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Roster Speculation: 2017-18 Part 1

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Old
04-24-2017, 09:41 AM
  #76
OkimLom
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For all we know, Kulikov might have hated playing for Bylsma. Maybe with his firing, his opinion on re-signing here changes. It's not like we don't have a role for him on this team and the ice-time, and a better coach puts him in a better position to succeed.

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04-24-2017, 10:04 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkimLom View Post
For all we know, Kulikov might have hated playing for Bylsma. Maybe with his firing, his opinion on re-signing here changes. It's not like we don't have a role for him on this team and the ice-time, and a better coach puts him in a better position to succeed.
This is what I was thinking too

There's a lot of talent here...he could def play a top 4 role because of the lack of options we have on D right now.

I think he just hated playing for dufus, now that it's out of the way maybe if the market is poor he could give it a second chance...at least that's what we're hoping for.

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04-24-2017, 10:13 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
Carrier did all those things in limited ice time.
Highly successful player in limited ice time... Layne conclusion: player can't do more


Quote:
Extrapolating his production into a larger role isn't realistic or likely. He is a bottom 6 player. He is not a top 6 winger and never will be. And no Carrier-RoR-Okposo wasn't some super line that dominated other teams and led to success.
Carrier-ROR-KO had a 3.62 GF per 60 at ES.... it was only a span of ~8 games. And they dominated Corsi.

It's fun to see your position evolve from:
"Carrier is nothing more than a 4th liner"
to
"Carrier is a bottom 6 forward"

At least you've already begun moving your random, poorly informed goal posts....

Quote:
Carrier anywhere in the top 6 will lead to yet again another sub 200 goal season for the Sabres. Carrier is what he is, a solid bottom 6 winger. Again, overrated by Buffalo fans who think he is the answer to our scoring woes. I don't want Carrier in my top 6 to see him score 9 goals in a full season. Let him play on the bottom 2 lines causing havoc and have him start to PK.
No one thinks Carrier is the answer to our scoring woes. Objective fans see his how his skill set fits on a lot of lines, and saw those lines succeed when he was on them.


Quote:
Reinhart isn't good enough to carry anyone, at least not yet. He hasn't even really played center and we expect him to be able to center a line with mediocre wingers? This is Buffalo, not Pittsburgh. Plug and play wingers aren't taking this team to the playoffs. Justin Bailey and Hudson Fasching aren't Conor Sheary or Jake Guentzel. And Bailey and Fasching swapped with those two arent putting up even half of their production. Sheary and Guentzel are legitimate players in their own right magnified by Crosby and Malkin.
Uninformed opinions chosen to support other uninformed opinions





Quote:
Eichel may not need elite wingers but he surely needs decent ones. Unless you liked seeing him saddled with Foligno and Moulson. I sure didn't. Eichel needs quality. And again, we are using situations involving Pens and Oilers. Eichel is great. But he's clearly a huge level behind McDavid, Crosby and Malkin at the moment. Eichel isn't turning Bailey into a 30 goal scorer next year or probably ever because Bailey isn't that good. Bailey was actually pretty terrible this year . Just shows our winger depth isn't all that at all because Baileys play was extremely poor and shouldn't have been in the NHL. I don't know how you want to spend big bucks on D, there aren't any out there in free agency aside from Alzner who everyone seems to hate the idea spending 5-6 mil on.

Until BBCFN show they are NHL ready and top 6/9 caliber I'm not slotting them in or depending on them. They arent that good and outside of Nylander none of them are projected as top 6 wingers. Just because a lesser player is in some teams top 6 doesn't make said player a top 6 winger, that's just spreading out the lines. And at the end of the day, this team has exactly 5 forwards who are actually capable of scoring 40+ points. That's sad and it's even sadder that the number is probably 4 since everyone wants Kane gone.
You're a pretty terrible judge of capability. You should stick to stat counting, and leave the capability analysis to others

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Old
04-24-2017, 10:13 AM
  #79
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Quote:
If Kovalchuk returns to the NHL this season, he’ll be leaving the KHL on something of a high note. That 88-point projection is probably an outer marker given that it’s better than what he managed in any of his other years with St. Petersburgh. A cautious GM might dismiss it as an outlier, and instead expect a performance more in line with his previous work, projecting him to score somewhere in the 60-point range over a full NHL season.

