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Did anybody notice Ryan Getzlaf's season?

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Old
04-20-2017, 03:40 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by HansonBro View Post
15g 58a for 73 points in 74 games. Add on the +7.

With a guy like Perry "slumping" it's pretty impressive
Perry played 82 games and had 53pts, I mean that's not terrible either for a top 6 winger that is attached to him.

I don't find that impressive, it's good for a very good player, but impressive? I mean it's not like he was missing his top 6 wingers for large parts of the season and finishing top 3 or anything.

Getzlaf has always been a beast and will always be one and if 53pts is a slump from Perry, that's not bad at all either.

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04-20-2017, 03:59 PM
  #27
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I'm not even a Ducks fan, and I'm still frustrated that Perry can't play more like his old self while Getzlaf is still this good. If he can only pull it together one last time for these playoffs they'll wrap up the cup.

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Old
04-20-2017, 04:07 PM
  #28
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I've honestly never thought Getzlaf was anything special.

People sit there saying Sean Monahan isn't a #1C yet Getzlaf is and only once in his career has he hit 30 goals or more.

Don't care what you say 28 goals in the past two seasons is what you expect from your #2 and #3 center.

The Ducks core of forwards aren't going to win it all any time soon. Calgary and Edmonton are going to #1 and #2 in the Pacific as their young kids are going to continue to progress getting better each year.

I'm sorry to tell you but the Ducks' window to win championships is long gone.

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04-20-2017, 04:17 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
I've honestly never thought Getzlaf was anything special.

People sit there saying Sean Monahan isn't a #1C yet Getzlaf is and only once in his career has he hit 30 goals or more.

Don't care what you say 28 goals in the past two seasons is what you expect from your #2 and #3 center.

The Ducks core of forwards aren't going to win it all any time soon. Calgary and Edmonton are going to #1 and #2 in the Pacific as their young kids are going to continue to progress getting better each year.

I'm sorry to tell you but the Ducks' window to win championships is long gone.
Now, I'm a Calgary fan. Thanks for pumping mony.

But are you really insinuating that because getz is one of the best playmaking centers in the league and chooses not to shoot as much, that he is not a great #1?

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04-20-2017, 04:20 PM
  #30
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Getzlaf is a good reminder to not be too hasty about declaring a decline for a #1C. He had 76pts in 67gms in '10-'11, then relatively fell off of a cliff to 57pts in 82gms the next season, only to rebound to 49pts in 44gms in the lockout-shortened season. Last season, he had "only" 63pts in 77gms and then rebounded to 73pts in 74gms this season. I bring this up because it's really easy to be hard on Kopitar for the season that he just had--I've definitely been negative towards him, myself--but Getzlaf is a good reminder to give such #1C horses the chance to bounce back. After all, if you've held that role for nearly 10 years, you're a special player and aren't going to lose that overnight. Thornton, who's even older than both of them, is proof that that mold of center doesn't necessarily lose its effectiveness after 30 like many other roles do.


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Old
04-20-2017, 04:22 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
I've honestly never thought Getzlaf was anything special.

People sit there saying Sean Monahan isn't a #1C yet Getzlaf is and only once in his career has he hit 30 goals or more.

Don't care what you say 28 goals in the past two seasons is what you expect from your #2 and #3 center.

The Ducks core of forwards aren't going to win it all any time soon. Calgary and Edmonton are going to #1 and #2 in the Pacific as their young kids are going to continue to progress getting better each year.

I'm sorry to tell you but the Ducks' window to win championships is long gone.
What? Only 30 players and 11 centers scored more than 28 goals this season. Moreover, Getzlaf had tons of assists which can be just as important, while bringing much more physicality than your average star player.

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04-20-2017, 04:31 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
I've honestly never thought Getzlaf was anything special.

People sit there saying Sean Monahan isn't a #1C yet Getzlaf is and only once in his career has he hit 30 goals or more.

Don't care what you say 28 goals in the past two seasons is what you expect from your #2 and #3 center.

The Ducks core of forwards aren't going to win it all any time soon. Calgary and Edmonton are going to #1 and #2 in the Pacific as their young kids are going to continue to progress getting better each year.

I'm sorry to tell you but the Ducks' window to win championships is long gone.
Getzlaf is a great player.

I don't think he's as great as some people do, at their respective peaks I wouldn't put him above Bergeron, Kopitar, Toews or Thornton like some people would, but he's still an elite center and has been for awhile.

The one thing that always bugged me about him was how people would lose their minds over his size. Like, yes, he's big. And? Size and physicality are inputs, not outputs or ends in of themselves.

