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Crosby is -2, while Malkin is +7 in Pens vs Jackets Series

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Old
04-20-2017, 11:27 PM
  #1
User9992
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Crosby is -2, while Malkin is +7 in Pens vs Jackets Series

Crosby is -2, while Malkin is +7 in Pens vs Jackets Series


Sidney Crosby while scoring 7 Pts in 5 games against Columbus Blue Jackets ended Series having -2 in +/- ...

Evgeny Malkin while scoring 11 Pts in 5 games against Columbus Blue Jackets ended Series having +7 in +/-.

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Old
04-20-2017, 11:35 PM
  #2
TIGERCOOL
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And? Crosby is the guy teams gameplan the hardest. He's the guy with the toughest matchups. He's the guy elevating the two youngsters. The better he plays, the better Geno's numbers. That's the insanity of the pens. You spend all your strategic resources and energy focusing on the generational 1C and the nearly generational 2C is standing there ready to steamroll whatever is left over. Same reason Kessel feasted so hard in last year's playoffs

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Old
04-20-2017, 11:37 PM
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If Sid gets 7 points per every 5 games this postseason and is still outperformed by Malkin, I'm fine with it..... that third Cup will work.

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04-20-2017, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 3074326 View Post
If Sid gets 7 points per every 5 games this postseason and is still outperformed by Malkin, I'm fine with it..... that third Cup will work.
He probably needs to cut out the bit where his line give up a bunch of cheap points though.

Don't think either player is at peak form either yet mind though.

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Old
04-20-2017, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by User9992 View Post
Crosby is -2, while Malkin is +7 in Pens vs Jackets Series


Sidney Crosby while scoring 7 Pts in 5 games against Columbus Blue Jackets ended Series having -2 in +/- ...

Evgeny Malkin while scoring 11 Pts in 5 games against Columbus Blue Jackets ended Series having +7 in +/-.
One thing I would like to know is... Have you watched the series at all?

Malkin has been racking up the secondary assists like theres no tomorrow. Crosby actually has more primary points (6) than Malkin (4).

Crosby Primary PPG: 1.2

Malkin Primary PPG: 0.8

Malkin has 4 primary points and 7(!) secondary assists this series. He has been great but he hasn't outshined Crosby at all.

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04-20-2017, 11:58 PM
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Novak Djokovic
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Malkin's collected a lot more points while not looking more impressive than Crosby, when you've watched them play. It really speaks to how talented Malkin is... 11 points in 5 games yet he's played pretty average (and in Game 2, terrible) for decent stretches.

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04-21-2017, 12:01 AM
  #7
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Sid was having to do almost the entirety of his lines back checking over the last couple games. One of the reasons Hornquist was moved to his line to start the third period and why Sheary was moved off it.

That being said, his line was on the ice for 8 goals against outta what 11? in the entire series. That's ROUGH.

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04-21-2017, 12:05 AM
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It's crazy that people around here don't understand the concept of drawing matchups. It's such an easy thing to understand that you would almost have to be trying to dismiss them on purpose to make a flame bait post. Hmmmmmmm...

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Old
04-21-2017, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
It's crazy that people around here don't understand the concept of drawing matchups. It's such an easy thing to understand that you would almost have to be trying to dismiss them on purpose to make a flame bait post. Hmmmmmmm...

Maybe you should go check the faceoff statistics before you talk about matchups.

Sid's primary opposition in games 1-3 was Dubinsky. Malkin's was Karlsson. Tortorella flipped those lines for game 4 and 5 and from being non-factors offensively, Karlsson's line was suddenly rather dominant.

Effectively Sid and Geno played the same opposition in this series, just at different times, and while Sullivan in the first games went to Sid's line to close out games while staying away from Malkin's, now he is trusting Malkin's defensively as well.

I think Sid's line will be better defensively with Hornqvist over Sheary though, something I advocated a long, long time ago (that Horny was put back there).

The +7 and -2 thing is certainly also about sample sizes and coincidence, but there cannot be two opinions that Malkin has played significantly better D in the first round than Sid.

And @Lustaf, about having to carry additional water defensively..... lets not do that when Geno is playing with Phil Kessel, OK?

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04-21-2017, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TIGERCOOL View Post
And? Crosby is the guy teams gameplan the hardest. He's the guy with the toughest matchups. He's the guy elevating the two youngsters. The better he plays, the better Geno's numbers. That's the insanity of the pens. You spend all your strategic resources and energy focusing on the generational 1C and the nearly generational 2C is standing there ready to steamroll whatever is left over. Same reason Kessel feasted so hard in last year's playoffs
Be honest, it wasn't about getting the toughest matchups. Torts switched matchups between games 3 and 4 and his line let in 3 both nights. He just wasn't playing well, looked a little unfocused, even in game 6 until the third period. Players have lulls but they pull out of them, is it really necessary to make up a bunch of excuses for when he just doesn't play well. He fixed it when he needed to, that's all that matters.

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04-21-2017, 01:10 AM
  #11
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and???

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04-21-2017, 01:14 AM
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why do people bring up +/- like it matters?

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04-21-2017, 01:17 AM
  #13
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And plusminus is a meaningless stat.

