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Trouba for Eichel

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Old
04-19-2017, 03:24 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Maukkis View Post
Is this not the perfect opportunity and a free pass for Murray to give Bylsma the boot?

From day one of the era without Bylsma, only the small minority will criticize him for caving in, as his hands were properly tied by a franchise player, and to be honest, most people won't probably criticize him at all - if he was firing a good coach, it would be a different story. If things change for the better, the firing will be seen as a good move. If not... is there not someone in the locker room who specifically wanted a new coach, and things are still not working out? Yep, that's right. Most of the heat will be directed at Eichel (barring a miraculous 1,5 PPG season or so). I don't see the downside, expect for setting a horrible precedent, but after everything Buffalo did to acquire Eichel, that should be a minor issue at most.
There is the risk of being perceived as letting the inmates run the asylum. Still, given that both Winnipeg and Buffalo are less than desirable places to play (in the minds of many players), what better punishment than to exile the malcontents to the other gulag. Two ***** passing in the night, so to speak.

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04-19-2017, 03:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
Eichel for Trouba? Buffalo wouldn't do Eichel for Doughty/Karlsson.
That's why I'm saying Trouba, Little 1st Round and 2 2nd round picks

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04-19-2017, 03:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by matthole View Post
That's why I'm saying Trouba, Little 1st Round and 2 2nd round picks
That's a massive underrating of Trouba's value IMO. Not a chance I would move Trouba along with 1 significant add, and you're adding 2 (Little and a 1st).

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04-19-2017, 03:42 PM
  #29
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Eichel would complain about Maurice's questionable decisions here anyway

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04-19-2017, 03:53 PM
  #30
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buffalo would turn that down. fast.

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04-19-2017, 04:07 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
Eichel for Trouba? Buffalo wouldn't do Eichel for Doughty/Karlsson.
Doughty is getting up there in age, so I'd understand that, but Karlsson?
If Eichel really wants out of Buffalo, I think they'd give serious consideration to Trouba+

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04-19-2017, 04:11 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
Doughty is getting up there in age, so I'd understand that, but Karlsson?
If Eichel really wants out of Buffalo, I think they'd give serious consideration to Trouba+
Karlsson is the same age as Doughty, both went in 2008 draft.

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04-19-2017, 04:24 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by jorbjorb View Post
buffalo would turn that down. fast.
Instead of hit-and-running, why not answer: why would they turn it down? #1D and #1C's are very valuable - depending on needs, it's arguable which is more important.

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04-19-2017, 05:24 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by matthole View Post
That's why I'm saying Trouba, Little 1st Round and 2 2nd round picks
Way over pay. Trouba is already close to value, just need to add something

If you want to over pay throw in roslovic and a 2nd(tho I feel that's even for the loss of a #1 centre)


Last edited by Peggy: 04-19-2017 at 06:03 PM.
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Old
04-19-2017, 05:35 PM
  #35
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The only reason trading for Doughty or Karlsson aren't slam dunk yes's for Buffalo is because of those players having 2 years left on their deals. If Karlsson had the same amount of term left as Eichel then it would be unquestionable that Karlsson would be worth more. I wouldn't move Laine for either of those 2 either atm.

No worries if the Sabres aren't interested in Trouba. Top pairing D and young #1's are tough to find, and probably slightly more valuable than #1C's at the moment (although close as those 2 are the most important things). If he would re-sign I'd probably rather keep him anyway.
I'm sorry but you just don't trade a player who's going to be a top 5, maybe even top 3 player in the league in 5 years for a 1b defensemen, especially when Trouba is not going to be winning a Norris anytime in his career. Would you trade Eichel for McDonaugh? Hell no and of you asked Tim Murray if he would trade Eichel for Trouba straight up, he'd probably die of laughter.

