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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Does winning another Cup get Kessel into the HHOF?

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Old
04-19-2017, 02:46 PM
  #51
Regal
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If he stays productive for a long time, puts up high career totals and continues to put up big playoff numbers while the Pens win at least one more and go on some long runs, he might have a shot based on longevity, playoffs and being a big part of a dominant team. The Hall isn't always about individual awards. Guys like Shanahan, Anderson, and Nieuwendyk are in a similar boat.

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04-19-2017, 02:54 PM
  #52
uTurris
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Believe it or not, he's nearly there, but will not be a first ballot unless he somehow gets an Olympic gold.

I think he could eventually get in, just won't be a first ballot.

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04-19-2017, 02:54 PM
  #53
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Since he entered the league, he's 21st in scoring and 14th in goals. That's not good enough. Even skipping his first two low output seasons, he's only 12th in scoring and 7th in goals.

He might get on a Top 10 Forwards of the 2010s list but I don't know if that's enough. A Conn Smythe would help, he has a good playoff reputation already.

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04-19-2017, 02:56 PM
  #54
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Possibly, is there another Kessel I don't know about ? Phil's HOF resume is severely lacking.

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04-19-2017, 02:56 PM
  #55
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Second cup alone won't be enough.

Second cup and a Rocket, or three cups, and I think maybe the conversation changes. Probably needs to stay roughly this productive for another five seasons or so too.

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04-19-2017, 02:58 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by LondonKendrick View Post
Sundin is in the HoF so basically anyone can make it, Kessel puts up consistent numbers, remember defending him as a Leaf using those manipulative arguements like 'he's been a top five point producer over 5 seasons' so he'll get his cute numbers to make a case.

If he was never a Leaf 2 cups would get him in, given he was the scapegoat to an extent for Burke making a bad trade I'd say he needs 3 cups now.
Really, so anyone can come along and be the highest scoring Swede in NHL history?

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04-19-2017, 02:58 PM
  #57
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I don't think so but the HHOF is probably the easiest HOF to get into so who tf knows. Surely he wouldn't get in on the strength of 2 Cups.

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04-19-2017, 02:59 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by LondonKendrick View Post
Sundin is in the HoF so basically anyone can make it, Kessel puts up consistent numbers, remember defending him as a Leaf using those manipulative arguements like 'he's been a top five point producer over 5 seasons' so he'll get his cute numbers to make a case.

If he was never a Leaf 2 cups would get him in, given he was the scapegoat to an extent for Burke making a bad trade I'd say he needs 3 cups now.
lol wtf is this?

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04-19-2017, 03:02 PM
  #59
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lol wtf is this?
He also ranks 50th all-time in Points Per Game.

But yeah, anyone can do that.

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04-19-2017, 03:07 PM
  #61
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Associating Sundin with just anyone getting in was a bit much, but Sundin is an example of how consistency and longevity as a high end player can get you in without individual awards.

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04-19-2017, 03:07 PM
  #62
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I imagine his NHLPA membership card will get him in the HOF for free.
This

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04-19-2017, 03:10 PM
  #63
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I still don't get it how Cups make your chances to be selected to HHOF.

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04-19-2017, 03:10 PM
  #64
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I still don't get it how Cups make your chances to be selected to HHOF.
The bigger the cup size, the easier to get in, that has always been a thing.

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04-19-2017, 03:13 PM
  #65
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Maybe the Hotdog Hall of Fame.

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04-19-2017, 03:15 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonKendrick View Post
Sundin is in the HoF so basically anyone can make it, Kessel puts up consistent numbers, remember defending him as a Leaf using those manipulative arguements like 'he's been a top five point producer over 5 seasons' so he'll get his cute numbers to make a case.

If he was never a Leaf 2 cups would get him in, given he was the scapegoat to an extent for Burke making a bad trade I'd say he needs 3 cups now.
Sundin is far from the weakest HHOF inductee. The hate is strong with this one.

Him being a scapegoat for the Leafs is also a very stupid reason for him needing more to get in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaymanX View Post
Well, I'm not saying he's a first ballot candidate, but look at the other upcoming HHOF candidates:

Mark Recchi

Selected to seven NHL All-Star Games: 1991, 1993, 1994, 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000
Named the MVP of the 1997 NHL All-Star Game
Named to the 1992 NHL Second All-Star Team
World championship`s gold medalist 1997

When all is said and done, Kessel will likely have 1-2 other Cups under his belt and 3-4 more All Star game appearances.

He's a dominant offensive force and one of the greatest US born players in the post-cap era.
Quote:
Recchi's Regular Season Scoring Finishes (3 times top 5!):

Top-20 in goals: 9th, 11th, 13th, 14th, 19th, 20th
Top-20 in assists: 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 15th, 17th, 18th
Top-20 in points: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 10th, 12th, 12th, 14th, 19th

A three time Stanley Cup winner: 1991 Pittsburgh, 2006 Carolina, 2011 Boston.

Recchi was still a more than serviceable offensive producer at the age of 42 when he was 6th on the Bruins in scoring.

