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What are the Flames missing? Please read the OP first*

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Old
04-20-2017, 09:44 AM
  #101
Mr Positive
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Originally Posted by madmike77 View Post
It really is the goaltending. In part it's just how bad some of the goals allowed have been. Those soft goals are absolutely crushing to a team. Players tighten up because they feel they can't allow a shot on goal.

Look at the two from Elliott tonight. No NHL goalie can give up those goals.

The Flames D is fine (technically they only have 3 right now - Giordano, Hamilton and Brodie).

They need a superstar - which they wont get because the rest of the team is too good to finish in the running for a top pick.

The only other piece they need that they could legitimately acquire is a top line RW.

They're a young team that will likely be even younger next year with guys like Lazar, Jankowski, Andersson and Gillies slotting into the lineup.
Goalies letting in soft goals like that is more complex than that imo. I've seen it happen a lot in the league, where goalies who are not supported right start to have bad habits creep into their game, and it messes with their heads in other ways.

But we will see. I'm pretty sure this loss will inspire the Flames to get a bigger name goalie this time, and pony up for someone like Bishop or Fleury or someone else like that. If that move fixes the team then obviously I was wrong.

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04-20-2017, 09:45 AM
  #102
tempest2i
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Curious question, how's Russell's advanced stats? It's odd that Edmonton is tooting his horn because we took a hell of a lot of grief trying to defend the fact he's more valuable than his advanced stats say. Many Flames fans didn't mind having him back as a UFA, but the salary wouldn't allow it. That being said, we need more defensive Dmen that can move the puck and police the back.
You only asked that question becuase you already knew the answer.

Russell continues to post terrible advanced stats numbers. He also continues to sacrifice his body to block shots and he appears by all accounts to be a very popular member of the team.

He is a cog in a machine. He's not the engine that drives it.

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04-20-2017, 10:04 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
Goalies letting in soft goals like that is more complex than that imo. I've seen it happen a lot in the league, where goalies who are not supported right start to have bad habits creep into their game, and it messes with their heads in other ways.

But we will see. I'm pretty sure this loss will inspire the Flames to get a bigger name goalie this time, and pony up for someone like Bishop or Fleury or someone else like that. If that move fixes the team then obviously I was wrong.
The bottom pairing was also a huge problem, but it will change next year. I mean look at Bartkowski's playoff stats. The guy averaged about 10 minutes per game against the worst competition Anaheim had to offer and still managed to rack up a -5.

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04-20-2017, 10:05 AM
  #104
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Goaltending and another top centre.

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04-20-2017, 10:17 AM
  #105
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I think they are doing fine. They dont need anything

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04-20-2017, 10:27 AM
  #106
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Fans in the current generation of the NHL have ability to have patience for player development. Calgary doesn't have any needs.

STOP THINKING LIKE BRIAN BURKE.

The idea that you can go out and get an upgraded #1 goalie like Bishop or Grubauer and sign a #3D/#4D and a Top 6 winger and you are a playoff team is the wrong attitude to be taking.

Looking at the past 30 years of NHL history there is only one team in 30 years not seeded #1-#6 to win the Stanley cup. For fans to be upset or disappointed they didn't get further, it doesn't matter at all.

The concept of them getting to the playoffs in a #6 #7 or #8 seed is about player development and experience. Just getting here is beneficial for every young kid on that roster. Players learn to be winners by experiencing how much they hate losing.

The flames have two goalie prospects that both have the ability to turn into elite #1 goalies.

The flames have two defense prospects in Andersson/Kylington that should both translate into #3D/#4D players in the next 2-3 years.

All they are missing is experience which is going to come with giving these players time. When your core guys like Monahan and Bennett are 24-26 years old that is the time where you need to be a contender for the cup.

You don't need to be a contender when your young players are 20 or 21 years old.

You won't win by signing quick fixes. All it's going to do is having you drafting lesser talents. By signing these fixes aka Brouwer, Raymond, etc all you are doing is taking away valuable ice time for young kids that could be playing 3rd and 4th line roles and getting experience.

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04-20-2017, 10:34 AM
  #107
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You can't wait two or three years for Gilles, Parsons, and Andersson to develop.

A goalie and resigning Stone are crucial for the next two years.

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04-20-2017, 10:42 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post

The flames have two goalie prospects that both have the ability to turn into elite #1 goalies.