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04-20-2017, 04:40 PM
  #33
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He's been on the decline for 2-3 seasons now. Don't get me wrong he's still putting up good numbers for a guy who is on the decline.

I'm guessing Ducks' fans don't watch their team very closely especially in 3v3 and 4v4 situations.

2016-2017 Overtime Record

Calgary Flames 9W 2L
Edmonton Oilers 6W 4L
Anaheim Ducks 3W 10L

The ranks Anaheim 30th in Overtime. Why are they dead last? Their best players like Getzlaf have noticeably declined in their acceleration and skating speed. It was also very noticeable in the first round versus the flames.

I honestly believe these 4v4 and 3v3 situations clearly dictate teams with greater skill and speed than others.

The last point to mention Anaheim also leads the league in absolute garbage goals that are commonly described as "flukes". It's not shocking. When the bounces are going the ducks way they are a great team. It's pretty pathetic that this is a tactic Randy Carlyle actually preaches to his players.

You can actually look at the areas and types of shots being generated for the entire 2016-2017 season. You will notice the Ducks' players will often float shots from the blueline or the sideboards and will just hope to get a deflection or lucky bounce of a player's skates, stick, body, etc.

Yes he has also had some very skilled goals and assists this year but you are blind to not realize the strategy the Ducks embrace. The Ducks won't have any chance to win a championship if their #1C isn't capable of scoring goals at a rate that is double his current production.

Like I said 28 goals is not #1C production. He had 2 more goals than Calgary's #3C in Sam Bennett.

It's also tough to say exactly what is going on with Getzlaf and Perry. When they were in their prime they were amazing. Getzlaf is on the wrong side of 30 now and if he's your #1C in 2 or 3 years you will be lucky to be fighting for a wild card spot.

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Old
04-20-2017, 04:45 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MrJonas View Post
What? Only 30 players and 11 centers scored more than 28 goals this season. Moreover, Getzlaf had tons of assists which can be just as important, while bringing much more physicality than your average star player.
That's 28 goals in TWO seasons not this season.

He has scored 15 goals and 13 goals in the past 2 seasons respectively. That is good for dead last amongst #1C in the league.

#1C by definition is a player that will put up at least 20-25 goals. It's great he's still getting 60-70 points with the assists but if your #1C is putting up 13 goals in a season and playing nearly 20 minutes a game and on your 1st PP unit, I'm sorry......

You aren't going to win any championships with caliber of player.

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04-20-2017, 04:56 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by JaegerDice View Post
Getzlaf is a great player.

I don't think he's as great as some people do, at their respective peaks I wouldn't put him above Bergeron, Kopitar, Toews or Thornton like some people would, but he's still an elite center and has been for awhile.

The one thing that always bugged me about him was how people would lose their minds over his size. Like, yes, he's big. And? Size and physicality are inputs, not outputs or ends in of themselves.
He stopped being elite 3 years ago. The season he was 28 years old which is when most players begin to slow down.

The #1 knock on Getzlaf is that his acceleration and skating speed have taken a significant drop. There where 3 opportunities in the first round where had he had that same speed from 3 years ago he would have had 3 breakaways.

Even better example was the last game against Edmonton where he was completely outclassed by McDavid and Draisatl in OT.

They made Getzlaf look like an AHLer. You watch him play 3v3 in Overtime and it's crystal clear he can't compete with slow foot speed. I'm assuming that's why the ducks resort to a lot of dirty hooking and holding plays.

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04-20-2017, 04:57 PM
  #36
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I noticed late in the season, thing is he's always been underrated. In '14 yea he was second by a mile in points but he still had his best year yet you didn't hear a peep about it.

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04-20-2017, 05:01 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
That's 28 goals in TWO seasons not this season.
Fair point, thought you meant this season. However:

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#1C by definition is a player that will put up at least 20-25 goals.
I don't agree at all. A #1C (or #1 any position) is a player who is top 30 at most things required from that position. Getzlaf has never been a goal scorer but he's 2nd among centers in assists in the last two years, and brings a whole lot more not having to do with direct offense, like possession and physicality. It's ridiculous to say he's not a proper #1C.

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04-20-2017, 05:03 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
I've honestly never thought Getzlaf was anything special.
You've honestly not been paying any attention, then.

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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
People sit there saying Sean Monahan isn't a #1C yet Getzlaf is and only once in his career has he hit 30 goals or more.

Don't care what you say 28 goals in the past two seasons is what you expect from your #2 and #3 center.
Playmakers do not have value. Only the goals you score count, not the ones you set up. Got it.

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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
The Ducks core of forwards aren't going to win it all any time soon. Calgary and Edmonton are going to #1 and #2 in the Pacific as their young kids are going to continue to progress getting better each year.

