HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Jets FA/Trade goalie options

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-20-2017, 04:41 AM
  #26
Keystone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 262
vCash: 500
While I'm not necessarily advocating for him, I'd bet everything Elliot now ends up in Winnipeg next year. Checks all the Jets boxes. Assuming his playoffs and early struggles are enough to run him out of Calgary.

- Veteran
- Has played well in 1A/1B situations.
- Will come relatively cheap
- Won't require long term commitment
- Won't be a roadblock to Chevy, Helle, and "The Process"

Keystone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 05:58 AM
  #27
HannuJ
Registered User
 
HannuJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronno
Posts: 4,560
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
While I'm not necessarily advocating for him, I'd bet everything Elliot now ends up in Winnipeg next year. Checks all the Jets boxes. Assuming his playoffs and early struggles are enough to run him out of Calgary.

- Veteran
- Has played well in 1A/1B situations.
- Will come relatively cheap
- Won't require long term commitment
- Won't be a roadblock to Chevy, Helle, and "The Process"
you're not wrong. worried about his start and finish to the season. those were Pav-esque goals he let in during the playoffs

MAF: never a huge fan of his. honestly, if you can trade Stuart and a B-level prospect to Pitts (or a 3rd rnd pick), you can get him.

HannuJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:44 AM
  #28
scarbrow21
Registered User
 
scarbrow21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 166
vCash: 500
The problem with acquiring a Proven goalie like some suggest, and then if Helle becomes what we think he'll be we trade the goalie we acquired...look how that's working out for Dallas. Now their stuck with essentially 2 back ups for 10M+ and have been for years.

That was the whole point of the initial post. To show the comparison between the "Top" level guys available vs the solid back ups.

The real targets should be Kinkaid, Nillson, or Condon because the numbers they provide will A) best translate to the Jets, and B) will come in under 2M per on whatever term. These guys posted great numbers and are solid Veteran backups on lousy teams so their numbers could very well stay the same or improve with the Jets.

Darling would be great, but he's A) coming from a very good defensive team so his numbers might drop heavily on the Jets and B) he'll probably get over 3.5-4M per on term which also isn't what the Jets need.

scarbrow21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:55 AM
  #29
Pate
clap bombs **** moms
 
Pate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Friendly Manitoba
Country: Finland
Posts: 38,701
vCash: 69
Have never been sold on Brian Elliott, would rather look elsewhere..

Pate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:29 AM
  #30
truck
Registered User
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HannuJ View Post
you're not wrong. worried about his start and finish to the season. those were Pav-esque goals he let in during the playoffs

MAF: never a huge fan of his. honestly, if you can trade Stuart and a B-level prospect to Pitts (or a 3rd rnd pick), you can get him.
Over their respective careers, Elliott has stopped a higher percentage of pucks than MAF.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:32 AM
  #31
DRW204
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 654
vCash: 500
I feel like there's too much babying off Helle. If there's a better goalie out there, who will sign here for reasonable cost, why are ppl so worried that it doesn't fit in the 1-2 year stop gap time frame? Helle hasnt accomplished squat, frankly if there's a goalie that is clearly better than him, get him and start him and let Helle backup.

DRW204 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:39 AM
  #32
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarbrow21 View Post
The problem with acquiring a Proven goalie like some suggest, and then if Helle becomes what we think he'll be we trade the goalie we acquired...look how that's working out for Dallas. Now their stuck with essentially 2 back ups for 10M+ and have been for years.

That was the whole point of the initial post. To show the comparison between the "Top" level guys available vs the solid back ups.

The real targets should be Kinkaid, Nillson, or Condon because the numbers they provide will A) best translate to the Jets, and B) will come in under 2M per on whatever term. These guys posted great numbers and are solid Veteran backups on lousy teams so their numbers could very well stay the same or improve with the Jets.

Darling would be great, but he's A) coming from a very good defensive team so his numbers might drop heavily on the Jets and B) he'll probably get over 3.5-4M per on term which also isn't what the Jets need.
Not sure if I agree with your reasoning here sb. The problem with Dallas wasn't that they went out and got two guys and they were both good, it's that they both suck and are paid too much. If you're saying that Helle turns out to be what we hope (good), then it's not an issue.

I don't disagree with going and getting a top backup, I actually think that's the best route as well. We need to find our own Talbot or Anderson. I just think Raanta and Grubauer are at the top of that list, ahead of Kinkaid, Nillson, and Condon.

I think this is where a real goaltending expert who scouts all these guys would have to make a call. I don't think any of their numbers have a high enough sample size to be really sure. Someone who is more of a goalie expert technically should we analyzing all of these guys and trying to determine who has the best foundation to take the next step IMO.

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 09:48 AM
  #33
CaptainChef
Registered User
 
CaptainChef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bedroom Jetsville
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Not sure if I agree with your reasoning here sb. The problem with Dallas wasn't that they went out and got two guys and they were both good, it's that they both suck and are paid too much. If you're saying that Helle turns out to be what we hope (good), then it's not an issue.

