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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

What are the Flames missing? Please read the OP first*

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Old
04-20-2017, 12:32 PM
  #126
DJJones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post

Jankowski is the wild card. Nearly point per game rookie in the AHL. It's no secret to Flames' Fans that Jankowski has a very high end skill set. Arguably our best future center.

Conclusion: Will arguably surpass both Bennett and Monahan and could make Backlund an expendable asset. 6'4" 200LB Center with a complete 200 foot game. Jankowski could end up being a 25-30 goal center with shut down defensive capabilities.
I thought I was high on Jankowski haha. If he surpases Bennett and Monahan we will have the best center depth in the league.

I'm not holding my breath though. I'll be quite happy if he is an effective two way middle 6 player.

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04-20-2017, 01:10 PM
  #127
madmike77
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Seems like they're simply a good team but not very close to being a great one yet, so you're going to be prone to getting bounced out early. Probably just need to grow and gain experience while shaping the roster here and there the next couple years.

They'll be in the market for a goaltender. Please take Fleury. Would they go after Bishop? I don't know their situation well enough.
They will likely go after Bishop. They'd likely prefer not to sign a long-term deal because they have two very good goalie prospects in Parsons and Gillies, but neither is ready yet.

Realistically, if they want Bishop they're going to have to offer 4-5 years. They'll have a good chunk of cap room, so they could do it.

In a way Fleury might be a better option because two years is a better term for the Flames. By that point they'll know what they have in Parsons and Gillies. Personally I think Parsons will be their guy long-term, but with goalies you never know.

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Old
04-20-2017, 01:11 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper0220 View Post
It does not matter if anyone is ******** on the team, it is always good to get outside perspective and outside people will be honest(this maybe in a critical way but if you cannot take the critical reviews of others, you will never get better.) Organisations do this all the time, they bring in people from the outside to see that they think of them.
I didn't realize you were a member of the organization and learning from other fans that don't watch the team will help make us better

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Old
04-20-2017, 01:20 PM
  #129
leaflover
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I think they need focus more than anything. Sure more experience and goaltending etc. are real as well but most of their problems were between the ears.

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04-20-2017, 01:27 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by lomiller1 View Post
When is the last time a team won the Cup with a 1A/1B guy as their #1 C?
2010, 2013, and 2015

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04-20-2017, 01:36 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Menzinger View Post
New management- and that includes getting rid of Burke
Burkie is a total flop, every where he goes...Seems to be the biggest moron in hockey...why anyone would hire him, after his performance in TO is mind boggling....

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04-20-2017, 01:38 PM
  #132
madmike77
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Burkie is a total flop, every where he goes...Seems to be the biggest moron in hockey...why anyone would hire him, after his performance in TO is mind boggling....
He doesn't handle personnel decisions. At least not at this point. If Treliving doesn't come back then yeah it would be a problem.

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04-20-2017, 01:39 PM
  #133
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legit goalie.
Elliot is not the answer.

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Old
04-20-2017, 01:53 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Method Man View Post
I didn't realize you were a member of the organization and learning from other fans that don't watch the team will help make us better
I never said that I was part of any organization, what I said was that organizations, go to outside sources to see what they think of their organisation. And there also Flames discussing with other fans as well, if you don't want to be here no one is forcing you.

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04-20-2017, 01:56 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by DJJones View Post
I thought I was high on Jankowski haha. If he surpases Bennett and Monahan we will have the best center depth in the league.

I'm not holding my breath though. I'll be quite happy if he is an effective two way middle 6 player.
We will need to see what Jankowski does in the AHL playoffs but the kids has lot's of potential.

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04-20-2017, 01:56 PM
  #136
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wow, this thread was not the horrorshow i imagined it to be, a lot of responses are actually reasonable.

i think these tell the story of the flames in the playoffs:



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Old
04-20-2017, 02:35 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
Fans in the current generation of the NHL have ability to have patience for player development. Calgary doesn't have any needs.

STOP THINKING LIKE BRIAN BURKE.

The idea that you can go out and get an upgraded #1 goalie like Bishop or Grubauer and sign a #3D/#4D and a Top 6 winger and you are a playoff team is the wrong attitude to be taking.

Looking at the past 30 years of NHL history there is only one team in 30 years not seeded #1-#6 to win the Stanley cup. For fans to be upset or disappointed they didn't get further, it doesn't matter at all.

The concept of them getting to the playoffs in a #6 #7 or #8 seed is about player development and experience. Just getting here is beneficial for every young kid on that roster. Players learn to be winners by experiencing how much they hate losing.

The flames have two goalie prospects that both have the ability to turn into elite #1 goalies.

The flames have two defense prospects in Andersson/Kylington that should both translate into #3D/#4D players in the next 2-3 years.

All they are missing is experience which is going to come with giving these players time. When your core guys like Monahan and Bennett are 24-26 years old that is the time where you need to be a contender for the cup.