I'm sorry to tell you but the Ducks' window to win championships is long gone.
Cool.

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He's been on the decline for 2-3 seasons now. Don't get me wrong he's still putting up good numbers for a guy who is on the decline.
He has not been on a decline. That's you making stuff up.

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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
I'm guessing Ducks' fans don't watch their team very closely especially in 3v3 and 4v4 situations.

2016-2017 Overtime Record

Calgary Flames 9W 2L
Edmonton Oilers 6W 4L
Anaheim Ducks 3W 10L

The ranks Anaheim 30th in Overtime. Why are they dead last? Their best players like Getzlaf have noticeably declined in their acceleration and skating speed. It was also very noticeable in the first round versus the flames.

I honestly believe these 4v4 and 3v3 situations clearly dictate teams with greater skill and speed than others.
That's both right and wrong. Yes, we suck in 3v3. Yes, Getzlaf's lines don't revolve around speed. Yes, at 3v3 that's a pretty big problem. No, Getzlaf hasn't declined noticeably in accelation and speed - that has never been his game, and he hasn't lost it to any noteworthy degree. Thankfully, hockey in general remains being played 5v5, where he's still an impact player. As he is at 5-4, and 4-5.

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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
The last point to mention Anaheim also leads the league in absolute garbage goals that are commonly described as "flukes".
Citation needed.

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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
You can actually look at the areas and types of shots being generated for the entire 2016-2017 season. You will notice the Ducks' players will often float shots from the blueline or the sideboards and will just hope to get a deflection or lucky bounce of a player's skates, stick, body, etc.
Creating traffic and going for deflections and rebounds isn't being lucky. It's also not something the Ducks do abnormally much compaired to the rest of the league. Without any actual evidence to back that up, that's a baseless claim.

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04-20-2017, 05:08 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
I've honestly never thought Getzlaf was anything special.

People sit there saying Sean Monahan isn't a #1C yet Getzlaf is and only once in his career has he hit 30 goals or more.

Don't care what you say 28 goals in the past two seasons is what you expect from your #2 and #3 center.

The Ducks core of forwards aren't going to win it all any time soon. Calgary and Edmonton are going to #1 and #2 in the Pacific as their young kids are going to continue to progress getting better each year.

I'm sorry to tell you but the Ducks' window to win championships is long gone.
Someone's ******** over something here. Getz isn't a goal scorer so judging him by goals scored is incredibly ignorant. He's an ELITE playmaker and will be for the next half decade

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04-20-2017, 05:22 PM
  #40
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Someone's ******** over something here. Getz isn't a goal scorer so judging him by goals scored is incredibly ignorant. He's an ELITE playmaker and will be for the next half decade
That's quite the projection. You think he's going to be an elite playmaker at 36? There aren't many...

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04-20-2017, 06:26 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
He stopped being elite 3 years ago. The season he was 28 years old which is when most players begin to slow down.

The #1 knock on Getzlaf is that his acceleration and skating speed have taken a significant drop. There where 3 opportunities in the first round where had he had that same speed from 3 years ago he would have had 3 breakaways.

Even better example was the last game against Edmonton where he was completely outclassed by McDavid and Draisatl in OT.

They made Getzlaf look like an AHLer. You watch him play 3v3 in Overtime and it's crystal clear he can't compete with slow foot speed. I'm assuming that's why the ducks resort to a lot of dirty hooking and holding plays.
Can you please explain to me how 3v3 play is indicative of how a player can compete in a sport that is predominately played at 5v5?

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04-20-2017, 06:45 PM
  #42
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I stopped reading when he said garbage goals are flukes. I wish I had stopped reading before that. One of the most basic, and successful strategies is to go hard to the net and clean up the garbage. Or float shots and go for tips. If you're calling that a fluke play, you simply don't understand the game. It's something that players practice from a young age. Judging by the rest of the post, if there is a more obvious sign of agenda, I have yet to see it.

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04-20-2017, 07:11 PM
  #43
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Is this bait? There's so much utterly illogical material in here; you'd think it'd be bait... Screw it, I'll bite.

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People sit there saying Sean Monahan isn't a #1C yet Getzlaf is and only once in his career has he hit 30 goals or more.

Don't care what you say 28 goals in the past two seasons is what you expect from your #2 and #3 center.
I'm assuming you're also not the biggest fan of guys like Nicklas Backstrom (1 career 30-goal season), Joe Thornton (2 30-goal seasons), or Henrik Sedin (none), right? But don't worry, those guys are worthless. Seanahan is where it's at. Screw those future HoFers. Can't score goals like the scrubs they are.