The flames have two defense prospects in Andersson/Kylington that should both translate into #3D/#4D players in the next 2-3 years.\
Players don't always turn into what you hope they'll be, regardless of how well they've played in the AHL, CHL, Europe, NCAA, etc.

It's not a bad thing to go out and sign a guy like Bishop or a defenceman, if you end up with too many good players, that's not a bad thing.

Calgary shouldn't be trading picks/prospects for players as a general rule, but there's no reason they can't explore free agency to fix a hole or two. Chicago jumped from good young team to Cup contender/winner by signing Hossa + Campbell for example.

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04-20-2017, 10:46 AM
  #109
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Mediocre goaltending and overrated D core outside of gio.

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04-20-2017, 10:48 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
I think they are doing fine. They dont need anything
You are right they don't.

Calgary's #2D and #3D are better than the #1D in Edmonton. The problem is the #4D #5D and #6D in Edmonton have been better than the bottom 3 in Calgary.

I wouldn't want to be Edmonton though.

McDavid is going to cost you $14.6 million PER SEASON once is entry level contract expires. You aren't going to get him on a bridge deal or an 8 year deal at a reasonable cap hit of 8m or even 10m.

In case people haven't figured this out it's a guarantee McDavid will get 7 year 100 million offers from any conceivable team with the cap space to do it. It's a no brainer that you give up those FIVE 1st round picks without even thinking twice.

It's very conceivable that Draisatl gets 7.5m to 8.0m as an RFA with his inflated stats from playing with McDavid. Maroon similary to Draisatl is going to get at least 6m to 6.5m for inflated goal scoring with McDavid.

McDavid 14.6M
Draisatl 8.0M
Maroon 6.5M

Total $29.1M

You are not going to win Stanley cups when 40% of your salary cap is on one single line.

The oilers still need a legit #1D to emerge and they don't have it. You at best have a #2 in Larsson and a #3/#4 in Klefbom. Sekera is a solid #3D/#4D and Russell no matter you think is a #5D.

Edmonton is sort of in that same boat as Calgary. The difference is Edmonton has a clear #1C and a viable #1 goalie. They lack true high end #1D/#2D and I would argue have one of the weakest 2nd lines amongst any NHL team in the playoffs.

Eberle and Hopkins is a #2 line that is not going to win you a Stanley cup. You are living a pipe dream if you think otherwise.

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04-20-2017, 10:50 AM
  #111
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Seems like they're simply a good team but not very close to being a great one yet, so you're going to be prone to getting bounced out early. Probably just need to grow and gain experience while shaping the roster here and there the next couple years.

They'll be in the market for a goaltender. Please take Fleury. Would they go after Bishop? I don't know their situation well enough.

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Old
04-20-2017, 10:52 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Mediocre goaltending and overrated D core outside of gio.
Goaltending isn't mediocore. The goaltending is horrible. It didn't matter if you are playing Elliot or Johnson they are both average quality NHL goalies.

The D isn't over rated at all.

Any team in the NHL would be ecstatic to get either Brodie or Hamilton. They are both solid #2D/#3D guys with a #1D ceiling.

All that matters is what the team has in prospect depth. They have no urgent needs at all.

The only thing needed is time to gain experience and maturity for these kids.

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04-20-2017, 11:08 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Seems like they're simply a good team but not very close to being a great one yet, so you're going to be prone to getting bounced out early. Probably just need to grow and gain experience while shaping the roster here and there the next couple years.

They'll be in the market for a goaltender. Please take Fleury. Would they go after Bishop? I don't know their situation well enough.
They won't consider Fleury unless PIT is retaining 50% and giving him away.

The two options they will explore.

1) Sign Ben Bishop to a 5 year deal at a max $32.5m.

2) Acquire via trade Grubauer, Korpisalo, Pickard, Raanta, Darling. Due to expansion draft most of these guys should be available for a 2018 2nd round pick or a B level prospect such as shinkaruk.

3) Acquire another teams current #1 goalie. It's as likely the teams that are going to lose the goalies above could equally consider trading their high paid #1 goalies. Lowers their cap and gets them a higher return. In a situation like this Holtby, Crawford, Lundquist and Price become targets.

