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Trouba for Eichel

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Old
04-19-2017, 07:32 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by matthole View Post
Kind of, apparently Eichel was the best prospect(a little better than Stamkos and Tavaras) since Crosby, but McDavid was better than Eichel in the particular year of they're Draft.
The term generational is one of the most overused narratives here. Echiel has a long ways to go to distinguish himself from players like Stamkos and Tavaras imo.

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04-19-2017, 07:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Trouba may never win a Norris but I don't see Jack winning a heart or scoring title either so once again not really sure why you bring this up. Once again Boston would have been clearly trying to buy low when the Jets where up against the wall, wouldn't you? Trouba has also morphed into a top 10 dmen this year so once again the offer is irrelevant as Trouba's value has changed and the JETS aren't in a disadvantaged situation.


You just mentioned why it's not needed/wouldn't work. We can't afford to keep all the forwards. We would also have a paper thin defense so no I don't think Echiel would help this team more.

You build around a franchise C, franchise D and Franchise goalie imo and we have the first two pieces in place already. As for templates I'd rather follow the Chicago one rather then the Pitts one. Pittsburgh works because they have the clear two best centres to play the last decade. Neither Scheifele or Echiel will reach those Heights.
Dude you must not have watched Eichel play almost every game of his career as I have (nor have I watched as much of Trouba as you probably have had). [mod] I absolutely think he has the skills to be able to win a scoring title also, it just depends on how Connor does. Eichel will be without a doubt the 1b to mcdavids 1a. Eichel is well on his way to becoming a consistent 45g, 65a player that any team besides EDM would be drooling over to have him on their team. Bear in mind he was near ppg at 20 playing with Marcus Foligno almost the entire season in a dump and chase system. New offensively minded coach + added year of exp + his drive to win = 90-100pt season next year for Eichel.

I just really want to stress the parasite to ES production that Dan Bylsma is to a hockey team. I know Jets fans don't like Maurice either, but Disco Dan is really the worst thing that can happen to your team's success. Y'all should go to bed happy as can be that you at least don't have him.


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 04-19-2017 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Tone it down, please.
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Old
04-19-2017, 07:40 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
That being said do you seriously think Trouba is more valuable to the Jets than Eichel would be? Eichel-Laine and Schiefle-Ehlers would be winning cups year after year.
Maybe you're indicating the Sabres' issue. If they'd put effort into building a roster as opposed to trying to put together four good forwards, Eichel and Bylsma would be getting along right now.

Anyhow, I don't expect many people who don't watch the Jets to know how good Trouba is and a rumoured trade that didn't happen doesn't say anything about his value or his abilities.

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04-19-2017, 07:45 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
Boston's GM is/was/still is? offering the Jets: Krug, a 1st round pick (don't know what year but its probably going to be around #15-25 overall if its 2017) and Jeremy Lauzon for Trouba. You're telling me a true 1a stud defensemen, a guy like Subban, Burns, Karlsson, etc. is going to return you a mid first round pick, a prospect who is under a ppg in his D+ year in the Q, and Torrey Krug? Obviously Boston's GM will slightly undervalue Trouba for his own sake of assest management, but I would imagine any deal with Boston involving a true #1a dman would be returning the likes of Pasternak/Marchand.
Speculation. And an undervaluing of Trouba. Junk proposal.

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Moving on...a franchise center that will be the true cornerstone to their franchise is worth more than Krug, #15-25 overall in a weak draft, and Lauzon. Especially one who will be one of the NHL's "future 4" of McDavid, Eichel, Laine, Matthews. Schiefle will be/already is elite, but Eichel single-handily takes over games, and also roughly 4 years younger.
That's great. If I cared about following the Sabres. If I did, I probably wouldn't be posting on HFJets.

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Also to those who question Eichel's character: what do you think of Patrick Kane and Tyler Seguin now? If my memory serves Kane beat the s*** out of a cab driver over $4 and the Boston Bruins had to hire a security guard to keep Seguin from getting blackout hammered the night before playoff games. Eichel is 20 and is the face of a struggling franchise with a lot of expectations...give the kid a few years to grow up please.
I discussed none of these things - I did not question Eichel's character, and couldn't honestly care less. In case you haven't noticed, this is HFJets, not the main trade boards. I personally don't give two hoots about Eichel, and would rather keep a #1D instead of trading for a very good player who happens to be playing a position that is not a weakness on the Jets.

If you have issues with what others are saying about Eichel, you may want to confront them directly where they're discussing him in a disparaging manner - I haven't seen much of that here, personally. I think most around here understand how valuable a player he is.