You don't need to be a contender when your young players are 20 or 21 years old.

You won't win by signing quick fixes. All it's going to do is having you drafting lesser talents. By signing these fixes aka Brouwer, Raymond, etc all you are doing is taking away valuable ice time for young kids that could be playing 3rd and 4th line roles and getting experience.
You aren't totally wrong, but while this team is young, some of the defensemen are getting up there. The question becomes: Do they have time to wait for a goalie to develop?

This is also why teams do usually build from the net out.

Would signing a 31 year old Bishop to a long-term contract be a bad idea? Probably. However, if that somehow results in a Stanley Cup win then it will never be a bad move.

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04-20-2017, 02:44 PM
  #138
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If the Flames received just average goaltending then they would still be in this playoff series. Elliott sank this team in the most important time of the season. If you look at the way this team players after a poor start, they were winning games at a 2 to 1 ratio and were looking like an elite team at times.

I think we all saw what happened when they took Wideman and Jokipakka out and replaced them with better options. They went on a 10 game winning streak. That's what the Flames need. Add a quality #4 defenseman and maybe 2 bottom 6 wingers. One speedy and one power forward and a reliable starting goaltender and I think they're back at the dance next season.

If the young players like Bennett, Tkachuk, Hamilton, Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland and Lazar take another step, look out because this team could be real good.

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Old
04-20-2017, 02:57 PM
  #139
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Goaltending
Top pairing shutdown defenseman
Skilled puck carriers - this is a huge hole IMO. Gaudreau, Backlund, Bennett, and Ferland are the only guys who can carry the puck effectively. The team just lacks speed and skill up front. Tkachuk, Monahan, Frolik, Brouwer, Chiasson etc are just not great puck carriers in this league because they are either too slow or lack the skill/IQ to make plays at top speed, and that puts a lot of pressure on the other guys to lug the puck (and makes it that much easier to shut them down).

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Old
04-20-2017, 09:01 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJJones View Post
I thought I was high on Jankowski haha. If he surpases Bennett and Monahan we will have the best center depth in the league.

I'm not holding my breath though. I'll be quite happy if he is an effective two way middle 6 player.
I was able to watch a lot of the live games this year with Stockton. The streaming isn't great but AHL games are fun to watch with guys like Jankowski, Klimchuk and Gillies down there.

I don't think Jankowski will be elite at any one thing but I thing he will be very good at just about every facet of his game. I honestly don't envision Bennett ending up as our #1 and I can't imagine all 4 centers playing center. It would be a waste for any of them to be playing on the 4th line.

It makes the most sense to develop Bennett as a top line winger. The one area I don't think Bennett is going to improve on is his winning faceoffs or being a more complete defensive player.

Jankowski is a prime example of what can happen when you let a kid mature and gain experience at a steady rate and don't rush them. He's gained confidence and experience every year in the NCAA and AHL. Each year he's been a better player than the year prior.

That is the sort of result you expect from your top end prospects. There is just absolutely no reason that he shouldn't be the kind of play that you can count on to score 20-25 goals a year.

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04-21-2017, 12:12 AM
  #141
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Goaltending has been an issue for Calgary ever since kipper retired. This offseason is a good year to possibly get one with vegas having the choice of all of the best backups in the league and the likely scenario that they will deal 1 or 2 to get picks or forwards. Bishop would also be an interesting option but there are health issues and I don't know what he will be demanding and what Calgary is willing to pay.

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04-21-2017, 01:23 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
You aren't totally wrong, but while this team is young, some of the defensemen are getting up there. The question becomes: Do they have time to wait for a goalie to develop?

This is also why teams do usually build from the net out.

Would signing a 31 year old Bishop to a long-term contract be a bad idea? Probably. However, if that somehow results in a Stanley Cup win then it will never be a bad move.

Only one is getting up there and we have quality defensive prospects nearly ready to contribute.

30 years of NHL UFA history dictates old overpriced UFAs do not win championships.

All the recent champions have developed their core and continually replenished their team by restocking prospects every year.

If these UFAs that are targeted were game changers firstly they likely arent signing in Calgary. Secondly, if these UFAs are impact game changing players they wouldnt be UFAs.

Its one thing to sign bottom pair or bottom six guys. Signing 31-33 year old players on decline of their career will cost a gm their job

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04-21-2017, 01:31 AM
  #143
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Also this waiting for a goalie to develop is backwards thinking.

There is no difference between giving Gillies @23 or Parsons @20 an opportunity to be the guy when you have guys playing @18 or 19 years old.

Nobody knows if either could be a superstar if they arent afforded the opportunity.

Why target other team 22 and 23 year old goalies when we have our own that possibly are just as good.

People are afraid to give young goalies a shot out of fear of missing playoffs.

News flash finishing 7th or 8th losing in 4 straight in round one is counter productive.

You dont win the cup finishing 7th or 8th. Its happened 2 times in the past 35 years.