Option three seems less likely on the outside but it also makes more sense. Guys like Price or Holtby only have 1-2 years before they hit UFA status. These goalies are young and in their prime. It's just going to cost more something along the lines of 1st round pick + Andersson/Kylington + Shinkaruk/Klimchuk + Gillies/Parsons.

If Washington were to trade;

Holtby

Calgary were to trade;

1st round pick - 17th overall
Andersson
Klimchuk
Gillies

Sure Washington gives up a Top 5 NHL goalie. They also have Grubauer who had virtually identical stats as Holtby. It's conceivable if they are beat by Toronto in the first round as Holtby has just not been the goalie that has worked for Washington in the playoffs.

Either way the flames have at least a dozen options they will explore before Fleury's name comes up. Unless Fleury is coming here at 4M a season or with something of value attached to him why would the flames help the penguins out.

I know Penguin fans are saying but but but Fleury is amazing these playoffs. Matt Murray single handedly gives Fleury negative trade value.

Fleury's on the wrong side of 30, questionable how well he'd play on another team and comes with a larger salary than a dozen other goalies that are better options.

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04-20-2017, 11:29 AM
  #114
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These playoffs sting for sure but the kids got some experience, Monahan and Bennett showed, that they can play in the playoffs and produce. I am going to guess Johnny may have been playing with an injury but we will know soon enough(Johnny needs to do some soul searching and have a good summer of working out and getting mentally tough.) Tkachuk learned some valuable lessons and Dougie Hamilton and TJ Brodie need to have good summer, working out and all that other good stuff.

The core of this team is good but they need pieces added to it, this summer will be huge for Brad Trevling(assuming he is back), the biggest need right now is goaltending and despite all the ******** going on around the Flames right now they are in a good place to get a goaltender they like(you cannot put all your eggs in the prospects basket because you never know how they are going to end up) because of the expansion draft(the Flames now know all the goalie changes that will happen and can go according.)

The team desperately needs another top line player(not a borderline top 6 forward but a top line forward, this needs to be a young player that fits into the core and can become a cornerstone. And these don't grow on tree's).

The team has some dead weight coming off(mostly on the backend) but they need dead weight to come off the front as well(Brouwer, Bouma and Stajan), if Las Vegas takes Brouwer that can be huge help for the Flames.

This was good for the team, as it gives them playoff experience and it gives management a good idea of where they are and it saved the team from giving Brian Elliott a long term deal and than regretting it.

Biggest team needs:

A true #1 goaltender(someone who can play 60+ games and post above .920 Save % and GA of 2.25, you get the point.)

A young core player that can play on the top line and become a cornerstone.

A very good top 4 D(wonder what the team think about Stone.)

Get rid of the dead weight(some is coming off and some hopefully other dead weight come off as well.)

More depth through out the lineup and get some of the kids from the farm, so that they can bring energy.

The bottom D needs works.

The worst thing Flames can do now is just wait and say "we are just going wait until our core matures", there was a 17 point change(in a positive way) from last year, build on that and add the right pieces.

Other than that it sucks, dam you Ducks


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Old
04-20-2017, 11:30 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
They won't consider Fleury unless PIT is retaining 50% and giving him away.

The two options they will explore.

1) Sign Ben Bishop to a 5 year deal at a max $32.5m.

2) Acquire via trade Grubauer, Korpisalo, Pickard, Raanta, Darling. Due to expansion draft most of these guys should be available for a 2018 2nd round pick or a B level prospect such as shinkaruk.

3) Acquire another teams current #1 goalie. It's as likely the teams that are going to lose the goalies above could equally consider trading their high paid #1 goalies. Lowers their cap and gets them a higher return. In a situation like this Holtby, Crawford, Lundquist and Price become targets.

Option three seems less likely on the outside but it also makes more sense. Guys like Price or Holtby only have 1-2 years before they hit UFA status. These goalies are young and in their prime. It's just going to cost more something along the lines of 1st round pick + Andersson/Kylington + Shinkaruk/Klimchuk + Gillies/Parsons.

If Washington were to trade;

Holtby

Calgary were to trade;

1st round pick - 17th overall
Andersson
Klimchuk
Gillies


Sure Washington gives up a Top 5 NHL goalie. They also have Grubauer who had virtually identical stats as Holtby. It's conceivable if they are beat by Toronto in the first round as Holtby has just not been the goalie that has worked for Washington in the playoffs.