Quote:
The Ducks core of forwards aren't going to win it all any time soon. Calgary and Edmonton are going to #1 and #2 in the Pacific as their young kids are going to continue to progress getting better each year.

I'm sorry to tell you but the Ducks' window to win championships is long gone.
You mean a stagnating Calgary team that's continually failing to make that next step is going to be taking over the Pacific?

Our window to win championships is still open as long as Getzlaf and Kesler remain playing at a high level. I'm going to ignore the obvious bias you have against playmakers and I'll simply ask you why our window is closed.

Sure, it's not open as wide as it has been in years past, but it's still open.

Quote:
I'm guessing Ducks' fans don't watch their team very closely especially in 3v3 and 4v4 situations.

2016-2017 Overtime Record

Calgary Flames 9W 2L
Colorado Avalanche 7W 2L (missed one)
Edmonton Oilers 6W 4L
Anaheim Ducks 3W 10L

The ranks Anaheim 30th in Overtime. Why are they dead last? Their best players like Getzlaf have noticeably declined in their acceleration and skating speed. It was also very noticeable in the first round versus the flames.

I honestly believe these 4v4 and 3v3 situations clearly dictate teams with greater skill and speed than others.
It's a good thing we don't play 3v3 overtime in the playoffs when it actually matters, right? How is that sparkling OT record doing for you guys? Did well for the Kings. It's certainly helped the Blackhawks to that 1st round sweep of Nashville we all were expecting. Oh, and Columbus is also doing so well.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/s...shootout/2016/

Look at this page and try to identify any correlation between OT success and playoff success. Good luck; 7 of the top 12 (including #1 overall) in OTW missed the playoffs. The 5 playoff teams in that top 12 are either out (Calgary), up against the brink already (Chicago and Columbus), or tied. (Montreal and Washington) Washington, by the way, is struggling to put down a Toronto team they were supposed to flatten. How is that OT record of theirs helping that?

Getzlaf is not the best skater in the world. Never has been. But he's done just fine without being Connor McDavid-level in his skating.

Quote:
The last point to mention Anaheim also leads the league in absolute garbage goals that are commonly described as "flukes".
Would you mind directing me to the wonderful and totally legitimate website that you obviously got this stat on?

Quote:
It's not shocking. When the bounces are going the ducks way they are a great team. It's pretty pathetic that this is a tactic Randy Carlyle actually preaches to his players.

You can actually look at the areas and types of shots being generated for the entire 2016-2017 season. You will notice the Ducks' players will often float shots from the blueline or the sideboards and will just hope to get a deflection or lucky bounce of a player's skates, stick, body, etc.
Should I tell him that this is a legitimate hockey strategy that many other teams use? A strategy that you learn as soon as you start skating? Whose coach didn't tell them "Go to the net and good things will happen"?

Nah. Let's let him try on his own to figure out why "net-front presence" is such a big deal.

Quote:
Yes he has also had some very skilled goals and assists this year but you are blind to not realize the strategy the Ducks embrace. The Ducks won't have any chance to win a championship if their #1C isn't capable of scoring goals at a rate that is double his current production.

Like I said 28 goals is not #1C production. He had 2 more goals than Calgary's #3C in Sam Bennett.
Have you seriously not ever heard of a playmaker? Getzlaf doesn't have to score goals. His vision and passing are still currently among the best in the business.

Quote:
It's also tough to say exactly what is going on with Getzlaf and Perry. When they were in their prime they were amazing. Getzlaf is on the wrong side of 30 now and if he's your #1C in 2 or 3 years you will be lucky to be fighting for a wild card spot.
I like how you prop Calgary up as an upwardly mobile team (despite the fact that they've never made that next step) yet ignore the fact that the Ducks have a plethora of young talent on their own team. Rakell and Silfverberg are both below 27 years of age, as is our starting goaltender as well as 90% of our blue-line. Even if Getzlaf drops off, we've still got young guys that can step up to fill what'll be an increasing void as Getzlaf declines.

Also, how was Getzlaf amazing in his prime if he only scored 30 once?

Quote:
They made Getzlaf look like an AHLer. You watch him play 3v3 in Overtime and it's crystal clear he can't compete with slow foot speed. I'm assuming that's why the ducks resort to a lot of dirty hooking and holding plays.
Somebody please help me.....

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04-20-2017, 07:52 PM
  #44
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He is no where close to an elite playmaker at all. He's been fortunate to play with Perry, Selanne, Ryan, etc. The stats I see show only 39% of his assists the past 3 seasons are primary assists. He gets a lot of secondary assists as a result of rebounds and deflections. Not that there's nothing wrong with that but primary and secondary assists really should be in separate columns.

