HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Calder Finalists: Laine, Matthews, Werenski

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-20-2017, 07:21 PM
  #51
TimeZone
Superstar
 
TimeZone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lost
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinlandPanther View Post
2 way center he's got a long way to go before he gets two way out next to his name.
What the hell?

TimeZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:22 PM
  #52
TimeZone
Superstar
 
TimeZone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lost
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narow View Post
In my opinion Laine has a case most definatly.

Some reasons why

-3 hattricks (youngest player ever)

-Higher production rate (hit ppg midseason)

-Got concussed came back for a 1.44 ppg rate over 22 games

-Didnt go more than 6 games without a goal all season

-has among the best +/- on a team that has been outscored (i dont put much weight on this but it is worth mentioning)

-Has Led all rookies in points and goals for most of the season (even more on a per game basis)

So those are a few reasons here are some factors

-Jets were heavily injured especially at the start if the season which forced jets to play the rookie on first like with Scheifele and sophomore Ehlers which quickly became one if the most dangerous lines in the NHL

-He heavily outperformed according to advabced stats (i take this as a indication of how good his shot actually is)

-He has not been sheltered all season

-The dude came from a diffwrent country and had to adapt to a new culture, ask his countryman Puljujärvi how hard that can be.

-He has shown tons of improvement as the season has gone on. (This one is important to me)

-Youngest guy here


So those are just a few i could come up with off the top of my head. Contrary to popular belief he also plays defence.

Anyways if he has a case or not is subjective, to me he definatly has and as i have said multiple times i would hate to be a voter.

Being a rookie on the first line vs being a center rookieman centering rookies is the biggest thing to Matthews advantage. Neither is easy but the rookie line is definatly more impressive to me.

Id vote for matthews but Laine most definatly has a case too
Plenty of good reasons there for why Laine should finish ahead of Werenski for second place, I agree. Great Season by all three.

TimeZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:23 PM
  #53
Dart Guy
Rookie User
 
Dart Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Beaver City
Country: Canada
Posts: 54
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
Laine.

He is a year younger and played fewer games than Matthews.
Prepare to eat crow.

Dart Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:25 PM
  #54
lidstromiscool
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 694
vCash: 500
Shame Laine missed time with the concussion, was his to win until then. Now its a tossup

lidstromiscool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:37 PM
  #55
Narow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lidstromiscool View Post
Shame Laine missed time with the concussion, was his to win until then. Now its a tossup
Actually in my opinion it was after the concusion he created a big separation. He had his chaces to make that gap bigger but didnt happend.. constant line juggling from the coach this season for sure didnt help.

But yeah probably without the concussion it would be closer.

40 goal rookie definatly deserves it tho. I would get pissed if he doesnt win it

Narow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:45 PM
  #56
Krazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,094
vCash: 500
I still don't really care about the calder. NHL writers voting for an award is a joke. Analysts, coaches GMs, players should vote. That being said.....

Matthews. Not close, and it hasn't been all season.

People call it a toss up and cite ppg etc... That is not an intelligent argument when you have a 2 way no.1 C on a rookie line.

Tkachuk, Marner, Laine, Aho, Brown, even Nylander were brought in on the wing of vet lines with scoring punch. Points could seperate them, as they are in relatively comparable situations. Matthews was not. He was relied on to be a No 1.C with rookies on his line. Despite this he was:

1.) Highest us born goal scorer ever.
2.) Second in the league in Goals (1st in 5 on5 and EV goals).
3.) Only player to get a shot in every Game.
4.) third in the league in takeaways
5.) Nhl all star.
6.) Set an original 6 team rookie record in goals and points.
7.) Most goals ever in a rookie debut.
8.) First 1st overall to go from last place to playoffs in 20 years.
9.) Only rookie to lead team in Goals and points.
10.) First rookie to score 40 goals in a season since OVY

This has to be the most dominant rookie season in at least a decade. While the stats back crosby/ovy, the team success and all round game put Matthews up there.....

I am glad the whole Laine debate has ended with Matthews dominating. I do find it pretty funny that this thread will have like no one in it compared to how it would have went if Laine were to win.

Krazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:49 PM
  #57
TBC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 210
vCash: 500
Matthews


Laine
Werenski

TBC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:49 PM
  #58
Krazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lidstromiscool View Post
Shame Laine missed time with the concussion, was his to win until then. Now its a tossup
Never was. 25 NHL coaches voted on the top rookies halfway through the season and it was

20-Matthews
4- Laine
1- Werenski.

Matthews has been the best rookie this year bar none.

Krazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 07:50 PM
  #59
3074326
Registered User
 
3074326's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Columbus
Country: United States
Posts: 4,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBC View Post
Matthews


Laine
Werenski
I think implying that it's not close is a little much. Obviously you are entitled to your opinion.

3074326 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:00 PM
  #60
Narow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
Never was. 25 NHL coaches voted on the top rookies halfway through the season and it was

20-Matthews
4- Laine
1- Werenski.

Matthews has been the best rookie this year bar none.
Should be mentioned poll was taken while Laine was concussed.

So this could definatly affect results. But i dont quite remember if it was the calder or better player they voted on. If its the former then it definatly affects as they didnt even know if Laine would come back and even less how he perform.

Had you had that poll beggining of march (just before laine got cold and Matthews wasnt really producing) it would be different.

Just something to keep in mind with that poll

Narow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:03 PM
  #61
jetsforever
Registered User
 
jetsforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,275
vCash: 500
I think Matthews should probably win, but it's closer than many here think
Crazy that Marner isn't even in the top 3

[mod]


Last edited by spiny norman: 04-20-2017 at 08:08 PM. Reason: not needed
jetsforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:03 PM
  #62
Daisy Jane
trust the vision
 
Daisy Jane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 53,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
This one is as clear cut as the Art Ross Trophy. What a fun season for us Leaf fans, playoffs and a major trophy for Matthews. It's the first time since Gilmour won a Selke in the 90s.
Alex Mogliny is hurt you forgot him.

Daisy Jane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:11 PM
  #63
rubous
Registered User
 
rubous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinlandPanther View Post
2 way center he's got a long way to go before he gets two way out next to his name.
lol you probably only watch highlights, you cant be serious

rubous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:19 PM
  #64
Krazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narow View Post
Should be mentioned poll was taken while Laine was concussed.

So this could definatly affect results. But i dont quite remember if it was the calder or better player they voted on. If its the former then it definatly affects as they didnt even know if Laine would come back and even less how he perform.

Had you had that poll beggining of march (just before laine got cold and Matthews wasnt really producing) it would be different.

Just something to keep in mind with that poll
The poll was the best rookie to that point in the season. No I don't think it would have been different. Nhl coaches can see the difference. They don't just look at stat lines. What matthews had done throughout the season was more impressive. Marner was ahead at some points in the season too.

Matthews has been the most proficient rookie this year.

When the poll was taken they all had played 42 games.

Krazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:28 PM
  #65
Narow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
The poll was the best rookie to that point in the season. No I don't think it would have been different. Nhl coaches can see the difference. They don't just look at stat lines. What matthews had done throughout the season was more impressive. Marner was ahead at some points in the season too.

Matthews has been the most proficient rookie this year.

When the poll was taken they all had played 42 games.
Well still...at the time of the poll both marner and matty surpassed Laine by a few points (remember he matthews and marner were all tied when it happened).

Kinda hard not picking Matthews in that situation. It was also before Laines third hattie ^^

But yeah it was extremely lopsided so would probably not be a differences even if it would be at a point where laine gad 10 points lead.

Narow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:37 PM
  #66
Krazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narow View Post
Well still...at the time of the poll both marner and matty surpassed Laine by a few points (remember he matthews and marner were all t ownied when it happened).

Kinda hard not picking Matthews in that situation. It was also before Laines third hattie ^^

But yeah it was extremely lopsided so would probably not be a differences even if it would be at a point where laine gad 10 points lead.
see there. You have answered your own question.
Marner and Matthews alternated points for the first half of the season.

Guess how many votes marner got. Zero. If the points were all that mattered, marner should have gotten at least a few votes.
He didn't because Matthews was a dominant no 1 C who went head to head with star players like Eichel, Malkin, Getzlaf, Zetterberg and won more than he lost. Even when marner and laine were ahead by a few points here and there, Matthews was better. Coaches go by what they see, not stat lines.....

Krazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:38 PM
  #67
pcruz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Vaughan
Country: Portugal
Posts: 1,710
vCash: 500
Honestly who cares?
How many Calder trophies does Crosby have?
How many Calder trophies does Raycroft have?

This one is Matthews' to lose and I'd be flabbergasted if he doesn't win, but this is not something to gloat over other fanbases.

pcruz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:42 PM
  #68
Kelly
It was 4-1.
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 9,391
vCash: 137
Send a message via ICQ to Kelly
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
Honestly who cares?
How many Calder trophies does Crosby have?
How many Calder trophies does Raycroft have?