Either way the flames have at least a dozen options they will explore before Fleury's name comes up. Unless Fleury is coming here at 4M a season or with something of value attached to him why would the flames help the penguins out.

I know Penguin fans are saying but but but Fleury is amazing these playoffs. Matt Murray single handedly gives Fleury negative trade value.

Fleury's on the wrong side of 30, questionable how well he'd play on another team and comes with a larger salary than a dozen other goalies that are better options.
**** no to that, there will be cheap options because of the expansion draft.

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04-20-2017, 11:46 AM
  #116
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Yep, no goalie is worth that package.

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Old
04-20-2017, 11:48 AM
  #117
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I also want people to stop thinking Sam Bennett is a bust or a disappointment. The flames have FOUR, count them FOUR guys that have ceilings as a #1C.

Monahan
Bennett
Backlund
Jankowski

Monahan isn't likely going to be a guy that will be a Top 10 scorer in the NHL. He's a #1C that plays a complete 200 foot game and very well will score 30+ a year during his prime. He scored 4 goals in 4 playoff games this year.

Conclusion: Monahan in the next 3-5 years is going to be similar to Getzlaf in his prime.

Backlund has developed slowly into center that will play against the other teams #1C and will allow Monahan and Bennett to play against other teams' 2nd or 3rd lines which will be a tremendous advantage for the Flames. Backlund has demonstrated in the last 2 seasons that he is going to be a Top 5 finalist for the Selke for a few years at least. Having a center of Backlund's skill is a luxury most teams in the NHL don't have. He is a shut down #1C with defensive and offensive skills most teams would kill for.

Conclusion:Will be the center on the #2, #3 or possibly #4 line. Whichever line he is on will be matched against the other teams #1 line.

Bennett is not a bust. I laugh when I see people that think he is a bust just because his offensive numbers haven't been there. News flash people outside of Johnny the Flames' coaches have always been about getting their young kids to play a complete game. They bring these kids up with sheltered minutes so they can develop. I watched 22 games at the Saddledome this year and Sam Bennett is still that high end tenacious young kid we drafted.

Conclusion:Bennett will either be the #2 center next year or playing RW on the #1 or #2 lines. It's very likely he will put up at 20-25 goals and 50-60 points. This entire year he has played 3rd and 4th line minutes with 3rd and 4th line skilled linemates.

It's reasonable to assume players like Marner/Nylander if they were playing on the 3rd/4th lines with the same players wouldn't have come close to putting up the same number of points.

As it is Leaf's Fans are in for a shock next year when ALL 3 of Matthews, Marner and Nylander DONT improve on this year. It's most likely 2 out of 3 will regress.

Jankowski is the wild card. Nearly point per game rookie in the AHL. It's no secret to Flames' Fans that Jankowski has a very high end skill set. Arguably our best future center.

Conclusion: Will arguably surpass both Bennett and Monahan and could make Backlund an expendable asset. 6'4" 200LB Center with a complete 200 foot game. Jankowski could end up being a 25-30 goal center with shut down defensive capabilities.


THREE out of the FOUR Centers we have project to be 200 foot guys that can score 20-25 and play at a high level of defence.

THREE out of the FOUR Centers have demonstrated they can successfully win faceoffs against the other team's best players. It's the most basic and important thing a center should be good at. An Elite Center isn't so hot when he can't get the puck for his team.

BENNETT is the one Center we have that will project more towards being the pure offensive Talent. In 2-3 years the Flames Lineup projection without UFAs should look something like this.

Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland
Tkachuk - Monahan - Shinkaruk
Klimchuk - Backlund - Frolik
Chiasson - Jankowski - Lazar

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Stone
Andersson - Kylington

Gillies
Bishop

If you look at what each of Shinkaruk, Klimchuk, Jankowski and Lazar should develop into you would know that the Flames have a very bright future ahead of them. That is a very solid Top 9 where even the 4th line has offensive capabilities to it.

The two biggest weaknesses we currently have Goaltending and Defensive Depth will be address from within.

John Gillies will emerge as a #1 goalie in the next 2-3 years while playing behind and learning from Ben Bishop. Gilles is virtually a clone of Bishop. They have the same size and style. The fit is exactly what is needed.

