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Ottawa - Tampa Proposal

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Old
02-11-2006, 12:40 AM
  #1
mattlef
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Ottawa - Tampa Proposal

To Ottawa: Brad Richards, C ($3.4million/year)

To Tampa: Alexei Kaigorodov, C (unsigned)
Brandon Bochenski, LW ($600,000/year)
Brian Pothier, D ($532,000/year)
2nd and a 4th in 06
2nd in 07


Alright, I know this is VERY!! unlikely, but possible. I heard that ottawa was in the running, as Tampa is, despite media attention, to move richards before the deadline, as they will not be able to afford him next year, and are not willing to lose him to free agency for nothing.

I was thinking, with Havlats salary not hitting the cap over the past little while due to his injury, and the fact that ottawa desperatly needs a Center who can share #1 duty with Spezza, as in take preasure off Spezza to be the #1 guy, as well as add leadership and Expereience, I think this deal could be made. On the Tampa side, they get 3 young talented players, one who could replace richards production next year, the other who is a hit or miss player, with a huge offensive upside, and Pothier is a third pairing defenceman in the NHL, with the potential to be top 4.

thoughts?

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Old
02-11-2006, 12:59 AM
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Seph
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Richards is an impending RFA, not UFA. Even in the event that Tampa can't afford him, they'll still be able to trade his rights and it'll return a lot more than that. You may want to just delete this now, as I can guarantee it won't be warmly received.

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Old
02-11-2006, 01:15 AM
  #3
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Thanks, but no thanks.

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Old
02-11-2006, 01:24 AM
  #4
Evil Sather
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Just in general, it's nearly UNHEARD of for a quantity for quality trade when the quality guy is in his mid 20s.

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Old
02-11-2006, 01:30 AM
  #5
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sadly this is the best offer for Richards I've seen proposed on these boards and its still off. Kaigo is gonna be a good 2nd line center though

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Old
02-11-2006, 01:33 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattlef
To Ottawa: Brad Richards, C ($3.4million/year)

To Tampa: Alexei Kaigorodov, C (unsigned)
Brandon Bochenski, LW ($600,000/year)
Brian Pothier, D ($532,000/year)
2nd and a 4th in 06
2nd in 07


Quote:
Alright, I know this is VERY!! unlikely, but possible. I heard that ottawa was in the running, as Tampa is, despite media attention, to move richards before the deadline, as they will not be able to afford him next year, and are not willing to lose him to free agency for nothing.
Possible? In what EHM or NHL06?...certainly not in the real world. The Lightning will not lose him in free agency for nothing, he's an RFA. Even if a team signs him, they'll have to give up draft picks...certainly a better trade than the one posted.

Quote:
I think this deal could be made. On the Tampa side, they get 3 young talented players, one who could replace richards production next year, the other who is a hit or miss player, with a huge offensive upside, and Pothier is a third pairing defenceman in the NHL, with the potential to be top 4.
This deal could be made if Jay Feaster suffers brain damage. None of the players could replace Richards production. A hit or miss prospect as one of the main components in a deal for Brad Rchards is not going to work, the Lightning will want proven NHLers. Pothier is a whipping boy in Ottawa....no surprise you want him included in the deal.

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thoughts?
Don't mean to be a jerk, but come on now. If the Lightning had to move Richards, the Sens would have to make a much better offer than that. Especially with the move being in-conference and a possible playoff matchup in the future. The Lightning are trying to repeat, not penny pinch and give a conference foe a player who could come back to hurt them in the playoffs without making the other team severly overpay. At least try to make the deal fair so you don't come off as a major Sens homer.

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Old
02-11-2006, 01:51 AM
  #7
SammyTheBull
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Bad deal for Tampa and i'd rather have Havlat on my team in the new game for $2.6 mil.

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Old
02-11-2006, 02:01 AM
  #8
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if tampa gives up richards because of the money they gave to the one year wonder, well then they deserve what will inevitably happen to the franchise.

giving up your heart and soul is bad, bad, bad.

feaster isn't that stupid though. realistically, i expect the 31 year old to be traded before the 26 year old.

if i was tampa right now, i'd try to dump st.louis's contract to the habs for theodore, and if theodore doesn't work out, let him leave as an UFA after the season.

moving richards is just stupid, imo. he deserves the money st.louis is signed for.

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Old
02-11-2006, 02:23 AM
  #9
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Valuewise the deal isn't that bad. As some have mentioned it needs a bit more quality and a bit less quantity, but not much. Pothier is UFA so he is worthless as far as this deal is concerned, and the draft picks are definately quantity over quality.

Kaigorodov is definately the starting point since there isn't really a spot for him if we acquire Richards. So, I'd suggest something more along the lines of:

Kaigorodov + Bochenski + 1st Rd.
--or--
Kaigorodov + Lee

That said I don't think Tampa will be trading Richards, and if they do it definately won't be during this season considering they're gonna want to be able to compete in the playoffs. Personally, I'd trade St.Louis for a 9th round pick and sign Richards before I thought about trading Richards.