I don't disagree with going and getting a top backup, I actually think that's the best route as well. We need to find our own Talbot or Anderson. I just think Raanta and Grubauer are at the top of that list, ahead of Kinkaid, Nillson, and Condon.

I think this is where a real goaltending expert who scouts all these guys would have to make a call. I don't think any of their numbers have a high enough sample size to be really sure. Someone who is more of a goalie expert technically should we analyzing all of these guys and trying to determine who has the best foundation to take the next step IMO.
Yep completely agree with your approach, but do you really think we have someone like that in this org. If so, what the heck was he doing all these years when Pavs was our #1

CaptainChef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 10:39 AM
  #34
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChef View Post
Yep completely agree with your approach, but do you really think we have someone like that in this org. If so, what the heck was he doing all these years when Pavs was our #1
That's the rub I guess.

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 01:04 PM
  #35
civic204
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
That's the rub I guess.

With Comrie needing waivers after next season, It's hard to predict what the Jets will do. It's either 1 of Helly and Comrie, or both, going forward.

It's always nice to draft your own goalies, but the draft and develop model doesn't really apply. I hope the Jets figure that out.

civic204 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 01:15 PM
  #36
Gm0ney
Unicorns salient
 
Gm0ney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by civic204 View Post
With Comrie needing waivers after next season, It's hard to predict what the Jets will do. It's either 1 of Helly and Comrie, or both, going forward.

It's always nice to draft your own goalies, but the draft and develop model doesn't really apply. I hope the Jets figure that out.
Comrie won't need waivers until the 2019-2020 season. Unless he dresses for 79 more games before then.

Gm0ney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 01:47 PM
  #37
JetBlue420
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eagle Creek Drive
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by civic204 View Post
With Comrie needing waivers after next season, It's hard to predict what the Jets will do. It's either 1 of Helly and Comrie, or both, going forward.

It's always nice to draft your own goalies, but the draft and develop model doesn't really apply. I hope the Jets figure that out.
In a way it does but yeah for the most part it doesn't, The biggest difference to what the Jets did and what a team like lets just use Pittsburgh with Murray as an example... The biggest difference between what those 2 teams did with their younger goalie, Pittsburgh had a solid veteran option, the Jets did not.

That's the difference. I think drafting and developing goalies works, but only if you have a veteran presence for that younger goalie to lean in for a couple years. Jets didn't have that. Pavelec sucked and probably sulked and Hutch was just awful.

What really would have helped Helle this year is that if the coaches had a lick of confidence in Hutch when the games actually mattered, they didn't so Helle as a rookie pretty much got sent to the wolves. He did ok, not great, not awful, he's a rookie... he had no veteran presence to lean in when he had his struggles tho. Other younger goalies in the league did and do have that veteran presence to lean on. To take the load off, For the Jets, Helle basically shouldered the load, the rookie goalie shouldered the load cuz the coach had absolutely zero confidence in the "vet".

JetBlue420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 02:28 PM
  #38
Gm0ney
Unicorns salient
 
Gm0ney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,926
vCash: 500
Having a competent goalie to shoulder some of the load would've gone a long way this year. As Maurice said, I don't care how old he is...

Gm0ney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 02:52 PM
  #39
McDLT
Bigger than the sun
 
McDLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 421
vCash: 50
I'm sure that chevy will go out and find the best goalie who is willing to play in Winnipeg for 1M/year

McDLT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:06 PM
  #40
Blue Shakehead
because lol Jets
 
Blue Shakehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,328
vCash: 50
I don't understand the logic in not going after the best goalies available. What other teams could use bonafide NHL goaltending more than us?

I suspect everyone wants the contract and term of the new goalie to mirror our extremely optimistic timetable of two years - when Hellebuyck turns into Carey Price? That's the type of thinking that got us into this mess.

If we sign Bishop for 4 years and Hellebuyck turns into Price two years, I'd say that would be the least of our worries.

Blue Shakehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:13 PM
  #41
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Shakehead View Post
I don't understand the logic in not going after the best goalies available. What other teams could use bonafide NHL goaltending more than us?

I suspect everyone wants the contract and term of the new goalie to mirror our extremely optimistic timetable of two years - when Hellebuyck turns into Carey Price? That's the type of thinking that got us into this mess.

If we sign Bishop for 4 years and Hellebuyck turns into Price two years, I'd say that would be the least of our worries.
My thoughts as well. We should be so lucky that our problem at that point is having two elite NHL goalies and a guy in the AHL who is NHL ready.

Huffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:21 PM
  #42
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,188
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Little View Post
I'd be looking for a small commitment. Mason, Bernier, Elliot, and even Halak are options I'd be okay with. Two years preferably, three years maximum.