Our current Defensive Depth is what is hurting us. We have to over play Giordano, Brodie and Hamilton as a result to shelter guys like Engeland, Bartkowski, etc. If we can re-sign Stone for a reasonable deal there is no reason to believe that Andersson and Kylington won't be solid #5 and #6 options that have ceilings of #2 or #3 D men.

This is how you build a winner. You won't build a winner by going out and buy UFAs. Look back at the history of the NHL and more specifically high end UFA signings. Very few of these high end UFA signings have ever resulted in making a dramatic impact for the team that signs them. Even further end up contributing helping a team to the Quarter Finals or beyond.

Trading Draft Picks for Young Kids is an exception. Trading a 2nd round pick for Lazar as an example. Instead of drafting #38 we have to realize that Lazar is the #38 overall pick. There is nothing wrong with trading assets for assets. Calgary has done very well at trading draft picks for young players with high ceilings.

Hamilton, Shinkaruk, Lazar as prime examples.

Signing UFAs for the most part will be a downfall that is going to hurt your team long term.

Frolik is the only UFA that has benefited us. Hiller, Brouwer, Raymond, Engeland, Wideman, etc have all had contracts that turn into Boat Anchors. These players also quickly show you It's not worth signing guys as UFAs to fill in roster spots that should be utilized for players like Klimchuk, Shinkaruk, Lazar, Jankowski etc to develop.

So Flame's Fans if this doesn't paint a good picture for you nothing will. We have no sizable gaps to finish. We don't need to sign #1 RW or a #1 goalie if the two are going to cost us $13M a season.

Other teams like Edmonton have demonstrated you find guys like Patrick Maroon that can be first line players. Mind you Edmonton is also a prime example of UFAs like Lucic and Russell that as time goes on will be absolute failures.

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04-20-2017, 11:52 AM
  #118
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Better goaltending is the big obvious need. Plus better overall depth, and they also need their core forwards to grow into a slightly better group (probably mostly need Monahan to improve, Gaudreau has shown he can be a top flight winger).

As far as comparing their core forwards to top contending teams, I don't think they're quite there yet. Gaudreau + Monahan + Tkachuk aren't as good as Crosby + Malkin + Kessel, Toews + Kane + Panarin, Getzlaf + Perry + Kesler, Ovechkin + Backstrom + Kuznetsov, etc.

I guess their core forwards are the same level as teams like NYR, Minnesota, St. Louis, etc, but those teams also have some combination of better depth and/or elite goaltending, and still none of them have won a Cup, and all could have arguably used another legit franchise guy up front to make them more competitive.

I definitely agree with there but Monahan had a good playoff(4 goals and 1 assist in 4 games- In total 15 games played for a total 11 points(7 Goals and 4 assists) but he definitely needs to get better(totally agree with there Leafer).

What is this needs the most is a top line forward(preferably a RW), someone that is young and can become a cornerstone. And these don't grow on tree's but if they can get one it pushes everyone down a spot where they belong.

A true #1 goalie, this has been discussed to death.

Get rid of Brouwer, Bouma and Stajan and bring in the young kids, if you can unload Brouwer on Vegas that is huge help for the Flames(get George McPhee anything he wants(outside of NHL assets of course), we are in Nevada, pick your Penthouse George.

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04-20-2017, 11:54 AM
  #119
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Yep, no goalie is worth that package.
Well I wouldn't go that far. Holtby or Price would be worth it. Either one would also cement us with a Top 5 NHL goalie for the next 8 years.

It's more reasonable to bring Bishop in for 5 years and to let Gilles develop behind him. Give Bishop 55-60 games and let Gillies play 20-25 games. As Gillies develops and demonstrates he can be the #1 you start to have it where they are both playing 40-50 games a year each.

The point here is we can't pay more than $8-9m TOTAL for solid goaltending. So Bishop at 6.0 to 6.5 and Gillies at 2.0m to 3.0m would be idea. Bishop would be a 6M backup in final 1-2 years of the contract if things go accordingly.

This is the ideal option for the flames so we are not trading away guys like Andersson, Shinkaruk, Gillies or even Parsons.

Edit: Limiting Bishop to 50-55 games would be preferential to avoid future injuries. It's the one area that has the Flames concerned.

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04-20-2017, 11:54 AM
  #120
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You only asked that question becuase you already knew the answer.