That kind of projection fits neatly with what Radulov and Jagr actually accomplished. Both players scored 54 points in 70-odd games in their NHL returns. A 60-point season would be a modest improvement on that, and in keeping with Kovalchuk’s superior KHL work.

The median first-line forward this year scored 58 points, so a 60-point season would be above-average production for a first-line player. That should make Kovalchuk a very attractive asset to virtually every team in the league. Even now, there aren’t many players who can drive offence the way he can, and even fewer who bring his combination of size and established playoff performance.

If he’s serious about returning, there should be no shortage of suitors.

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Old
04-24-2017, 10:22 AM
  #80
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Don't want Kovalchuk. Acquiring him seems to fly in the face of the culture Pegula is looking for. Don't see him looking at Buffalo anyway, being a mercenary out for a paycheck and maybe a Cup run in his last few productive years.

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Old
04-24-2017, 10:54 AM
  #81
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Out

Kane(trade)
Gorges(waive to Rochester)
Moulson(off to Vegas)
Ennis(traded with salary retained)
Reinhart(traded for Haniifan)
Deslauriers(waive to Rochester)

In

Vet top 6 forward such as a Justin Williams(2-3 year deal)
Hanifan
Antipin
4th line vet with good speed and PK abilities
4-5-6 blueliner via UFA
Sign Peterson
Lehner and Girgensons get QO to prove thier long term value to the team


Top 6 - Eichel, ROR, Okposo, UFA, one of Bailey, Baptiste or Nylander) and maybe Rodrigues??
Bottom 6 - Larsson, Foligno, Carrier, Girgensons, Gionta and vet for 4th line

Defense - Risto, McCabe, Bogo, UFA, Antipin, Guhle and Hanifan

Goalie - Lehner & Ullmark

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Old
04-24-2017, 10:59 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Don't want Kovalchuk. Acquiring him seems to fly in the face of the culture Pegula is looking for. Don't see him looking at Buffalo anyway, being a mercenary out for a paycheck and maybe a Cup run in his last few productive years.
Correct, and to be honest, I don't see where he fits. He's going to be looking for a near over the top team with the ability to compete for a cup. We may be on the bubble to make the playoffs, but I don't see this team yet in current continuity as a cup winner/contender. They have too much work to do on the back end.

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Old
04-24-2017, 11:14 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancaster14 View Post
Out

Kane(trade)
Gorges(waive to Rochester)
Moulson(off to Vegas)
Ennis(traded with salary retained)
Reinhart(traded for Haniifan)
Deslauriers(waive to Rochester)

In

Vet top 6 forward such as a Justin Williams(2-3 year deal)
Hanifan
Antipin
4th line vet with good speed and PK abilities
4-5-6 blueliner via UFA
Sign Peterson
Lehner and Girgensons get QO to prove thier long term value to the team


Top 6 - Eichel, ROR, Okposo, UFA, one of Bailey, Baptiste or Nylander) and maybe Rodrigues??
Bottom 6 - Larsson, Foligno, Carrier, Girgensons, Gionta and vet for 4th line

Defense - Risto, McCabe, Bogo, UFA, Antipin, Guhle and Hanifan

Goalie - Lehner & Ullmark
We will need a bit more scoring than that IMO. I'm "okay" with moving Reinhart if it is Hanifin. But if it's less than that, I wouldn't touch moving him in any other type of move. I would consider something like Reinhart for Juolevi and Boeser from Vancouver.

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Old
04-24-2017, 01:47 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGirgs28 View Post
Without any moves, assuming signing Antipin/Kulikov and Nilsson leaving

Girgensons - Eichel - Okposo
Carrier - ROR - Ennis
Kane - Reinhart - Baptiste/Bailey/Fasching
Foligno - Larsson - Baptiste/Bailey/Fasching

McCabe - Risto
Guhle - Bogo
Gorges - Antipin

Lehner
Ullmark

Forward core is strong but that D sucks, need to get at least one good D, preferably Muzzin/Fowler for the left side
I thought Antipin plays the left side?

