, even no place for a process of pick one from the first team, pause, then one from the second and so on. LV just needs to produce a list of 30 players with one from each team. There isn't even a need for a draft order. There will be deals before that process and again after.
Agreed it won't be a draft as is commonly imagined. LV will sort through who is left unprotected and make their selections. At the same time they will be fielding calls from many of the other 30 GM's looking to strike deals. Some of those deals will be for them to take **** contracts and/or AHL fodder in exchange for prospects and draft picks. My original point is they wouldn't simply have 30 NHL players after the draft but rather enough NHL players to ice a team and a good start on their farm team with some nice prospects and some AHL guys.

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05-05-2017, 03:51 AM
  #74
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Get rid of Enstrom !!!

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I wouldn't but I think Chevy protects Lowry over MP.
Make a deal with Enstrom- tell him to waive his No Move Clause, even if it costs you money, and a player. He's making around $ 5 mil per year, he's to small, and the Jet's won 7 straight games without him. I'd keep Perrault, as he looked good in the last quarter of 2017 season.

Vegas is going to need some experience on defence, so pay Toby $1 million or so to waive, which you'll save by keeping Myers at a cheaper annual cost, and much better Defenceman. You may want to throw in Petan, to make the deal more enticing to accept. I think Vegas would bite on this.

I think the key for the Jet's is get rid of overpaid Enstrom, and now is the perfect time, with a new team needing experienced players. It would take some wheeling and dealing, but if I were Chevy, this is the avenue I'd be looking at. Chevy is really not one to wheel and deal, but he has to IMO, as you don't want to lose MP.

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05-05-2017, 05:36 AM
  #75
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So Armia is good enough to play on the Jets 3rd line, but he's not good enough to even crack the lineup of an expansion team??
Yeah, but Vegas will have so many guys on their team due to acquiring many players in the expansion draft. If this were an old school expansion draft then he would be on the top 6, but considering the rules have changed he won't.

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