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Old
02-11-2006, 08:00 AM
  #10
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Tampa's BEST option if they CAN'T sign Richards... is to do this... since he is RFA... (if I am not mistaken)

They offer him the lowest they can... (he refuses and holds out)

If someone decides to sign him as a RFA that team is required to give up between 4 and 6 1st round picks for a $6+ Million player... That is honestly the best option in the case that he can't be signed... but to be honest, with the cap going up... We only need like ~$3 Million freed up to make it work...

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Old
02-11-2006, 01:09 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattlef
I heard that ottawa was in the running, as Tampa is, despite media attention, to move richards before the deadline, as they will not be able to afford him next year, and are not willing to lose him to free agency for nothing.
Where'd you hear this from anyway? Hilarious that you think Tampa can't afford him but Ottawa can, they should worry about re-signing their own players first.

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Old
02-11-2006, 01:23 PM
  #12
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What is it with the Lightning's centers? First people wanted Lecavalier, now Richards. Can we please nip this in the bud and move on to the proposals for Marty Cibak?

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Old
02-11-2006, 01:45 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
Hilarious that you think Tampa can't afford him but Ottawa can, they should worry about re-signing their own players first.
Exactly. Ottawa may have some problems re-signing their own players (Chara, Redden, Havlat, Spezza need new deals/raises) yet they could go out and get a Brad Richards. The poster says Tampa could lose him for nothing, but if Ottawa were to acquire him in whatever fantasy world this would happen...they would likely lose him for nothing and all the players/picks they traded. But come on sotnos, we're using logic here...that doesn't exist in these kind of proposals.

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Old
02-11-2006, 01:57 PM
  #14
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattlef
To Ottawa: Brad Richards, C ($3.4million/year)

To Tampa: Alexei Kaigorodov, C (unsigned)
Brandon Bochenski, LW ($600,000/year)
Brian Pothier, D ($532,000/year)
2nd and a 4th in 06
2nd in 07


Alright, I know this is VERY!! unlikely, but possible. I heard that ottawa was in the running, as Tampa is, despite media attention, to move richards before the deadline, as they will not be able to afford him next year, and are not willing to lose him to free agency for nothing.

I was thinking, with Havlats salary not hitting the cap over the past little while due to his injury, and the fact that ottawa desperatly needs a Center who can share #1 duty with Spezza, as in take preasure off Spezza to be the #1 guy, as well as add leadership and Expereience, I think this deal could be made. On the Tampa side, they get 3 young talented players, one who could replace richards production next year, the other who is a hit or miss player, with a huge offensive upside, and Pothier is a third pairing defenceman in the NHL, with the potential to be top 4.

thoughts?
- Too much quantity, not enough quality.
- Richards $3.4M salary is irrelevant right now. His $5-7M deal starting next year is of great concern however and Ottawa can't afford it.
- Havlat's salary is on the cap. His replacement's salary has not. Even if Havlat were out for the entire season, Richards could not be his replacement for cap purposes because he makes more than Havlat. Read the CBA FAQ on the NHL wedbsite for clarification. Injured players are not a spending bonus.
- Kaigorodov will never match Richards production, Bochenski is closer to being a FT NHL player than you make him sound and Pothier does not have the potential to be a top 4 D-man (he may be our oldest D-man right now).

Richards is among the top players in the league and this is a package in which Bochenski is the best asset. How would you feel if TB fans started posting offers for Havlat centered around Artyukhin?

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Old
02-11-2006, 02:29 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary
- Too much quantity, not enough quality.
- Richards $3.4M salary is irrelevant right now. His $5-7M deal starting next year is of great concern however and Ottawa can't afford it.
- Havlat's salary is on the cap. His replacement's salary has not. Even if Havlat were out for the entire season, Richards could not be his replacement for cap purposes because he makes more than Havlat. Read the CBA FAQ on the NHL wedbsite for clarification. Injured players are not a spending bonus.
- Kaigorodov will never match Richards production, Bochenski is closer to being a FT NHL player than you make him sound and Pothier does not have the potential to be a top 4 D-man (he may be our oldest D-man right now).

Richards is among the top players in the league and this is a package in which Bochenski is the best asset. How would you feel if TB fans started posting offers for Havlat centered around Artyukhin?
Richards as stated will be making 5 or 6 million. I would not even offerthe proposed package because the Sens can't afford Richards but the package is a solid one from Ottawa.
Bochenski is a good playe capable of putting up 30 goals and 60+ points a season. He is making a rookie contract so 900,000 dollars a season for next season.
Kaigorodov will come over to the NHL with a rookie contract and should post good numbers 20-25 goals 40-50 assists 60-75 points in his rookie season which isn't bad.
Pothier is a decent D-man who has 18 points and is +24 this season. He is only 28 years old and makes 532,000 dollars a season. Then you had the picks into the deal and thats pretty sweet.