Quote:
Originally Posted by makeitburn View Post
I would sign Gionta to one more year without the C if he would take it. FLG as a 4th line staple that actually gets playing minutes would be a huge boost for this team. They need to take pressure off of the other lines, especially if they're littered with rookies
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by threeVo View Post
Stop penciling Carrier on the 4th line. If we get any coach besides DISCO FREAKING DAN hes a bonafide top 9 player for this team.

Eye test, advanced statistics all back this up without question.
Agreed. I want Carrier getting top-9 minutes each and every night. He can/will help ANY line he plays on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Sabres Captain View Post
Agreed.

Plus Eichel doesn't need elite wingers. Get him someone in the 3-4M range who can skate and keep up with him and Eichel will take care of the rest. Look what McDavid did to Patrick Maroon.

Spend the big bucks fixing the D. Let the centers make overacheiving wingers.
Even better, someone on an ELC. Let Jack be the first one out of the d-zone instead of the last, and get someone defensively responsible to be the F-3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
My off-season wishlist/plan...

ASAP
- Sign D Viktor Antipin
- Offer D Dmitri Kulikov 1-2yr deal at $4.5M provided he is finally healthy
- Offer W/C Sam Reinhart to SJS in exchange for D Justin Braun . Sharks have 4 potential d-men (Burns, Vlasic, Madden, Braun) to protect in upcoming expansion draft as well as opening in top-6 with likely departure of Thornton & Marleau after disappointing exit from rnd 1.
- Re-sign Brian Gionta to 1yr deal.
- Sign G Cal Peterson to 2yr ELC

June 15th (buyout window opens)
- Buyout D Zach Bogosian $5.143M AAV - Cap hit remaining is <$2M for the next 6yrs, cap savings of $3M+ for next 3yrs.

June 18 (Expansion draft begins)
-Protecting Kyle Okposo (NMC), Ryan O’Reilly, Evander Kane, William Carrier, Zemgus Girgensons, Johan Larsson, Marcus Foligno, Rasmus Ristolainen, Jake McCabe, Dmitri Kulikov (if re-signed, if not protect Falk), Robin Lehner.
Tyler Ennis left unprotected.

June 23 (NHL Entry Draft)
Use 1st RND selection to try to get D Timothy Liljegren or Juuso Valimaki depending on draft position. Miro Heiskanen is also intriguing, however his lack of size likely means a couple years of conditioning.

July 1 (UFA)
- If Kulikov walks, Offer D Michael Stone 4yrs @ $4.5M AAV
- Re-Sign F Thomas Vanek to 2yr $5M deal

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming LV takes Tyler Ennis, Moulson in ROC, Vanek Signed, Gio back on a 1yr deal.

Kane($5.25)-RoR($7.5M)-Okposo($6M)
Girgensons($2M?)-Eichel($925K)-Bailey($670K)
Vanek($2.5M?)-Larsson($1.25M?)-Carrier($689K)
Foligno($2.5M?)-Rodrigues($925K?)-Gionta(($2M?)
X.Moulson($5M) Nylander, Fasching

Assuming Antipin signs, replace Kulikov w/ Stone if Dmitri walks July 1.

McCabe($1.6M)-Risto($5.4M)
Kulikov($4.5M)[Stone]-Braun($3.8M)
Guhle($703K)-Antipin($925K)
X.Gorges($3.9M)

Lehner($3.5M?)
Ullmark($925K?)
X. Peterson

Buyout - Bogosian ($1.587M)

CAP HIT $60M
PROJECTED CAP $76M
CAP SPACE $16M
Am I the first one to puke on re-signing Vanek?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Highly successful player in limited ice time... Layne conclusion: player can't do more


Carrier-ROR-KO had a 3.62 GF per 60 at ES.... it was only a span of ~8 games. And they dominated Corsi.

It's fun to see your position evolve from:
"Carrier is nothing more than a 4th liner"
to
"Carrier is a bottom 6 forward"

At least you've already begun moving your random, poorly informed goal posts....

No one thinks Carrier is the answer to our scoring woes. Objective fans see his how his skill set fits on a lot of lines, and saw those lines succeed when he was on them.

Uninformed opinions chosen to support other uninformed opinions

You're a pretty terrible judge of capability. You should stick to stat counting, and leave the capability analysis to others
There's enough ad hominem in this reply to last a few threads, but I like the bolded one, in particular.