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04-19-2017, 07:46 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Trouba may never win a Norris but I don't see Jack winning a heart or scoring title either so once again not really sure why you bring this up. Once again Boston would have been clearly trying to buy low when the Jets where up against the wall, wouldn't you? Trouba has also morphed into a top 10 dmen this year so once again the offer is irrelevant as Trouba's value has changed and the JETS aren't in a disadvantaged situation.


You just mentioned why it's not needed/wouldn't work. We can't afford to keep all the forwards. We would also have a paper thin defense so no I don't think Echiel would help this team more.

You build around a franchise C, franchise D and Franchise goalie imo and we have the first two pieces in place already. As for templates I'd rather follow the Chicago one rather then the Pitts one. Pittsburgh works because they have the clear two best centres to play the last decade. Neither Scheifele or Echiel will reach those Heights.
Firstly I believe Eichel could win a Hart and a Scoring title no problem, though he has to have the right linemates and the Jets have the deepest and probable all in total best Wingers in the league so that's a check mark, next Scheifele and Eichel may not have the talent or skill that Crosby or Malkin(Eichel might one day be as good, possibly), but Pittsburgh never had as many Elite Wingers as the Jets have to make them even better, tell me pairings Pittsburgh has ever had to compare to Ehlers Eichel Laine and Connor/ Perrault Scheifele Wheeler?

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04-19-2017, 07:49 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
Dude you must not have watched Eichel play almost every game of his career as I have (nor have I watched as much of Trouba as you probably have had). But please save yourself embarrassment when you're saying Eichel won't be one of the best centers of his decade. I absolutely think he has the skills to be able to win a scoring title also, it just depends on how Connor does. Eichel will be without a doubt the 1b to mcdavids 1a. Eichel is well on his way to becoming a consistent 45g, 65a player that any team besides EDM would be drooling over to have him on their team. Bear in mind he was near ppg at 20 playing with Marcus Foligno almost the entire season in a dump and chase system. New offensively minded coach + added year of exp + his drive to win = 90-100pt season next year for Eichel.

I just really want to stress the parasite to ES production that Dan Bylsma is to a hockey team. I know Jets fans don't like Maurice either, but Disco Dan is really the worst thing that can happen to your team's success. Y'all should go to bed happy as can be that you at least don't have him.
Well let's see:

McDavid career PPG 1.16
Laine career PPG .87
Mathews career PPG .84
Echiel career PPG .80

Hmm he clearly is the best young offensive talent behind McDavid..not, sorry but your the one embarrassing yourself now. He's one of a collection of 4 impact young players chasing McDavid. Sorry but he's not quite as good as you think he has substantial competetion among players younger than him.

For historical reference, the first two years of Tavaras ppg of .75 and Stamkos ppg of .87. Two great players and probably a fairly good indicator of where Jack will end up. Neither has won a scoring title BTW. Once again if you don't Iikw our views of Trouba well that's too bad.

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04-19-2017, 07:51 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by matthole View Post
Firstly I believe Eichel could win a Hart and a Scoring title no problem, though he has to have the right linemates and the Jets have the deepest and probable all in total best Wingers in the league so that's a check mark, next Scheifele and Eichel may not have the talent or skill that Crosby or Malkin(Eichel might one day be as good, possibly), but Pittsburgh never had as many Elite Wingers as the Jets have to make them even better, tell me pairings Pittsburgh has ever had to compare to Ehlers Eichel Laine and Connor/ Perrault Scheifele Wheeler?
How do you expect to pay them all? One of the reasons Pittsburgh has had to make due with mediocre wingers is due to the salary cap preventing them from spending on high end wing talent. They chose to allocate the rest of their cap on defense for the most part. People forget that a major piece of their team is a top 10 dmen in Letang.

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04-19-2017, 08:08 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Well let's see:

McDavid career PPG 1.16
Laine career PPG .87
Mathews career PPG .84
Echiel career PPG .80

Hmm he clearly is the best young offensive talent behind McDavid..not, sorry but your the one embarrassing yourself now. He's one of a collection of 4 impact young players chasing McDavid. Sorry but he's not quite as good as you think he has substantial competetion among players younger than him.

For historical reference, the first two years of Tavaras ppg of .75 and Stamkos ppg of .87. Two great players and probably a fairly good indicator of where Jack will end up. Neither has won a scoring title BTW. Once again if you don't Iikw our views of Trouba well that's too bad.
Dude...you realize his rookie year he was on probably the worst offensive team in the league right? Also scoring this year is way up compared to last year + Eichel has played almost half of his whole career with one of the worst injuries a player can sustain. He wasn't 100% this whole year and won't be until close to the start of next year. Did he have Schiefle and Ehlers/Little to play with his whole season like Laine did? No he had literally zero help. He's better than anyone on the Jets by a large margin sans Laine, who's close but is a winger.

