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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Does winning another Cup get Kessel into the HHOF?

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Old
04-20-2017, 03:44 PM
  #101
Riptide
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Originally Posted by LaymanX View Post
Participated in the All Star game 3x (2011, 2012, 2015)
Stanley Cup Champion (2016)
Olympic All Star Team (2014)
Bill Masterston Winner (2006)
I think he'd need to continue putting up 30+ goal seasons, win at least one more cup and take home some more hardware (performance based stuff) to even stand a chance.

The guy is a very good player... but nothing I've seen to date says he'll be in the HHOF.

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Old
04-20-2017, 03:51 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Absolutely. Well put.

If Kessel puts up 25 goals/70 points for the next 5 seasons ( will be 35 at the end of that run ) he'll have over 400 goals and around 1000 points, which I think will be the the statistical bare minimum benchmarks for a player in the post 90's era to garner consideration. So it's possible.
Even if he did that (which isn't unrealistic) and won a 2nd cup, I don't think that's enough unless he picks up some other hardware, or is a dominate force in the playoffs over that span.

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Old
04-20-2017, 07:01 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by chethejet View Post
He is behind Sid and Geno in the Pens importance. Not a HOF player in that light. He is a complementary talent and that is not a HOF player.
I don't think you can hold the Pens talent against him. Kessel has produced at a high level at every level regardless of the talent around him.

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04-20-2017, 07:16 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I don't think you can hold the Pens talent against him. Kessel has produced at a high level at every level regardless of the talent around him.
He's been one of the most prolific playoff scorers in the salary cap era..... that's impressive regardless of who his teammates are

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Old
04-20-2017, 07:18 PM
  #105
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It's ironic that the guy who was the poster child for being one-dimensional on HF is a playoff beast who led the cup champs in scoring and is doing it again,
You win with gritty two way players, right guys?

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Old
04-20-2017, 07:48 PM
  #106
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He wouldn't be the worst player in the Hall of Fame. Phil Kessel had a 3 year stretch where he was 2nd overall in scoring on a bad team where he was starting in the defensive zone all the time on one of the worst possession teams in the league with a 45 point center. 3 top 7 point finishes, lead a Cup winning team in scoring, won best forward at the 2014 Olympics, if his production is reasonably good for the rest of his career he could have a decent case. Having said that in this era where gaudy offensive numbers are rare I wouldn't bet on him getting the nod.

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Old
04-20-2017, 08:32 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Regal View Post
Associating Sundin with just anyone getting in was a bit much, but Sundin is an example of how consistency and longevity as a high end player can get you in without individual awards.
I guess you can say that with a straight face. Of course, you also have to completely ignore the fact that he captained a Swedish team to an Olympic gold that had scrubs on the team such as:

Lidstrom
Alfredsson
Naslund
Forsberg
Sedin
Sedin
Zetterberg
Lundqvist

I mean, just about anyone could have gotten onto that team and be considered captain no?

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04-20-2017, 09:13 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
I guess you can say that with a straight face. Of course, you also have to completely ignore the fact that he captained a Swedish team to an Olympic gold that had scrubs on the team such as:

Lidstrom
Alfredsson
Naslund
Forsberg
Sedin
Sedin
Zetterberg
Lundqvist

I mean, just about anyone could have gotten onto that team and be considered captain no?
I'm not sure how this is relevant to what I said but ok

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Old
04-20-2017, 09:28 PM
  #109
b in vancouver
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Originally Posted by Menzinger View Post
He's got to be pretty close already, I mean he has something like the 5th most playoff point totals in the salary cap era.
uhh... he's around 50th.
He's 5th most against players drafted the same year. Backstrom, Toews, Lucic and Giroux all have more points.

Kissel isn't anywhere near the HHOF.