Trouba will be one of the better dmen in the league and will be integral to the Jets soon to come future playoff success, but please stop saying he's worth as much as Eichel because its really not close. #1C's who are near ppg players in their 20 yr old sophomore season with a constant nagging ankle injury with the worst coach in the NHL are worth more than Drew Doughty. Eichel isn't leaving Buffalo any time soon and if the Sabres hire someone of the likes of Dineen/any coach who will play an aggressive offensive system, Eichel will be in the 95-105 point range. If the Sabres hire an actual knowledgeable NHL coach, ask this question come next April and be laughed off this site.


Last edited by darcyRegier: 04-19-2017 at 05:40 PM.
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Old
04-19-2017, 05:40 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
Way over pay. Trouba is always close to value, just need to add something

If you want to over pay throw in roslovic and a 2nd(tho I feel that's even for the loss of a #1 centre)
I doubt Roslovic would be a No.1, I'm just saying we are asking for a player who could potentially be a 85-90 point season(average) player in 2 more seasons and there on, I know Trouba is looking the part of and probable is at the moment a No.1 D but a Franchise/ Superstar C is worth much more value than a No.1 D. If Buffalo would take Trouba and Roslovic I wouldn't hesitate one second to take that offer, than we could trade Little(while his value is up and clear up some space) for a half decent LD or Goalie, Draft the best D man by our position in the Draft and than we have the most Lethal Offense in the league and probable a Top 3 team in the league as well.

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04-19-2017, 06:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
I'm sorry but you just don't trade a player who's going to be a top 5, maybe even top 3 player in the league in 5 years for a 1b defensemen, especially when Trouba is not going to be winning a Norris anytime in his career. Would you trade Eichel for McDonaugh? Hell no and of you asked Tim Murray if he would trade Eichel for Trouba straight up, he'd probably die of laughter.
Your evaluation of Trouba as a 1B defenseman is telling, and is underselling his worth. Keep Eichel: we have a centre that just broke 80pts and is on an extremely favourable long term contract, and enough firepower at F to not need Eichel - Trouba is worth far more to the Jets than to the Sabres, obviously.

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04-19-2017, 06:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by matthole View Post
I doubt Roslovic would be a No.1, I'm just saying we are asking for a player who could potentially be a 85-90 point season(average) player in 2 more seasons and there on, I know Trouba is looking the part of and probable is at the moment a No.1 D but a Franchise/ Superstar C is worth much more value than a No.1 D. If Buffalo would take Trouba and Roslovic I wouldn't hesitate one second to take that offer, than we could trade Little(while his value is up and clear up some space) for a half decent LD or Goalie, Draft the best D man by our position in the Draft and than we have the most Lethal Offense in the league and probable a Top 3 team in the league as well.
Wait and see what kind of contract Little signs

His contract he has now you cn afford to have all 3 thanks to scheifele's contract

I don't think roslovic would be their number 1. They'd have to draft another centre which wouldn't be that bad for them with roslovic and who'm else

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04-19-2017, 06:06 PM
  #39
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There's something about Eichel's attitude and body language that has rubbed me the wrong way. That being said this would be a good trade for the Jets, not sure Sabres do it though.

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04-19-2017, 06:27 PM
  #40
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I don't know if the Sabres would get a better 1 for 1 offer

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04-19-2017, 06:31 PM
  #41
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Instead of Trouba for Eichel, how about Maurice for Bylsma?

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04-19-2017, 06:39 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Your evaluation of Trouba as a 1B defenseman is telling, and is underselling his worth. Keep Eichel: we have a centre that just broke 80pts and is on an extremely favourable long term contract, and enough firepower at F to not need Eichel - Trouba is worth far more to the Jets than to the Sabres, obviously.
Boston's GM is/was/still is? offering the Jets: Krug, a 1st round pick (don't know what year but its probably going to be around #15-25 overall if its 2017) and Jeremy Lauzon for Trouba. You're telling me a true 1a stud defensemen, a guy like Subban, Burns, Karlsson, etc. is going to return you a mid first round pick, a prospect who is under a ppg in his D+ year in the Q, and Torrey Krug? Obviously Boston's GM will slightly undervalue Trouba for his own sake of assest management, but I would imagine any deal with Boston involving a true #1a dman would be returning the likes of Pasternak/Marchand.