Russell continues to post terrible advanced stats numbers. He also continues to sacrifice his body to block shots and he appears by all accounts to be a very popular member of the team.

He is a cog in a machine. He's not the engine that drives it.
Sorry. I wasn't actually trying to be facetious, I was legitimately curious whether his advanced stats improved after he moved out of Bob Hartley's system as I was curious if a player's advanced stat can change in a system (as opposed to just quality of line mate).

I didn't expect it to change, but I was curious if it did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
Fans in the current generation of the NHL have ability to have patience for player development. Calgary doesn't have any needs.

STOP THINKING LIKE BRIAN BURKE.

The idea that you can go out and get an upgraded #1 goalie like Bishop or Grubauer and sign a #3D/#4D and a Top 6 winger and you are a playoff team is the wrong attitude to be taking.

You won't win by signing quick fixes. All it's going to do is having you drafting lesser talents. By signing these fixes aka Brouwer, Raymond, etc all you are doing is taking away valuable ice time for young kids that could be playing 3rd and 4th line roles and getting experience.

Yes and no. Technically, I believe we have proven we are a playoff team so we aren't acquiring guys to squeak in. We however have a few contracts expiring and we are looking to maintain or exceed the status quo by signing/trading a few guys, and not just barely squeak in again.

We have no goalies on contract next season as Elliott and Johnson contracts are expiring. The argument is whether to go with them, get Bishop or equal or trade for a young guy to maintain that level of goal tending or gamble on exceeding them in the future.

Smid, Wideman and Engelland are expiring. There are so many posters who think Andersson should play the bottom pairing. If he can prove it in preseason, sure. But he's literally the ONLY RHD on the farm and if placed on the bottom pairing, an injury to a RHD would be bad. Which is why some of us think a bottom pairing RHD is needed instead and Andersson could play #1D in Stockton, whether that's re-signing Engelland or acquiring someone else. The bottom pairing LHD and 7th D should be from the farm though, I agree.

Few Flames fans are interested in adding forwards unless it's a clear cut 1RW that works for us. All other spots to be filled by kids. In fact we're hoping to get rid of a middle 6 RW or two to make room for kids and young guys (Versteeg might be one of those guys to make room for Chiasson and Lazar).

Lastly, we're thinking our goalie coach needs to go. It's weird seeing some decent goalies come to our org then sit on career death's knell ON TOP of not seeing any goalies develop out of our system (he was the minor league affiliate coach until we promoted him when Malarchuk retired to deal with personal demons). We think it's the goalie coach's fault. Kipper was the last guy we could call a legit starter.

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04-20-2017, 11:57 AM
  #121
Method Man
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Originally Posted by viper0220 View Post
There is a good chance that the Flames will not get past the Ducks, going forward in your opinion, what are the Flames missing? What do they need to take that next step? Seeing the Flames in the regular season this year and the playoffs this year, what did you like and what did you not like? They got lot's of dead weight coming off, so that will help.

Everyone please don't turn this into a Flames vs Oilers or any other team, if you want to talk about the Oilers or any other team, please open up a new thread. Thank You.*I will put please read the OP, so please read this message.
Thanks for opening yet another thread for people to **** all over our team, there wasn't enough already

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04-20-2017, 11:58 AM
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New management- and that includes getting rid of Burke

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04-20-2017, 12:14 PM
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viper0220
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Thanks for opening yet another thread for people to **** all over our team, there wasn't enough already

It does not matter if anyone is ******** on the team, it is always good to get outside perspective and outside people will be honest(this maybe in a critical way but if you cannot take the critical reviews of others, you will never get better.) Organisations do this all the time, they bring in people from the outside to see that they think of them.

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04-20-2017, 12:16 PM
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New management- and that includes getting rid of Burke
Burke is really not making any of the decisions(on ice related), Burke is really between the GM and the owner ship.

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04-20-2017, 12:17 PM
  #125
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Either way the flames have at least a dozen options they will explore before Fleury's name comes up. Unless Fleury is coming here at 4M a season or with something of value attached to him why would the flames help the penguins out.

I know Penguin fans are saying but but but Fleury is amazing these playoffs. Matt Murray single handedly gives Fleury negative trade value.

Fleury's on the wrong side of 30, questionable how well he'd play on another team and comes with a larger salary than a dozen other goalies that are better options.
It was just a joke. We're trying to give him away.

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