Top-10 in playoff goals 4 Times (4th, 8th, 10th, 10th)
Top-16 in playoff assists 5 Times (2nd, 3rd, 14th, 15th, 16th)
Top-16 in playoff points 4 Times (2nd, 5th, 12th, 16th)

Alfredsson

Top 20 finishes
Goals: 9, 9, 9, 12
Assists: 8, 11, 13, 13, 13, 17
Points 4, 7, 9, 15, 17, 19

Award voting finishes
Hart: 5, 16, 17
All Star: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9
Selke (all forwards): 3, 10, 11, 15
Selke (wingers only): 2, 3, 4, 4
Kessel has a lot of catching up to do in his 30's.

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04-19-2017, 03:16 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by HELWild View Post
I still don't get it how Cups make your chances to be selected to HHOF.
They help borderline players get in, but they are more of a sweetener than an important piece of criteria.

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04-19-2017, 03:16 PM
  #68
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Links? or is this after 1 series/game? Because there was 0 case for him at the end of either playoff runs. Not sure how you'd have any argument for Hossa against Kane/Toews 2010 or Crawford/Kane in 2013 but ok.
Guy have been to 5 cup finals winning 3. He is in no way shape or form a passenger on any of those teams.

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Old
04-19-2017, 03:23 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
Guy have been to 5 cup finals winning 3. He is in no way shape or form a passenger on any of those teams.
Hossa signed with the teams that would give him the best chance to win a cup.

He was traded from Atlanta to Pittsburgh, went to the Finals with a team led by Crosby and Malkin. Jumped ship to the team that beat them in the Finals, and lost to the original team he should have just stayed with. After that he jumped over to the Blackhawks who had made it to the WCF the year before and were on the upswing, and has remained there since.

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04-19-2017, 03:50 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by LondonKendrick View Post
Sundin is in the HoF so basically anyone can make it, Kessel puts up consistent numbers, remember defending him as a Leaf using those manipulative arguements like 'he's been a top five point producer over 5 seasons' so he'll get his cute numbers to make a case.

If he was never a Leaf 2 cups would get him in, given he was the scapegoat to an extent for Burke making a bad trade I'd say he needs 3 cups now.
Well Sundin is also top 30 all time in points and goals, what he lacked in peek accomplishment he made up for with really consistent play year after year. If you look at the list of company around Sundin's numbers they're all HHOF members.

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04-19-2017, 04:34 PM
  #71
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Participated in the All Star game 3x (2011, 2012, 2015)
Stanley Cup Champion (2016)
Olympic All Star Team (2014)
Bill Masterston Winner (2006)
I find it amusing that you include participating in the all star game as an accolade.

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04-19-2017, 05:07 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by HELWild View Post
I still don't get it how Cups make your chances to be selected to HHOF.
I buy them as a sort of a tie-breaker...if you're on the edge of being a Hall of Famer it's hard to argue against a ring helping your case...but I roll my eyes at it being a primary component of a player's Hall of Fame case.

Kessel, for now at least, looks like a prime candidate for the Hall of Very Good. If he plays another 80 playoff games at a near PPG clip that could change, but that's asking a lot. Kessel having 2 rings instead of the 1 he already has doesn't really move the needle for me...though obviously I hope like hell he retires with a drawer full of them

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Old
04-19-2017, 05:37 PM
  #73
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Stats get players into the HHOF more than cups.
Kessel imo, can play until he's 40 at a high level. There is zero mileage on his body. He hasn't been a game in 8 years. In the end, yes, his stats will get him in. But a second cup this Spring will not.

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04-19-2017, 05:43 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by HELWild View Post
I still don't get it how Cups make your chances to be selected to HHOF.
The Hall committee loves winners, it's just how it is. You have to be a large contributer to get credit though. I think there's also a sense of players sacrificing individual numbers and awards for team success that makes it easier to overlook lowered stats. Winning also leads to more playoff games and usually better playoff numbers, plus moments and memories that stick in people's minds. The best of the best like Ovechkin will always get in no matter what their teams do, but the 2nd and 3rd tier guys usually need something extra. Glenn Anderson doesn't get in without his playoff heroics. Neither does Joe Nieuwendyk who also has the distinction of cups with three different teams. Ditto Clark Gillies. It's not cups alone though, it's how you're viewed through the lens of a winning team.

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Old
04-19-2017, 06:00 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Regal View Post
The Hall committee loves winners, it's just how it is. You have to be a large contributer to get credit though. I think there's also a sense of players sacrificing individual numbers and awards for team success that makes it easier to overlook lowered stats. Winning also leads to more playoff games and usually better playoff numbers, plus moments and memories that stick in people's minds. The best of the best like Ovechkin will always get in no matter what their teams do, but the 2nd and 3rd tier guys usually need something extra. Glenn Anderson doesn't get in without his playoff heroics. Neither does Joe Nieuwendyk who also has the distinction of cups with three different teams. Ditto Clark Gillies. It's not cups alone though, it's how you're viewed through the lens of a winning team.
There's actually quite a few guys without cups in the HHOF, even ones without the amazing stats.

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