Moving on...a franchise center that will be the true cornerstone to their franchise is worth more than Krug, #15-25 overall in a weak draft, and Lauzon. Especially one who will be one of the NHL's "future 4" of McDavid, Eichel, Laine, Matthews. Schiefle will be/already is elite, but Eichel single-handily takes over games, and also roughly 4 years younger.

Also to those who question Eichel's character: what do you think of Patrick Kane and Tyler Seguin now? If my memory serves Kane beat the s*** out of a cab driver over $4 and the Boston Bruins had to hire a security guard to keep Seguin from getting blackout hammered the night before playoff games. Eichel is 20 and is the face of a struggling franchise with a lot of expectations...give the kid a few years to grow up please.


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Old
04-19-2017, 06:54 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
Boston's GM is/was/still is? offering the Jets: Krug, a 1st round pick (don't know what year but its probably going to be around #15-25 overall if its 2017) and Jeremy Lauzon for Trouba. You're telling me a true 1a stud defensemen, a guy like Subban, Burns, Karlsson, etc. is going to return you a mid first round pick, a prospect who is under a ppg in his D+ year in the Q, and Torrey Krug? Obviously Boston's GM will slightly undervalue Trouba for his own sake of assest management, but I would imagine any deal with Boston involving a true #1a dman would be returning the likes of Pasternak/Marchand.

Moving on...a franchise center that will be the true cornerstone to their franchise is worth more than Krug, #15-25 overall in a weak draft, and Lauzon. Especially one who will be one of the NHL's "future 4" of McDavid, Eichel, Laine, Matthews. Schiefle will be/already is elite, but Eichel single-handily takes over games, and also roughly 4 years younger.

Also to those who question Eichel's character: what do you think of Patrick Kane and Tyler Seguin now? If my memory serves Kane beat the s*** out of a cab driver over $4 and the Boston Bruins had to hire a security guard to keep Seguin from getting blackout hammered the night before playoff games. Eichel is 20 and is the face of a struggling franchise with a lot of expectations...give the kid a few years to grow up please.
OK..... what does it matter what Boston's GM offered when the Jets where dealing with a hold out. It obviously wasn't sufficient as in the end the Jets didn't accept now did they?

Trouba's value has only gone up substantially since then so once again I hardly see how that trade offer is relevant, I bet Murray has been offered similarly for Echiel we obviously don't here about what most discussions among GM'S entail. I would also echo some of the sentiment on here in that Trouba is worth more to us than Jack would be. Go ahead and keep him, doesn't at all bother me in the least.

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04-19-2017, 06:56 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
Boston's GM is/was/still is? offering the Jets: Krug, a 1st round pick (don't know what year but its probably going to be around #15-25 overall if its 2017) and Jeremy Lauzon for Trouba. You're telling me a true 1a stud defensemen, a guy like Subban, Burns, Karlsson, etc. is going to return you a mid first round pick, a prospect who is under a ppg in his D+ year in the Q, and Torrey Krug? Obviously Boston's GM will slightly undervalue Trouba for his own sake of assest management, but I would imagine any deal with Boston involving a true #1a dman would be returning the likes of Pasternak/Marchand.

Moving on...a franchise center that will be the true cornerstone to their franchise is worth more than Krug, #15-25 overall in a weak draft, and Lauzon. Especially one who will be one of the NHL's "future 4" of McDavid, Eichel, Laine, Matthews. Schiefle will be/already is elite, but Eichel single-handily takes over games, and also roughly 4 years younger.