Goalie X is a UFA in 2018.
I think if you won't go well beyond 2 years your options are limited to Halak and Howard or a backup level goalie. Or Elliott and I don't think I want him. Which is why he might be available for 2 years.

I would be happy with a real starter for 4 years. We can worry about Helle needing to be the starter when/if the time comes. Either Mason or Bernier.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 04:06 PM
  #43
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,188
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
This is where I'm at. I'd like to see a clear upgrade on Helly and drop him to #2. If over the next year or so Helly then pushes that player aside and Comrie is ready to backup you move a goalie for other assets. IMO under no circumstances can we wait on a goalie to develop within the organization.
Raanta, Grubauer and Darling are all very tempting. Only Raanta has played more games than Hellebuyck and then only 10 more. They are 2-4 years older than Helle. All are gambles. One could turn out to be the next Bishop or Schneider but which one?

If I could have my wish we would sign both Bernier/Mason and one of those 3 but that is fantasy territory.

I will be satisfied with any one of Howard, Halak, Mason, Bernier, Darling, Grubauer or Raanta.

I'm afraid we get Chad Johnson for 1 or 2 years at < 1.5 mil.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 04:09 PM
  #44
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,188
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffh View Post
Just want to go on record again and say howard is an option. And if he starts over helle in world championships does that not mean he would be a better option to start here also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffh View Post
.927 sv%. more then respectable and only 2 years left on contract. if helle starts over him then obviously forget it.
Either way it is just one coach's opinion and 1 short tournament. It is a factoid that can be added to an argument but it proves nothing.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 04:12 PM
  #45
DRW204
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 654
vCash: 500
Howard can be a bit of a pouty guy from what I have heard if things don't go his way. If he is beat outright by Helle i think he would be receptive, but if the organization choose Helle to carry the load, I don't think he would be to pleased

hes been pretty inconsistent though out his career

DRW204 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 04:18 PM
  #46
Bryzgalovs Cat
Easy 2 points
 
Bryzgalovs Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,677
vCash: 505
I think Darling is the best target. Young, UFA, good performance so far, would make a good 1A/1B duo.

Bryzgalovs Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 04:19 PM
  #47
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,188
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by HannuJ View Post
you're not wrong. worried about his start and finish to the season. those were Pav-esque goals he let in during the playoffs

MAF: never a huge fan of his. honestly, if you can trade Stuart and a B-level prospect to Pitts (or a 3rd rnd pick), you can get him.
I don't think so. Pens are forced to buy him out for the XD. He will then go the UFA route and look for both more term and more money than Jets will give - more than he is worth too. Somebody will pay it. I'd rather it not be us considering the alternatives that appear to be available.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 04:26 PM
  #48
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,188
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChef View Post
Yep completely agree with your approach, but do you really think we have someone like that in this org. If so, what the heck was he doing all these years when Pavs was our #1
He was busy coaching Pav (and all our other goalies) to get on their knees as early as possible. Oh BTW, his name is Flaherty or something like that.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 04:31 PM
  #49
ffh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,077
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRW204 View Post
Howard can be a bit of a pouty guy from what I have heard if things don't go his way. If he is beat outright by Helle i think he would be receptive, but if the organization choose Helle to carry the load, I don't think he would be to pleased

hes been pretty inconsistent though out his career
I cant argue with you about him possible being pouty but if jets decide to get him or maf it would not be to have a competition for the starters role it would be to be the starter and helle to be backup. any top level fa agent signing or goalie waiving his nmc wont do it unless they have the starters job. chevy could sign a lower tier back up goalie to have a competition but I think that would be a mistake. they need a starter with helle backing up.

ffh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 04:32 PM
  #50
Mortimer Snerd
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,188
vCash: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
In a way it does but yeah for the most part it doesn't, The biggest difference to what the Jets did and what a team like lets just use Pittsburgh with Murray as an example... The biggest difference between what those 2 teams did with their younger goalie, Pittsburgh had a solid veteran option, the Jets did not.

That's the difference. I think drafting and developing goalies works, but only if you have a veteran presence for that younger goalie to lean in for a couple years. Jets didn't have that. Pavelec sucked and probably sulked and Hutch was just awful.

What really would have helped Helle this year is that if the coaches had a lick of confidence in Hutch when the games actually mattered, they didn't so Helle as a rookie pretty much got sent to the wolves. He did ok, not great, not awful, he's a rookie... he had no veteran presence to lean in when he had his struggles tho. Other younger goalies in the league did and do have that veteran presence to lean on. To take the load off, For the Jets, Helle basically shouldered the load, the rookie goalie shouldered the load cuz the coach had absolutely zero confidence in the "vet".
There is no proof that made any difference at all - and there couldn't be. You can't prove what didn't happen.

The real difference is that Murray passed the entrance exam and Helle didn't. He is going to have to retake the exam after some more practice.

Mortimer Snerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:44 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.