This one is Matthews' to lose and I'd be flabbergasted if he doesn't win, but this is not something to gloat over other fanbases.
Winning a trophy like the Calder is something they should absolutely be proud about.

Players who HAVE won the Calder:
Malkin
Ovechkin
Kane
Alfredsson
Bure
Bourque
Bossy
Forsberg
Selanne
Lemieux
Brodeur
Orr

etcetc

Don't try to diminish it, it's a great achievement for whomever wins it. (Hopefully Mats )

Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:45 PM
  #69
Krazy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narow View Post
Well still...at the time of the poll both marner and matty surpassed Laine by a few points (remember he matthews and marner were all tied when it happened).

Kinda hard not picking Matthews in that situation. It was also before Laines third hattie ^^

But yeah it was extremely lopsided so would probably not be a differences even if it would be at a point where laine gad 10 points lead.
Also, as you are a fair and reasonable Laine fan, I think I should say that no one really cares about all the age related records that the finnish 5 bring up.

The youngest player to have 3 hat-tricks isn't anything other than a foot note in a record book.

Krazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:49 PM
  #70
Jetsetter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ropesman View Post
Laine going to sleep for the last few weeks of the season when he was moved off of the
Scheifele line is what sunk him. He had it lined up for the taking and for a long stretch of the season i thought he would run away with it.

Matthews and Laine are on equal footing when it comes to goal scoring and point producing this season, give a slight edge to Laine due to his points per game. Where the clear difference comes in is all the other areas of the game. Matthews is a tier above him when it comes to play in his own zone, he plays the more demanding position, and he also played the entire season with rookies on either side of him, one being the offensively challenged Hyman.

Amazing season for rookies this year, it will most likely be referred to as the point where the next wave of top tier talent was ushered in.
Laine played hurt the last 15 games of the season. That's why he's not playing in the Worlds. Both very good players.

Jetsetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:50 PM
  #71
Jets1975
Registered User
 
Jets1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 332
vCash: 500
Matthews deserves the Calder. Just a great rookie class this year.

Jets1975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:55 PM
  #72
Pi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,214
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
Winning a trophy like the Calder is something they should absolutely be proud about.

Players who HAVE won the Calder:
Malkin
Ovechkin
Kane
Alfredsson
Bure
Bourque
Bossy
Forsberg
Selanne
Lemieux
Brodeur
Orr

etcetc

Don't try to diminish it, it's a great achievement for whomever wins it. (Hopefully Mats )
Yeah, Matthews had all the pressure in the world. He's going to the biggest hockey market in the world who hadn't picked first in over three decades and he knew he was going to be the face of the team whether they tell him that or not. Winning the Calder with that much pressure on him just shows how good Matthews handled it on and off the ice.

To come out and score 40 goals in your rookie year isn't something that happens often. The Leafs have a forty goal #1C , it still feels so unbelievable.

Pi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:55 PM
  #73
Toe Pick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 124
vCash: 500
CBJ fan here who also thinks Mathews is a lock. Proud of the nom for our boy Werenski who I think is already the most gifted player to ever wear our jersey.

Gut punch to see Mathews and Laine have such great years. One damn pick away from one of those two studs

Toe Pick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:55 PM
  #74
Narow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
see there. You have answered your own question.
Marner and Matthews alternated points for the first half of the season.

Guess how many votes marner got. Zero. If the points were all that mattered, marner should have gotten at least a few votes.
He didn't because Matthews was a dominant no 1 C who went head to head with star players like Eichel, Malkin, Getzlaf, Zetterberg and won more than he lost. Even when marner and laine were ahead by a few points here and there, Matthews was better. Coaches go by what they see, not stat lines.....
Yeah very true. Marner actually only led once or twice i believe. He never challenged for goals tho :/

But yeah no question about the better player as of right now. Laines strengths tho are really incredible allowing him to be to competing in this.

That shot alone is such a game breaker. And he is actually pretty good in most areas too. Just not when compared to matty ^^ i still want to see them on the same line as i think they would compliment eachother so well

Narow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-20-2017, 08:58 PM
  #75
Jugitsu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Country: Finland
Posts: 68
vCash: 500
Matthews and really not even that close of a competition.

Had Laine scored somewhere around 15 more points and won the Rocket Richard, then it would be another story.

Matthews is an absolute beast and I never expected him to perform the way he did.

Same can be said about Laine and Werenski too.

If the Calder was awarded to the rookie who's most entertaining to watch, it would be a 2-man race: Marner and Nylander.

Jugitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.