He also just put up a top 10 season of anyone 20 & younger in terms of ppg since the 2004 lockout playing on the 26th worst team in the NHL. Just wait, next year he'll have a breakout year and you'll be wishing the Jets had him.

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04-19-2017, 08:12 PM
  #59
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Dude.

We all think Eichel is good.

But you're missing the forest for the trees. Lots of teams would give up a mint for a top centre, but it's not a need for the Jets.

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04-19-2017, 08:16 PM
  #60
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I understand, but this is a thread about trading Trouba for a player that the Jets clearly don't need.

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04-19-2017, 08:19 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
How do you expect to pay them all? One of the reasons Pittsburgh has had to make due with mediocre wingers is due to the salary cap preventing them from spending on high end wing talent. They chose to allocate the rest of their cap on defense for the most part. People forget that a major piece of their team is a top 10 dmen in Letang.
Firstly depends, let me fix up the contracts here, Ehlers will probable be 6m(keep in mind it's all IMO, if you disagree I'd like to know though), Laine 8m, Morrissey 5m, Connor(if he pans out) properly 4m and Eichel 9m, and the keepers we have is Scheifele which is 6m, Wheeler who is 6m. That's 44m leaving more than 20m left which I believe should be enough to fill out the other positions, but most people believe Troubas worth 8 mill(from my past experience in a Trouba Thread), which isn't that off from what I bealive Eichel will not to much more expensive(unless he signs in his prime). I don't see a big difference other than losing Little who would clear up cap space.

It would be tight, but it's possible


Last edited by matthole: 04-19-2017 at 08:31 PM.
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04-19-2017, 08:25 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by darcyRegier View Post
Dude...you realize his rookie year he was on probably the worst offensive team in the league right? Also scoring this year is way up compared to last year + Eichel has played almost half of his whole career with one of the worst injuries a player can sustain. He wasn't 100% this whole year and won't be until close to the start of next year. Did he have Schiefle and Ehlers/Little to play with his whole season like Laine did? No he had literally zero help. He's better than anyone on the Jets by a large margin sans Laine, who's close but is a winger.

He also just put up a top 10 season of anyone 20 & younger in terms of ppg since the 2004 lockout playing on the 26th worst team in the NHL. Just wait, next year he'll have a breakout year and you'll be wishing the Jets had him.
Ahh the excuses are already flowing for him not being better. Laine dealt with an injury as did McDavid as rookies. Didn't slow them down. Listen I think Echiel is an excellent young player but he's not above the elite of his age bracket, nore where his first two seasons in the league anything that we haven't seen among numerous great players before. As mentioned the Jets are very good already down the middle and even if he puts up a ppg I still wouldn't want him over Trouba. You are completely free to think differently.

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04-19-2017, 08:32 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by matthole View Post
Firstly depends, let me fix up the contracts here, Ehlers will probable be 6m(keep in mind it's all IMO, if you disagree I'd like to know though), Laine 8m, Morrissey 5m, Connor(if he pans out) properly 4m and Eichel 9m, and the keepers we have is Scheifele which is 6m, Wheeler who is 6m. That's 44m leaving more than 20m left which I believe should be enough to fill out the other positions, but most people believe Troubas worth 8 mill(from my past experience in a Trouba Thread), which isn't that off from what I bealive Eichel will not to much more expensive(unless he signs in his prime). I don't see a big difference other than losing Little who would clear up cap space.

It would be tight,
Ehlers (6) Scheifele (6) Wheeler (6) 18 million
Laine (8) Echiel (8) Connor (2.5) bridge 18.5


Morrissey 5 Buff 7.6 12.6 so you have 25 million left to fill 7 forward spots, 2 goalies and 5 defensemen.

That's an average of 1.8 million per player. That's not going to work.

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04-19-2017, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Ehlers (6) Scheifele (6) Wheeler (6) 18 million
Laine (8) Echiel (8) Connor (2.5) bridge 18.5


Morrissey 5 Buff 7.6 12.6 so you have 25 million left to fill 7 forward spots, 2 goalies and 5 defensemen.

That's an average of 1.8 million per player. That's not going to work.
Trouba at 8 Mill will make a difference? If I where the Jets I'd buy our Bud before the end of next season as well and Draft Liljegren or Makar.

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04-19-2017, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by matthole View Post
Trouba at 8 Mill will make a difference? If I where the Jets I'd buy our Bud before the end of next season as well and Draft Liljegren or Makar.
Players who are in the top ten of scoring for their position don't get bought out.

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04-19-2017, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Ehlers (6) Scheifele (6) Wheeler (6) 18 million
Laine (8) Echiel (8) Connor (2.5) bridge 18.5


Morrissey 5 Buff 7.6 12.6 so you have 25 million left to fill 7 forward spots, 2 goalies and 5 defensemen.