T-Bay gets two top 6 forwards and a decent D-man for 2.3 million aND T-Bay also gets picks. Now if T-Bay was going to offer the same type of package for Havlat and Havlat was on the verge of asking for 5+ million dollars a season I take the package in a heartbeat, it makes sense in a cap world.

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Old
02-11-2006, 03:20 PM
  #16
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Would changing one of those 2nd rounders to a 1st make a difference?

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Old
02-11-2006, 03:41 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86
Kaigorodov will come over to the NHL with a rookie contract and should post good numbers 20-25 goals 40-50 assists 60-75 points in his rookie season which isn't bad.
I still don't understand all the fuss about this guy, let alone these projections of his production that are based on what exactly?

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02-11-2006, 03:51 PM
  #18
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If I'm Tampa, I'm asking for Havlat and a 1st, minimum. Richards is the center that would put Ottawa over the top.

I don't think Tampa is interested in prospects and picks at this point. You gotta give to get, and for Richards, this is definently no exception.

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02-11-2006, 03:58 PM
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Tampa is still not interested in moving Richards.

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02-11-2006, 03:58 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenSk9tSen
Would changing one of those 2nd rounders to a 1st make a difference?
You're kidding, right?

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Old
02-11-2006, 04:03 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_elbows
I still don't understand all the fuss about this guy, let alone these projections of his production that are based on what exactly?
The fact the he dominated the RSL last season when it was stacked with NHL talent. He finished the season 2nd in league scoring. The only reason he does not have impressive numbers this season is because he has been put on the second line on his team due to the fact Malkin plays as the number 1 center.

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Old
02-11-2006, 04:34 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86
Bochenski is a good playe capable of putting up 30 goals and 60+ points a season. He is making a rookie contract so 900,000 dollars a season for next season.
He has not shown to be capable of putting up 30 goals and 60+ points. If he was, Ottawa would not have sent him down. He has the potential to reach that, doesn't mean he's capable.

Quote:
Kaigorodov will come over to the NHL with a rookie contract and should post good numbers 20-25 goals 40-50 assists 60-75 points in his rookie season which isn't bad.
That's extremely optimistic. Considering the 4th leading rookie in this years class isn't even on pace for 60 points, I find it hard to imagine that kid (not even a top 50 prospect) is going to walk in and produce numbers like that his rookie season. Seems like you're throwing out numbers to make this deal seem even remotely interesting to the Lightning.

Quote:
Pothier is a decent D-man who has 18 points and is +24 this season. He is only 28 years old and makes 532,000 dollars a season. Then you had the picks into the deal and thats pretty sweet.
I've seen Pothier consistantly ripped on the Ottawa board and they want Muckler to acquire a 5th/6th defenseman so he can be in the pressbox. He's 28, isn't going to improve at this point in his career. Nothing more than a 6th defenseman and would have no value to the Lightning and might not get any playing time for the team. Draft picks are pretty sweet to Rick Dudley in his attempts to stay in rebuilding mode forever, it doesn't mean jack to the Lightning who want to repeat and remain a contender. It's not like they are 1st rounders and are coming from Ottawa meaning they would be late in the 2nd round.

Quote:
T-Bay gets two top 6 forwards and a decent D-man for 2.3 million aND T-Bay also gets picks. Now if T-Bay was going to offer the same type of package for Havlat and Havlat was on the verge of asking for 5+ million dollars a season I take the package in a heartbeat, it makes sense in a cap world.
Two prospects who have top 6 potential and a 6th defenseman and late 2nd round picks for a 1st line center entering the prime of his career. If the roles were reversed, would you accept a deal like this for Alfreddson at the trade deadline? I doubt you would. It makes 0 sense for a team trying to win a cup. The Lightning are looking to make improvements at the deadline, not trade one of their best players to give the cup on a silver platter to a conference foe.

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Old
02-11-2006, 05:08 PM
  #23
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Who would TB rather have Vinny or Richards? If they cannot support both player under the cap who would you rather have and what package do you see TB getting back in return? Assuming of course that you can't trade St. Louis, unless you package him with a few 1st round choices that is

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Old
02-11-2006, 05:56 PM
  #24
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As an Ottawa fan, the last thing we need is another player that's due for a big raise. Even if Ottawa was after Richards, they'd definitely need to send some salary back to Tampa. I'm guessing Havlat would be the most likely candidate. But even then, Havlat may not be in a position to get a big raise this summer due to his injury, whereas Richards will, so a deal like that would just hamstring Ottawa even more.

As much as I like the thought of Richards in an Ottawa uni, a trade involving him is just not practical for either team.

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02-11-2006, 06:09 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingler
Who would TB rather have Vinny or Richards? If they cannot support both player under the cap who would you rather have and what package do you see TB getting back in return? Assuming of course that you can't trade St. Louis, unless you package him with a few 1st round choices that is
We would rather, and will have both, to be honest with you.

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