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Old
04-20-2017, 09:33 PM
  #110
b in vancouver
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Originally Posted by LaymanX View Post
Participated in the All Star game 3x (2011, 2012, 2015)
Stanley Cup Champion (2016)
Olympic All Star Team (2014)
Bill Masterston Winner (2006)
Not one of those things would sway anyone towards a HOF vote.
The all-star game is NOT the All Star Team - which he's never made.
20 players win the Stanley Cup every year.
Olympic All Star Team is a small feather.
Masteron's an after-thought.

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Old
04-21-2017, 01:56 AM
  #111
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People are sleeping on Phil yet again. I don't think just wining a second cup gets him in but..
1. He's a easily had a HOF level individual playoff career. Higher PPG than Kane or Toews.
2. 29yo with 300 goals and 650 points
3. He's coming off a season where he put up 70 points without breaking a sweat. Kessel really isn't reliant on any specific tool (speed, hands, shot, whatever). I'm convinced he's going age extremely gracefully if he continues playing for top level teams.

I think the only element of luck he really needs is to get a 2-3 great playoff runs and it looks like #1 is currently in progress. He's going to get the 1000pts or whatever just by being Phil. Also, it's going to be a cool story when he gets in and the writers are ultimately the ones deciding.


Last edited by bjs354: 04-21-2017 at 02:08 AM.
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Old
04-21-2017, 02:22 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Narow View Post
What is this supposed to mean?

Sundin all time rankings.

Regular season
#50 ppg

#28 points

#22 goals

#53 games played (great longetivity)


Playoffs stats

91 games 38 goals 82 points

Best season
80 games played 47 goals 114 points

This season is ranked #110th best ever in points.

C'mon how is that not HOF worthy...or am i missing sarcasm or something?
Adding to that Sundin was a demigod in the national jersey.

(Not saying I believe he should be in the hall but there are far weaker inductions)

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Old
04-21-2017, 02:36 AM
  #113
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No! There are tons of players who aren't HOFers but way better than him.

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Old
04-21-2017, 05:21 AM
  #114
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No, pretty unlikely to happen in my opinion.

He's not really done much, I've never looked at Kessel as a HoF.

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Old
04-21-2017, 07:01 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by LondonKendrick View Post
Sundin is in the HoF so basically anyone can make it...


Phil Kessel won't become a HHOF by being a complementary - albeit very good -piece on a very good team. Like people have already posted, you either have to show longevity as an elite player, or be a memorable player. Kessel has been neither yet.

And having played in the All-Star game is not something to put on your resumé anymore. Being "the best on your team" isn't exactly HHOF material, especially if your team is bad. Back when the All-Star game actually brought the best players regardless of where they played and how many played on one team, it was something else. Today it's a joke of a PR stunt.


Last edited by Chimp: 04-21-2017 at 07:13 AM.
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Old
04-21-2017, 09:08 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
No. He could end up being worthy, but he needs to add more than just a Cup as the 3rd or 4th best forward on his team.
Lol you just disqualified Brett Hull from the hall haha.

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Old
04-21-2017, 11:03 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
I guess you can say that with a straight face. Of course, you also have to completely ignore the fact that he captained a Swedish team to an Olympic gold that had scrubs on the team such as:

Lidstrom
Alfredsson
Naslund
Forsberg
Sedin
Sedin
Zetterberg
Lundqvist

I mean, just about anyone could have gotten onto that team and be considered captain no?
The fact that he was chosen as captain over the first 7 is a good sign of his leadership. Lidas, Alfie, Naslund, Zetter and Henrik have all been long time captains/assistant captains.

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04-21-2017, 12:04 PM
  #118
b in vancouver
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Originally Posted by bjs354 View Post
People are sleeping on Phil yet again. I don't think just wining a second cup gets him in but..
1. He's a easily had a HOF level individual playoff career. Higher PPG than Kane or Toews.
2. 29yo with 300 goals and 650 points
3. He's coming off a season where he put up 70 points without breaking a sweat. Kessel really isn't reliant on any specific tool (speed, hands, shot, whatever). I'm convinced he's going age extremely gracefully if he continues playing for top level teams.

