HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Does winning another Cup get Kessel into the HHOF?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-19-2017, 06:25 PM
  #76
Regal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafFever View Post
There's actually quite a few guys without cups in the HHOF, even ones without the amazing stats.
There are, but they almost always fall into two categories: those that put up huge counting stats over a long career (Sundin, Oates, Ciccarelli, Housley, etc), or were great players that were incredibly memorable and entertaining but had their careers cut short (Lindros, Bure, Neely, etc). Kessel isn't going to fall into the second category and he likely is too far behind at this point in his carer to fall into the 1st. Of course, he already has a cup, but I think the only way he can get in is if he becomes a memorable part of a very successful Pens team, and still has solid longevity

Regal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-19-2017, 06:31 PM
  #77
Menzinger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Calgary/Toronto
Country: England
Posts: 13,037
vCash: 500
He's got to be pretty close already, I mean he has something like the 5th most playoff point totals in the salary cap era.

Menzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-19-2017, 06:40 PM
  #78
VeddarRants
HEART AND SOUL
 
VeddarRants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 15,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal View Post
There are, but they almost always fall into two categories: those that put up huge counting stats over a long career (Sundin, Oates, Ciccarelli, Housley, etc), or were great players that were incredibly memorable and entertaining but had their careers cut short (Lindros, Bure, Neely, etc). Kessel isn't going to fall into the second category and he likely is too far behind at this point in his carer to fall into the 1st. Of course, he already has a cup, but I think the only way he can get in is if he becomes a memorable part of a very successful Pens team, and still has solid longevity
Absolutely. Well put.

If Kessel puts up 25 goals/70 points for the next 5 seasons ( will be 35 at the end of that run ) he'll have over 400 goals and around 1000 points, which I think will be the the statistical bare minimum benchmarks for a player in the post 90's era to garner consideration. So it's possible.

VeddarRants is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-19-2017, 07:12 PM
  #79
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 16,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky04 View Post
Kessel is actually a significantly better playoff performer than a guy like Hossa who most people want in. So maybe 2 more cups considering Hossa never won anything individually and rode coat tails to multiple cups.
I don't quite see the comparison. Hossa was both better at his peak and as a defensive presence.

The real point about Kessel is he just isn't there with the numbers yet so this conversation seems a little weird.

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-19-2017, 07:17 PM
  #80
Bryzard of Oz
Registered User
 
Bryzard of Oz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 924
vCash: 500
If Kessel wins a second ring this year, who do you have?

Jeff Carter (who also owns WJ and Olympic Gold)

Think Carter has a way to go before he's considered. Not sure the fact he played in TO is going to be very important for the HOF committee

Bryzard of Oz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 10:00 AM
  #81
Voight
MAGA
 
Voight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA > TOR
Country: United Nations
Posts: 14,613
vCash: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricanedave View Post
Well Sundin is also top 30 all time in points and goals, what he lacked in peek accomplishment he made up for with really consistent play year after year. If you look at the list of company around Sundin's numbers they're all HHOF members.
Lest we forget the lack of good linemates he had.

Voight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 10:03 AM
  #82
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 16,297
vCash: 500
I could see him getting in on one of those votes where you can tell he was begrudgingly let in. Kind of like Recchi (which was a no brainer in that case but still).

EDIT: When Recchi does get in lol

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 10:04 AM
  #83
93LEAFS
Registered User
 
93LEAFS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,315
vCash: 500
No, needs better counting stats. He needs at least 400 goals and probably 1000 points. Its doable, but far from a guaranteed.

93LEAFS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 10:10 AM
  #84
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 32,893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal View Post
There are, but they almost always fall into two categories: those that put up huge counting stats over a long career (Sundin, Oates, Ciccarelli, Housley, etc), or were great players that were incredibly memorable and entertaining but had their careers cut short (Lindros, Bure, Neely, etc). Kessel isn't going to fall into the second category and he likely is too far behind at this point in his carer to fall into the 1st. Of course, he already has a cup, but I think the only way he can get in is if he becomes a memorable part of a very successful Pens team, and still has solid longevity
I'm trying to come up with an HHOF'er who made it on the same basis as Kessel would.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 10:12 AM
  #85
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 32,893
vCash: 500
On Sundin : I think that what skews perceptions a bit regarding Sundin is that he made it on his first year of eligibility and might have been the weakest player to do so, while better players had to wait (but not necessarily while HE was getting in, if that makes sense)

But Sundin is absolutely an HHOF'er.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 10:14 AM
  #86
Extra Texture
A new career
 
Extra Texture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in a new town
Country: Sark
Posts: 5,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraSphere View Post
Considering he didn't even make the USA world cup roster, HoF sounds like a stretch. Very good player though
This is the same silly line of reasoning that says "Well that hit wasnt so bad because the DPoS didnt even suspend the player"

The decision to leave him off the roster was panned, and the American team went down in flames. Yet somehow that team is a barometer for Kessel's overall career?