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Old
04-24-2017, 05:12 PM
  #85
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Old
04-24-2017, 05:21 PM
  #86
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I don't want anything to do with Vanek

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Old
04-24-2017, 05:33 PM
  #87
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A HEADS UP

The GM debate (Chia, Lombardi, etc) was moved to the GM search 2017 thread.

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Old
04-24-2017, 05:38 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancaster14 View Post
Out

Kane(trade)
Gorges(waive to Rochester)
Moulson(off to Vegas)
Ennis(traded with salary retained)
Reinhart(traded for Haniifan)
Deslauriers(waive to Rochester)

In

Vet top 6 forward such as a Justin Williams(2-3 year deal)
Hanifan
Antipin
4th line vet with good speed and PK abilities
4-5-6 blueliner via UFA
Sign Peterson
Lehner and Girgensons get QO to prove thier long term value to the team


Top 6 - Eichel, ROR, Okposo, UFA, one of Bailey, Baptiste or Nylander) and maybe Rodrigues??
Bottom 6 - Larsson, Foligno, Carrier, Girgensons, Gionta and vet for 4th line

Defense - Risto, McCabe, Bogo, UFA, Antipin, Guhle and Hanifan

Goalie - Lehner & Ullmark

Next year, I want the speed that Ghule, Bailey, Baptiste, Rodriques & Carrier bring.
Is Nylander considered fast?

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Old
04-24-2017, 06:57 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmuffalo View Post
I don't want anything to do with Vanek
Same. That ship has sailed.

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Old
04-24-2017, 07:10 PM
  #90
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Wait someone wants to buy out Bogo for $3m in cap savings and taking on a $2m cap penalty for six years? That's a depth signing for a defenseman who could possibly improve in a better role / system. Holy cow.

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Old
04-24-2017, 07:20 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myers888 View Post
Next year, I want the speed that Ghule, Bailey, Baptiste, Rodriques & Carrier bring.
Is Nylander considered fast?
I'd like to think he's somewhere between ROR and Kane. Was it just me or did he seem v skinny? How much does he weigh? Probably adding some muscle in the offseason will help him loads.

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Old
04-24-2017, 08:03 PM
  #92
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I'll post the trades later, but my speculation has been working with this framework:

OReilly-Eichel-Okposo
Carrier-Larsson-Callahan
Nylander-Reinhart-Sharp
Girgensons-Lewis-Foligno
Scandella-Ristolainen
McCabe-Tanev
Antipin-Bogosian
Lehner
Ullmark

Still determining the realism, and if Callahan has something left, but what I've liked about this look is that it seems possible, and has 4 lines and 3 pairs that would have definite roles.

All Situations; Win 5v5
Heavy D-zone
Heavy O-zone
Heavy Possession in the Ozone
All Situations
D-zone matchups
Specialist Pairing (Hide Bogo here for now)

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Old
04-24-2017, 08:06 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielor View Post
I'll post the trades later, but my speculation has been working with this framework:

OReilly-Eichel-Okposo
Carrier-Larsson-Callahan
Nylander-Reinhart-Sharp
Girgensons-Lewis-Foligno
Scandella-Ristolainen
McCabe-Tanev
Antipin-Bogosian
Lehner
Ullmark

Still determining the realism, and if Callahan has something left, but what I've liked about this look is that it seems possible, and has 4 lines and 3 pairs that would have definite roles.

All Situations; Win 5v5
Heavy D-zone
Heavy O-zone
Heavy Possession in the Ozone
All Situations
D-zone matchups
Specialist Pairing (Hide Bogo here for now)
Callahan is toast. Definitely not a guy to count on for meaningful contributions.
Love the idea of getting scandella and tanev, though. Assuming Kane for 1 and a mix of prospects and picks for the other?

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Old
04-24-2017, 08:07 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielor View Post
I'll post the trades later, but my speculation has been working with this framework:

OReilly-Eichel-Okposo
Carrier-Larsson-Callahan
Nylander-Reinhart-Sharp
Girgensons-Lewis-Foligno
Scandella-Ristolainen
McCabe-Tanev
Antipin-Bogosian
Lehner
Ullmark

Still determining the realism, and if Callahan has something left, but what I've liked about this look is that it seems possible, and has 4 lines and 3 pairs that would have definite roles.