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04-21-2017, 01:18 AM
  #14
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I'd talk about how great Malkin is alongside two playoff heroes Rust and Kessel. Malkin as the top scorer in the playoffs, even by a lot, shouldn't surprise many. Sid had a pretty good series as did Guentzel, but they gave up a lot of goals with turnovers.

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04-21-2017, 02:34 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Love View Post
One thing I would like to know is... Have you watched the series at all?

Malkin has been racking up the secondary assists like theres no tomorrow. Crosby actually has more primary points (6) than Malkin (4).

Crosby Primary PPG: 1.2

Malkin Primary PPG: 0.8

Malkin has 4 primary points and 7(!) secondary assists this series. He has been great but he hasn't outshined Crosby at all.
That isn't luck. He's been all over the puck. There's no way he goes cold points wise if he keeps playing like he is now.

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04-21-2017, 03:09 AM
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OGBobbyFarnham
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Turns out Sheary-Sid-Guentzel is not a very good playoff line.
Just took some time to figure that out.
Sullivan finally made the proper Guentzel-Sid-Hornqvist line to start the 3rd period of game 5.

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04-21-2017, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love View Post
One thing I would like to know is... Have you watched the series at all?

Malkin has been racking up the secondary assists like theres no tomorrow. Crosby actually has more primary points (6) than Malkin (4).

Crosby Primary PPG: 1.2

Malkin Primary PPG: 0.8

Malkin has 4 primary points and 7(!) secondary assists this series. He has been great but he hasn't outshined Crosby at all.
Pens fan here. I've watched every minute of the series and yes, Malkin has outperformed Crosby by a fair bit. He's been quite good away from the puck as well, whereas Sid has struggled there the past couple games.

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04-21-2017, 06:56 AM
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The crazy thing is the Jackets started to focus on Malkin's line and all Malkin did was elevate himself even more and the Jackets had no answer for that, Crosby had a bit of a liability on his line in Sheary with his lack of 2-way play in this series and he needed to be taken off that line for Hornqvist, it finally happened and Sid's line finally played better. But people forget, Guentzel has 6pts and Crosby has 8pts, they combined for 14pts (15 with Sheary) and Geno's line combined for 23 (11 + 8 + 4).

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Old
04-21-2017, 06:58 AM
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Crosby is a better player.

5 games does not change my mind

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04-21-2017, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
The crazy thing is the Jackets started to focus on Malkin's line and all Malkin did was elevate himself even more and the Jackets had no answer for that, Crosby had a bit of a liability on his line in Sheary with his lack of 2-way play in this series and he needed to be taken off that line for Hornqvist, it finally happened and Sid's line finally played better. But people forget, Guentzel has 6pts and Crosby has 8pts, they combined for 14pts (15 with Sheary) and Geno's line combined for 23 (11 + 8 + 4).
Which again proves that the usual "When Geno scores more points than Sid, it's because he faces 2nd liners" is just a bull****e argument, especially considering Geno has proved during an entire season that his stats were even better when playing at 1st line and so always facing teams's top lines than when playing at 2nd line.

Coming back to the subject of this thread, while i think Sid and his line has not been at his best in this serie, this +/- stat is blown out of proportion and very misleading in many ways.

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04-21-2017, 07:14 AM
  #21
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And @Lustaf, about having to carry additional water defensively..... lets not do that when Geno is playing with Phil Kessel, OK?
Geno still has Rust to help out and he's miles ahead of Kessel, Guentzel, and Sheary in terms of defense.

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04-21-2017, 07:21 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by OGBobbyFarnham View Post
Turns out Sheary-Sid-Guentzel is not a very good playoff line.
Just took some time to figure that out.
Sullivan finally made the proper Guentzel-Sid-Hornqvist line to start the 3rd period of game 5.
Yeah, After Game 3 Columbus started slamming Guentzel and Sheary every time they got along the boards. Sid didn't seem to want to play high forward either.. so it resulted in lots of odd man breaks against.

That line really isn't too balanced for the playoffs. Fun in the regular season though.

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Old
04-21-2017, 07:22 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by User9992 View Post
Crosby is -2, while Malkin is +7 in Pens vs Jackets Series


Sidney Crosby while scoring 7 Pts in 5 games against Columbus Blue Jackets ended Series having -2 in +/- ...

Evgeny Malkin while scoring 11 Pts in 5 games against Columbus Blue Jackets ended Series having +7 in +/-.
Hmm

Wonder if the Leafs will be able to trade Bozak for Crosby this offseason

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04-21-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TIGERCOOL View Post
And? Crosby is the guy teams gameplan the hardest. He's the guy with the toughest matchups. He's the guy elevating the two youngsters. The better he plays, the better Geno's numbers. That's the insanity of the pens. You spend all your strategic resources and energy focusing on the generational 1C and the nearly generational 2C is standing there ready to steamroll whatever is left over. Same reason Kessel feasted so hard in last year's playoffs
Wrong! They put Dubinsky on Malkin for game 4 and 5 because that line was a bigger threat to CBJ. What happened? Malkin elevated his game further and had his best game in the series in game 5. What happened to Crosby? He got dominated at times by the Karlsson line.

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04-21-2017, 08:13 AM
  #25
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I only judge players based on +/- and Crosby is awful.

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