Also to those who question Eichel's character: what do you think of Patrick Kane and Tyler Seguin now? If my memory serves Kane beat the s*** out of a cab driver over $4 and the Boston Bruins had to hire a security guard to keep Seguin from getting blackout hammered the night before playoff games. Eichel is 20 and is the face of a struggling franchise with a lot of expectations...give the kid a few years to grow up please.
Honestly if this happened I see a better version of Pittsburgh, you have two of the leagues best Centres(at a young age), you have the best sniper in the league(IMO), Scheifele could stay on Wheelers line and keep his family/ mentor esc chemistry with him, The Jets probably have the Fastest Winger in the league(Ehlers, IMO), you have the best all around Winger(Wheeler, also IMO) and Kyle Connor who could very well be Elite depending on the linemates he has(No Thorburn) and the time he gets on the ice, the Right side D would take a step back(even though they have Myers and Buff) but the Jets could Draft Makar or Liljegren or sign a Free Agent or two and save a lot of Cap Space for Next season, meaning more money for a Goalie or top notch Defender, every game teams would have to pick they're poison with the two lines as they would both be miles ahead of all the other starting lineups in the NHL(Except for McDavid and Draistaitl, they would compare). Don't tell me that's not worth getting rid of Trouba(who has caused trouble in the past, contact hold and Cocain issues).

Think about it

Ehlers Eichel Laine
Connor Scheifele Wheeler


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Old
04-19-2017, 07:03 PM
  #45
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I'm sorry but you just don't trade a player who's going to be a top 5, maybe even top 3 player in the league in 5 years for a 1b defensemen, especially when Trouba is not going to be winning a Norris anytime in his career. Would you trade Eichel for McDonaugh? Hell no and of you asked Tim Murray if he would trade Eichel for Trouba straight up, he'd probably die of laughter.

Trouba will be one of the better dmen in the league and will be integral to the Jets soon to come future playoff success, but please stop saying he's worth as much as Eichel because its really not close. #1C's who are near ppg players in their 20 yr old sophomore season with a constant nagging ankle injury with the worst coach in the NHL are worth more than Drew Doughty. Eichel isn't leaving Buffalo any time soon and if the Sabres hire someone of the likes of Dineen/any coach who will play an aggressive offensive system, Eichel will be in the 95-105 point range. If the Sabres hire an actual knowledgeable NHL coach, ask this question come next April and be laughed off this site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Your evaluation of Trouba as a 1B defenseman is telling, and is underselling his worth. Keep Eichel: we have a centre that just broke 80pts and is on an extremely favourable long term contract, and enough firepower at F to not need Eichel - Trouba is worth far more to the Jets than to the Sabres, obviously.
Exactly YYG.

Sorry Darcy, Trouba is pretty much the defensive equivalent to Eichel. And we've seen how valuable those are.

I'm not underselling Eichels talent and value (I don't think), I think you're undervaluing just how good and valuable Trouba is.

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04-19-2017, 07:09 PM
  #46
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OK..... what does it matter what Boston's GM offered when the Jets where dealing with a hold out. It obviously wasn't sufficient as in the end the Jets didn't accept now did they?

Trouba's value has only gone up substantially since then so once again I hardly see how that trade offer is relevant, I bet Murray has been offered similarly for Echiel we obviously don't here about what most discussions among GM'S entail. I would also echo some of the sentiment on here in that Trouba is worth more to us than Jack would be. Go ahead and keep him, doesn't at all bother me in the least.
At the time Boston was extremely weak on D so in theory they would be offering more to get a much needed piece no? But I'm not here to bash Trouba. Like I said he'll be one of the better dmen in the league. Is the kid gonna win a Norris? I'd say no but I don't know the future. I bet 5-10 years ago a lot of people would've thought Weber would have won the Norris by now.

That being said do you seriously think Trouba is more valuable to the Jets than Eichel would be? Eichel-Laine and Schiefle-Ehlers would be winning cups year after year. Laine would be putting up 60 goal campaigns. Crosby-Malkin would be an afterthought after 5 years of those two pairs. I mean I know defense wins championships but when you have 4 forwards on your roster that are all capable of 80 points (Schefs-Ehlers) and 100+ points (Eich-Laine) your team is going places. But boy would that be a hell of a tight cap situation.