That's an average of 1.8 million per player. That's not going to work.
But for all those contracts to be in play we are at least 3 years in the future. By then the cap has likely grown at least by the escalator amount per season, and Buff is in his final year where he could be moved.

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04-19-2017, 09:54 PM
  #67
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But for all those contracts to be in play we are at least 3 years in the future. By then the cap has likely grown at least by the escalator amount per season, and Buff is in his final year where he could be moved.
True but, you still need to replace Buff with an equivilant dmen otherwise this team will continue to bleed goals. Even if the cap goes to 85 million your looking at things being tight. Plus if the cap increases substantially in the next two years Laine and other player contracts will appreciate in value as well so you might be looking at 9 million for him then instead of 8. It would be my preference to balance the cap among different positions then go top heavy on forward.

18 million first line
15 million second line
8 million third line
4 million for 4th line and depth pieces

45 million for forwards

12 million first pair
11 million second pair
3 million third pair

6 million goaltending

That's roughly 77 million.

Maybe we have can integrate some ELC's on the third to push down costs on the third so we can allocate more funds to the top 6 or 2nd pairing.

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04-19-2017, 10:17 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Trouba for Eichel

then

Eichel for Ekblad
Why don't we cut out the middle man, go straight to Trouba for Ekblad.

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04-19-2017, 10:22 PM
  #69
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Buffalo isn't moving Eichel.

Doubt Jets move Trouba, at least not right now unless they get an overpayment... like Eichel. Wait whut?

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04-19-2017, 10:23 PM
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I'd do Trouba plus Little for Eichel plus Buffalo 1st. I feel trouba little straight up Is massive overpayment but we'd almost have to include little as Eichel would probably be 2nd line center. .
None of this will happen tho

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04-19-2017, 10:48 PM
  #71
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Players who are in the top ten of scoring for their position don't get bought out.
Well than beg him to let us trade him. He's to pricey, and he's not good at his job, defence.

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04-19-2017, 10:52 PM
  #72
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Eichel's value is unfortunately much higher than Trouba's IMO.
No way Buffalo does this (I definitely would though).

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04-20-2017, 12:34 AM
  #73
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Well than beg him to let us trade him. He's to pricey, and he's not good at his job, defence.
This has been done to death. I'll just say PDO and leave it at that.

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04-20-2017, 12:46 AM
  #74
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I'd do Trouba plus Little for Eichel plus Buffalo 1st. I feel trouba little straight up Is massive overpayment but we'd almost have to include little as Eichel would probably be 2nd line center. .
None of this will happen tho
I like it! That's fair value and would do it if I were the Jets.

We'd have the best 1-2 punch at center in the league.

Meets the needs of both teams, because then we can draft Heiskanen to play with Buff next year

Ok that's a stretch... as is this whole conversation because you're right none of this will happen aha

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04-20-2017, 02:03 AM
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I like it! That's fair value and would do it if I were the Jets.

We'd have the best 1-2 punch at center in the league.

Meets the needs of both teams, because then we can draft Heiskanen to play with Buff next year

Ok that's a stretch... as is this whole conversation because you're right none of this will happen aha
I would do it as well, but Crosby and Malkin are still alive and well as the best 1-2 punch at Center, but most definitely the Jets would have the best 1-2 Punch within the top 2 lines and probable the best Offense in the entire league that being said if we got rid of Trouba and Little we make more space in the salary cap, like allot, 7.75m and Pav will be out as well at the end of the season leaving another 3.9m on top of the left open 6.6 we have today, that's roughly 17m, and we could get a Goalie like Bishop on a one year contract and a defender like Shattenkirk with that much space, and then you have a Stanly Cup contender, but at the Draft the Jet should or would have to pick up Liljegren(because we could only afford Shatt for a season, as Eichel is going to ask for 8 or 9m) or Valimaki to Depthen out the Left side as Heiskanen and all the other LD's aren't NHL ready just yet, but Valimaki is kind of ready. But yeah if I where Chevy and I where being questioned about the size of my balls the amount that he has been I would call Buffalo right now and say " Trouba, Little and 2, 2nd Rounders for Eichel"

I would love have Eichel on our team, but I'd much rather have Trouba and attempt to jump up to the top spot in the draft and get Nolan Patrick or Nico Hischier as they would be cheaper, less of an attitude concern and probable wouldn't need to contribute with the linemates they have(pick your poison: Laine, Ehlers, Wheeler, Perrault or even Connor if he's progressed enough), if I where Chevy I'd see if Eichel is tradable, then wait until the draft and try and send Little, our 1st pick and our second this year and next year as well for the 1st Overall pick.


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