All Situations; Win 5v5
Heavy D-zone
Heavy O-zone
Heavy Possession in the Ozone
All Situations
D-zone matchups
Specialist Pairing (Hide Bogo here for now)
I'd pass in that no offense. Love Callahan but want no part of that contract. Sharp will cost more than a Justin Williams type for the team.

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04-24-2017, 08:16 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
I'd pass in that no offense. Love Callahan but want no part of that contract. Sharp will cost more than a Justin Williams type for the team.
It's less about the specific acquisitions, and more about the structure. Namely, Eichel and OReilly together on line 1, Larsson and a veteran pest on shutdown line 2, and Reinhart with a quick playmaker on line 3 (rodrigues, nylander)

And that revamp of the D into something respectable.

I was working with

Kane, Bailey >> Tanev

2-38 , 3-68 >> Scandella

The latter of which, Minnesota fans had liked on the trade forums.

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04-24-2017, 08:19 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielor View Post
I'll post the trades later, but my speculation has been working with this framework:

OReilly-Eichel-Okposo
Carrier-Larsson-Callahan
Nylander-Reinhart-Sharp
Girgensons-Lewis-Foligno
Scandella-Ristolainen
McCabe-Tanev
Antipin-Bogosian
Lehner
Ullmark

Still determining the realism, and if Callahan has something left, but what I've liked about this look is that it seems possible, and has 4 lines and 3 pairs that would have definite roles.

All Situations; Win 5v5
Heavy D-zone
Heavy O-zone
Heavy Possession in the Ozone
All Situations
D-zone matchups
Specialist Pairing (Hide Bogo here for now)
Callahan is absolutely toast and Sharp isn't that far behind him. Nylander most likely won't be ready next year. Your offensive system would be great pre-lockout -- one top-end line and no scoring depth behind it.

I don't think you can realistically get both Scandella AND Tanev and not touch anything on the roster you currently have. You're also claiming that Bogo needs to be "hidden" away when I think the truth is (and I think most agree) that he was just flat-out a poor fit for Bylsma's system (as was Kuli).

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04-24-2017, 08:20 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielor View Post
It's less about the specific acquisitions, and more about the structure. Namely, Eichel and OReilly together on line 1, Larsson and a veteran pest on shutdown line 2, and Reinhart with a quick playmaker on line 3 (rodrigues, nylander)

And that revamp of the D into something respectable.

I was working with

Kane, Bailey >> Tanev

2-38 , 3-68 >> Scandella

The latter of which, Minnesota fans had liked on the trade forums.
I'm 100% behind your defense.

Curious where moulson, ennis and Gorges magically went though. And if they have all disappeared I'm going for Oshie with that cap space not Callahan and sharp.

Edit. Also have no interest in ror and eichel together unless sam has locked down 2c. Ror has okposo...Eichel gets oshie. One pair gets baptiste who is also mia. Nylander needs to blow doors off this summer to be on this team.

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Old
04-24-2017, 08:22 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabrielor View Post
It's less about the specific acquisitions, and more about the structure. Namely, Eichel and OReilly together on line 1, Larsson and a veteran pest on shutdown line 2, and Reinhart with a quick playmaker on line 3 (rodrigues, nylander)

And that revamp of the D into something respectable.

I was working with

Kane, Bailey >> Tanev

2-38 , 3-68 >> Scandella

The latter of which, Minnesota fans had liked on the trade forums.
The Tanev trade needs one more piece of significance. Same with the Scandella trade, though the piece is less significant. And frankly I'm shocked that you'd fine Minny fans agreeable to the Scandella deal.

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04-24-2017, 08:24 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
The Tanev trade needs one more piece of significance. Same with the Scandella trade, though the piece is less significant. And frankly I'm shocked that you'd fine Minny fans agreeable to the Scandella deal.
I had sometime around the trade deadline, I'd have to find the threat.

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Old
04-24-2017, 08:31 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
When is Fowler supposed to return?

I'd love for Anaheim to go far without Fowler, Theodore continues to play well, and Fowler becomes available.

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