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04-19-2017, 07:15 PM
  #47
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Isn't Eichel supposed to be a "generational talent" (though that term gets used more than once in a generation)?

Eichel is still on his ELC and has already performed.

This isn't a 1:1 flip. Jets add a chunk to this.

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04-19-2017, 07:20 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
At the time Boston was extremely weak on D so in theory they would be offering more to get a much needed piece no? But I'm not here to bash Trouba. Like I said he'll be one of the better dmen in the league. Is the kid gonna win a Norris? I'd say no but I don't know the future. I bet 5-10 years ago a lot of people would've thought Weber would have won the Norris by now.

That being said do you seriously think Trouba is more valuable to the Jets than Eichel would be? Eichel-Laine and Schiefle-Ehlers would be winning cups year after year. Laine would be putting up 60 goal campaigns. Crosby-Malkin would be an afterthought after 5 years of those two pairs. I mean I know defense wins championships but when you have 4 forwards on your roster that are all capable of 80 points (Schefs-Ehlers) and 100+ points (Eich-Laine) your team is going places. But boy would that be a hell of a tight cap situation.
This is what I'm saying but don't forget Wheeler and Kyle Connor who is looking real good. We don't need Trouba as much as everyone one is saying(we have 2 other good'ish defenders on the right side)
And if that's not good enough we can draft more as replacement, Eichel is not replaceable because he is a Franchise Centerman, who if has the weapons will do amazing things(100pt, and improve Laine as well). If there is a 1% chance this deal is possible I'd go above and beyond for it as the Jets GM, Eichel alone(with all the offensive talent) would make us cup contenders for the next 10 years.

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04-19-2017, 07:24 PM
  #49
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At the time Boston was extremely weak on D so in theory they would be offering more to get a much needed piece no? But I'm not here to bash Trouba. Like I said he'll be one of the better dmen in the league. Is the kid gonna win a Norris? I'd say no but I don't know the future. I bet 5-10 years ago a lot of people would've thought Weber would have won the Norris by now.

That being said do you seriously think Trouba is more valuable to the Jets than Eichel would be? Eichel-Laine and Schiefle-Ehlers would be winning cups year after year. Laine would be putting up 60 goal campaigns. Crosby-Malkin would be an afterthought after 5 years of those two pairs. I mean I know defense wins championships but when you have 4 forwards on your roster that are all capable of 80 points (Schefs-Ehlers) and 100+ points (Eich-Laine) your team is going places. But boy would that be a hell of a tight cap situation.
Trouba may never win a Norris but I don't see Jack winning a heart or scoring title either so once again not really sure why you bring this up. Once again Boston would have been clearly trying to buy low when the Jets where up against the wall, wouldn't you? Trouba has also morphed into a top 10 dmen this year so once again the offer is irrelevant as Trouba's value has changed and the JETS aren't in a disadvantaged situation.


You just mentioned why it's not needed/wouldn't work. We can't afford to keep all the forwards. We would also have a paper thin defense so no I don't think Echiel would help this team more.

You build around a franchise C, franchise D and Franchise goalie imo and we have the first two pieces in place already. As for templates I'd rather follow the Chicago one rather then the Pitts one. Pittsburgh works because they have the clear two best centres to play the last decade. Neither Scheifele or Echiel will reach those Heights.

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04-19-2017, 07:26 PM
  #50
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Isn't Eichel supposed to be a "generational talent" (though that term gets used more than once in a generation)?

Eichel is still on his ELC and has already performed.

This isn't a 1:1 flip. Jets add a chunk to this.
Kind of, apparently Eichel was the best prospect(a little better than Stamkos and Tavaras) since Crosby, but McDavid was better than Eichel in the particular year of they're Draft.

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