I think the only element of luck he really needs is to get a 2-3 great playoff runs and it looks like #1 is currently in progress. He's going to get the 1000pts or whatever just by being Phil. Also, it's going to be a cool story when he gets in and the writers are ultimately the ones deciding.
Don't just make stuff up.
Toews has 622 pts. in 717 gms (.87)
Kane has 752 pts. in 740 gms (1)
vs. Kessel's 649 pts. in 832 gms (.78)
Backstrom is the same age and has 728 pts. in 734 gms.

Edit: oh, you meant ppg. in the playoffs? Well that's just as ridiculous considering the success Toews and Kane have had.

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Old
04-21-2017, 12:21 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by b in vancouver View Post
Don't just make stuff up.
Toews has 622 pts. in 717 gms (.87)
Kane has 752 pts. in 740 gms (1)
vs. Kessel's 649 pts. in 832 gms (.78)
Backstrom is the same age and has 728 pts. in 734 gms.

Edit: oh, you meant ppg. in the playoffs? Well that's just as ridiculous considering the success Toews and Kane have had.
Ya, I was talking about playoffs. I'm arguing that if he gets another 50pts in 50 playoff games that puts him in pretty elite company so his HOF status will be mostly based on that if he makes it. I think he basically just needs the bare min. regular season stats. Bare in mind Toews and Kane are both considered top 100 players of all time and I expect Kessel to surpass Toews regular season stats in the next few seasons. Anywhere close to 100 pts in a 100 playoff games is pretty strong these days.

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04-21-2017, 12:31 PM
  #120
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Unless kessel can get 900 points in 800 games he is no where close to recchi.

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04-21-2017, 12:35 PM
  #121
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Too early into his career to talk about this. The only type of players that deserve HHOF chatter this early in their careers are players that produce at a Crosby or Ovechkin level.

I think if Phil can reach around 500 goals and 1000+ points, he's got a decent case. That'll obviously take some time, though, so we'll see how old he can get before his production drops off. The problem for him is that other players with better career numbers will almost certainly exist, so how is he different from them? If he becomes part of a Penguins dynasty, that might work (but that's a VERY tall order). In that case, I'd say he's comparable to Glenn Anderson, in that they're about the 3rd-4th best scorer on a dynastic team.

Also, every time I look at his stat line, I am amazed that he's never been a 40 goal scorer. So close, yet so far.

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04-21-2017, 12:59 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by BagHead View Post
Too early into his career to talk about this. The only type of players that deserve HHOF chatter this early in their careers are players that produce at a Crosby or Ovechkin level.

I think if Phil can reach around 500 goals and 1000+ points, he's got a decent case. That'll obviously take some time, though, so we'll see how old he can get before his production drops off. The problem for him is that other players with better career numbers will almost certainly exist, so how is he different from them? If he becomes part of a Penguins dynasty, that might work (but that's a VERY tall order). In that case, I'd say he's comparable to Glenn Anderson, in that they're about the 3rd-4th best scorer on a dynastic team.

Also, every time I look at his stat line, I am amazed that he's never been a 40 goal scorer. So close, yet so far.
Remember, Phil was much better than Malkin (playing hurt) last year in the playoffs (including out shooting Malkin 98 to 72 so it wasn't just luck). Malkin also took alot of bad penalties.


Last edited by bjs354: 04-21-2017 at 01:27 PM.
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Old
04-21-2017, 01:04 PM
  #123
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No. No it doesn't

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04-21-2017, 01:11 PM
  #124
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I wonder how the thread would be if phil won the Smythe last year. Or if pitts does win another cup and he gets one. I think cups aside phil needs some individual hardware to make a case as well as keep playing at a high level for the next 7 years.

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Old
04-21-2017, 01:16 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by bjs354 View Post
Remember, Phil was much better than Malkin (playing hurt) last year in the playoffs.
I am not about to look at a 25 game sample and declare anything definitive about it, especially when the thing in question is the players' entire bodies of work for their careers.

Last years playoffs is a feather in Kessel's cap for sure, but it takes a lot of feathers to create a headdress.

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