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04-21-2017, 01:51 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
You are right they don't.

Calgary's #2D and #3D are better than the #1D in Edmonton. The problem is the #4D #5D and #6D in Edmonton have been better than the bottom 3 in Calgary.

I wouldn't want to be Edmonton though.

McDavid is going to cost you $14.6 million PER SEASON once is entry level contract expires. You aren't going to get him on a bridge deal or an 8 year deal at a reasonable cap hit of 8m or even 10m.

In case people haven't figured this out it's a guarantee McDavid will get 7 year 100 million offers from any conceivable team with the cap space to do it. It's a no brainer that you give up those FIVE 1st round picks without even thinking twice.

It's very conceivable that Draisatl gets 7.5m to 8.0m as an RFA with his inflated stats from playing with McDavid. Maroon similary to Draisatl is going to get at least 6m to 6.5m for inflated goal scoring with McDavid.

McDavid 14.6M
Draisatl 8.0M
Maroon 6.5M

Total $29.1M

You are not going to win Stanley cups when 40% of your salary cap is on one single line.

The oilers still need a legit #1D to emerge and they don't have it. You at best have a #2 in Larsson and a #3/#4 in Klefbom. Sekera is a solid #3D/#4D and Russell no matter you think is a #5D.

Edmonton is sort of in that same boat as Calgary. The difference is Edmonton has a clear #1C and a viable #1 goalie. They lack true high end #1D/#2D and I would argue have one of the weakest 2nd lines amongst any NHL team in the playoffs.

Eberle and Hopkins is a #2 line that is not going to win you a Stanley cup. You are living a pipe dream if you think otherwise.
Well you obviously didn't read the first post.

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04-21-2017, 01:58 AM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
Also this waiting for a goalie to develop is backwards thinking.

There is no difference between giving Gillies @23 or Parsons @20 an opportunity to be the guy when you have guys playing @18 or 19 years old.

Nobody knows if either could be a superstar if they arent afforded the opportunity.

Why target other team 22 and 23 year old goalies when we have our own that possibly are just as good.

People are afraid to give young goalies a shot out of fear of missing playoffs.

News flash finishing 7th or 8th losing in 4 straight in round one is counter productive.

You dont win the cup finishing 7th or 8th. Its happened 2 times in the past 35 years.
It doesn't always work like that. Sometimes giving guys a chance means that they aren't NHL goaltenders. Trust me, I'm a Kings fan.

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04-21-2017, 06:25 AM
  #146
madmike77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
Also this waiting for a goalie to develop is backwards thinking.

There is no difference between giving Gillies @23 or Parsons @20 an opportunity to be the guy when you have guys playing @18 or 19 years old.

Nobody knows if either could be a superstar if they arent afforded the opportunity.

Why target other team 22 and 23 year old goalies when we have our own that possibly are just as good.

People are afraid to give young goalies a shot out of fear of missing playoffs.

News flash finishing 7th or 8th losing in 4 straight in round one is counter productive.

You dont win the cup finishing 7th or 8th. Its happened 2 times in the past 35 years.
You have to at least let them play a bit in the AHL. Gillies is a bit behind where he should be because he missed an entire season due to surgery. If he has a decent AHL playoffs he might get a shot as the backup next year.

Either way these guys will get their shots in the next couple of years. If they play well enough, they'll get NHL time.

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04-21-2017, 07:57 AM
  #147
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They have no franchise player, until they get one I can't see them making any serious noise any time soon.

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04-21-2017, 08:53 AM
  #148
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They have no franchise player, until they get one I can't see them making any serious noise any time soon.
Benn and Ovechkin are the only two LW'ers who have more points than Johnny Gaudreau since he entered the league.

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04-21-2017, 08:56 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
Benn and Ovechkin are the only two LW'ers who have more points than Johnny Gaudreau since he entered the league.
There are very few franchise wingers out there IMO and Gaudreau is definitely not one of them.

Kessel was one of the top producing right wingers for a long time, he was hardly a franchise winger though.

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04-21-2017, 09:05 AM
  #150
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There are very few franchise wingers out there IMO and Gaudreau is definitely not one of them.

Kessel was one of the top producing right wingers for a long time, he was hardly a franchise winger though.
I think you're right, there aren't a ton of franchise wingers because a lot of wingers aren't play drivers, which is a necessary criteria. But Gaudreau certainly is a play driver, and he has a significant impact on the production of anyone he plays with. To me, you can build a team around those types of players.

Kane
Tarasenko
Benn
Gaudreau
Laine
Marner

These are all youngish guys that you could build around and have success. Calgary has made the playoffs in 2 of 3 years with Gaudreau running their offense, despite getting some of the worst goaltending in the league.

If Elliott is able to provide even average goaltending against Anaheim this isn't even a thread. That's not to say that the team doesn't have holes, but a player to build the franchise around is not one of them.

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