Do you Ducks' Fans not watch your team play?

It's most likely he tops out at 60 points next season. Anaheim won't re-sign Reaves and there is zero chance Rakell repeats this year's performance. Unless Perry magically comes back to life there isn't going to be any players scoring 30+ goals for him to piggy back secondary assists off of.

Again I pointed it out. There were 3 occasions during the first round where he had the opportunity to get behind the defence but Getzlaf did not have the foot speed to get past Giordano. It's not shocking that Getzlaf's speed is going to decline year over year. He's a big guy and you don't expect their skating to stay at a high level when they are on the wrong side of 30.

All I'm saying he's still a good player but there are easily 25 other centers I would take over him on my team.

The best part is Anaheim fan's thinking they actually outplayed Calgary. Had to have been the most even series for a 4-0 ever. Take the fluke goals out of the equation and the 2 blown calls and Calgary is up 3-1 or even 4-0.

And yes it is a fluke when a puck happens to deflect off a players stick, body, skates and travel 8+ feet into the net.

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04-20-2017, 07:57 PM
  #45
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Would you like me to post videos of Kessler holding sticks and bear hugging players on face offs.

Or better yet Kessler sitting on a puck intentionally to kill the clock. I'm guessing the GM's will add a new rule just for Kessler.

You don't just make this kind of stuff up when the entire league knows it.

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04-20-2017, 08:01 PM
  #46
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Getzlaf is DEAD LAST, that is 30th in goals scored amongst 1st line centers in the past 2 seasons. Not only is he 30th but he also has greater TOI than then 16 other 1st line centers that have score more goals in the past 2 years.

Going on what ducks fans are saying Victor Hedman is an ELITE playmaker too. I mean he had more assists than Getzlaf this year so he must be ELITE. No wait, Hedman also has a higher percentage of secondary assists as well.

Backstrom is a prime example of a high end playmaker as he has more primary assists than secondary assists.


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04-20-2017, 08:10 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
What are Anaheim fans going to say when the Oilers sweep them 4-0. Pure luck?
"Guess what, Fred. I had the worst dream last night..."

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Getzlaf is DEAD LAST, that is 30th in goals scored amongst 1st line centers in the past 2 seasons. Not only is he 30th but he also has greater TOI than then 16 other 1st line centers that have score more goals in the past 2 years.
That would be significant if Getzlaf were a goal scorer, and not a playmaker.

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Going on what ducks fans are saying Victor Hedman is an ELITE playmaker too. I mean he had more assists than Getzlaf this year so he must be ELITE. No wait, Hedman also has a higher percentage of secondary assists as well.
Here's a basic math lesson: 56 < 58

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Backstrom is a prime example of a high end playmaker as he has more primary assists than secondary assists.
O Kay?

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04-20-2017, 08:11 PM
  #48
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Would you like me to post videos of Kessler holding sticks and bear hugging players on face offs.

Or better yet Kessler sitting on a puck intentionally to kill the clock. I'm guessing the GM's will add a new rule just for Kessler.

You don't just make this kind of stuff up when the entire league knows it.
Pretty sure the league also knows how to spell Kesler's name.

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04-20-2017, 08:20 PM
  #49
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He's not a playmaker. The majority of his points are garbage secondary assists. The real playmakers in the NHL will have 60-70% of their assists as primary assists not secondary.

The majority of his assists are not making perfect passes.

Getzlaf has a rocket of a shot. For some reason he just doesn't score goals. Other players tend to score goals from rebounds, deflections, etc. That's where the bulk of assists have come from.

The one thing with Getzlaf is he has a very high drive and doesn't give up. That's what he brings to a team. His compete level is easily Top 5 amongst NHL centers.

I'm not saying he's a horrible center but there are 20-25 guys most GMs would take over him right now as their goto #1 guy.

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04-20-2017, 08:22 PM
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Sojourn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iguuar View Post
He's not a playmaker. The majority of his points are garbage secondary assists. The real playmakers in the NHL will have 60-70% of their assists as primary assists not secondary.

The majority of his assists are not making perfect passes.

Getzlaf has a rocket of a shot. For some reason he just doesn't score goals. Other players tend to score goals from rebounds, deflections, etc. That's where the bulk of assists have come from.

The one thing with Getzlaf is he has a very high drive and doesn't give up. That's what he brings to a team. His compete level is easily Top 5 amongst NHL centers.

I'm not saying he's a horrible center but there are 20-25 guys most GMs would take over him right now as their goto #1 guy.
Ryan Getzlaf isn't a playmaker?

Okay then. Moving on...

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