Extra Texture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 10:40 AM
  #87
jumptheshark
McDavid Headquarters
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lord of HFBOARDS
Country: United Nations
Posts: 73,740
vCash: 3164
**** no. Hall of fame starts with personal points and not team accomplishments

__________________
**Avatar approved by the powers that be***

I am the KING of Alternative Facts as any hockey fan is
jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 11:02 AM
  #88
Syrinx
HBK
 
Syrinx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 8,378
vCash: 203
When was he ever in the top-5 players in the game? My cutoff is that you need to be among the leagues best players for an extended period of time (or be Jonathan Toews) to make the hall of fame. He's never been there.

Syrinx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 11:10 AM
  #89
chethejet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,658
vCash: 500
He is behind Sid and Geno in the Pens importance. Not a HOF player in that light. He is a complementary talent and that is not a HOF player.

chethejet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 11:42 AM
  #90
Human Bean
Hold my sandwich
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albuquerque
Country: United States
Posts: 1,946
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by chethejet View Post
He is behind Sid and Geno in the Pens importance. Not a HOF player in that light. He is a complementary talent and that is not a HOF player.
Like Dick Duff and Bob Nystrom?

Human Bean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:01 PM
  #91
Regal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I'm trying to come up with an HHOF'er who made it on the same basis as Kessel would.
If the Pens had a Chicago-like run here the next 5 years with Kessel continuing his production in the playoffs, what really separates him from someone like Anderson?

Regal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:02 PM
  #92
ManofSteel55
Registered User
 
ManofSteel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 14,873
vCash: 500
There are less accomplished players than Phil Kessel in the HHOF.

ManofSteel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:03 PM
  #93
ManofSteel55
Registered User
 
ManofSteel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 14,873
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syrinx View Post
When was he ever in the top-5 players in the game? My cutoff is that you need to be among the leagues best players for an extended period of time (or be Jonathan Toews) to make the hall of fame. He's never been there.
That is not even close to what makes a Hall of Fame player. Your own criteria doesnt' affect the reality of the situation.

ManofSteel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:05 PM
  #94
jumptheshark
McDavid Headquarters
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lord of HFBOARDS
Country: United Nations
Posts: 73,740
vCash: 3164
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Absolutely. Well put.

If Kessel puts up 25 goals/70 points for the next 5 seasons ( will be 35 at the end of that run ) he'll have over 400 goals and around 1000 points, which I think will be the the statistical bare minimum benchmarks for a player in the post 90's era to garner consideration. So it's possible.

this I agree with--

jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:07 PM
  #95
ManofSteel55
Registered User
 
ManofSteel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 14,873
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryzard of Oz View Post
If Kessel wins a second ring this year, who do you have?

Jeff Carter (who also owns WJ and Olympic Gold)

Think Carter has a way to go before he's considered. Not sure the fact he played in TO is going to be very important for the HOF committee
Carter could very well be considered by the time his career is over. Remember, they put in 3 players every year. If you take the top 3 players from every year in the past 10, and don't repeat any of them, Jeff Carter could well be among those guys. I'm not making that convoluted list to know for sure, but the HHOF isn't only reserved for generational talents or top tier superstars. There are plenty of players of Kessel and Carter's caliber in already.

ManofSteel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:07 PM
  #96
Esq
JSS
 
Esq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: RV, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 5,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky04 View Post
Kessel is actually a significantly better playoff performer than a guy like Hossa who most people want in. So maybe 2 more cups considering Hossa never won anything individually and rode coat tails to multiple cups.
Still bitter about 2015? Only way I can make sense of this...

Esq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:22 PM
  #97
TMLife
Auston Matthews
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,495
vCash: 500
Oh man I really hope so, I would love to see that

TMLife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:25 PM
  #98
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,811
vCash: 500
Hot Dog Eaters HOF for sure. The hockey one, doubtful but not impossible.

Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:38 PM
  #99
Dart Guy
Rookie User
 
Dart Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Beaver City
Country: Canada
Posts: 67
vCash: 500
A couple three four more seasons at current production I can see him getting in eventually. Would be interesting to see if how durable he is would be a factor they take into consideration.

Dart Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 03:38 PM
  #100
MrJonas
Ekblades of Steel
 
MrJonas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal View Post
Associating Sundin with just anyone getting in was a bit much, but Sundin is an example of how consistency and longevity as a high end player can get you in without individual awards.
Sundin's level of consistency is very rare though, it's not something you can accomplish just by playing out your contracts and deciding to show up for every game. He was a top 20 forward for pretty much his entire career, while Kessel has been one for around 5 years. He would need another 10 years of the same level of play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LaymanX View Post
Well, I'm not saying he's a first ballot candidate, but look at the other upcoming HHOF candidates:

Mark Recchi

Selected to seven NHL All-Star Games: 1991, 1993, 1994, 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000
Named the MVP of the 1997 NHL All-Star Game
Named to the 1992 NHL Second All-Star Team
World championship`s gold medalist 1997
I'm actually all for Recchi in the HHoF, because of his longevity as a high quality player, but being the All-Star Game MVP is even easier than being the best in a pre-season game.

MrJonas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.