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2016-17 Around the League V

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Old
05-12-2017, 11:12 AM
  #101
Cousin Eddie
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I like that Ben Bishop deal for Dallas. They did what they had to do. People are making fun of the term but people will make fun whatever way they can. Had they only given 4 years it likely would have been an AAV of 5.5-6 which people would have also made fun of. It was one or the other and I think it's a good move for a team who desperately needs a goaltender. I'm not sold on the rest of Dallas improving like everyone expects them to but at least they got their best possible option for their crease looked after. Bishop isn't elite. His glove hand is awful. But he's a capable starting goaltender.

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05-12-2017, 02:00 PM
  #102
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I like that Ben Bishop deal for Dallas. They did what they had to do. People are making fun of the term but people will make fun whatever way they can. Had they only given 4 years it likely would have been an AAV of 5.5-6 which people would have also made fun of. It was one or the other and I think it's a good move for a team who desperately needs a goaltender. I'm not sold on the rest of Dallas improving like everyone expects them to but at least they got their best possible option for their crease looked after. Bishop isn't elite. His glove hand is awful. But he's a capable starting goaltender.
Behind a competent defensive group. I have more of a problem with his mobility than his glove hand personally.

It's definitely not a horrible contract right this minute, but it's going to go down in flames if he struggles behind a Dallas team that isn't built for his benefit. That contract has a 50/50 shot of being either really good or really terrible.

Remember how many times Niemi made the playoffs with SJ, and how he won a cup with Chicago? Niemi was considered one of the most consistent goaltenders out there while he was with SJ, and was almost a lock as a top 5 fantasy goalie for wins. I see Bishop in a very similar light.

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05-12-2017, 02:06 PM
  #103
UncleRisto
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This move alone isn't going to do anything for Dallas. They're still a mess.

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05-12-2017, 02:10 PM
  #104
Bubba Thudd
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Originally Posted by UncleRisto View Post
This move alone isn't going to do anything for Dallas. They're still a mess.
pot, meet kettle

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05-12-2017, 02:15 PM
  #105
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pot, meet kettle
Well what the hell's the difference?

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05-12-2017, 02:18 PM
  #106
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POT



KETTLE

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Old
05-12-2017, 02:45 PM
  #107
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The cap hit isn't bad for the Stars but giving six years to a goalie who turns 31 this year is crazy.

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05-12-2017, 04:34 PM
  #108
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I have two issues with the Bishop signing. The first is the length of the contract. That is quite the gamble for Dallas to make. I can see the first two years potentially working out but after that it'll be tough to swallow. The second issue is that this a bad fit right now. Dallas is known for their high event hockey. This requires a goalie with very good footwork and able to track he puck from the shot to body. Bishop has decent footwork for a big guy but his puck tracking is limited. He even admitted that he primarily just reads the puck coming off the stick and that's it. He needs a solid system in front of him to operate at his peak.

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Old
05-12-2017, 05:30 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
I have two issues with the Bishop signing. The first is the length of the contract. That is quite the gamble for Dallas to make. I can see the first two years potentially working out but after that it'll be tough to swallow. The second issue is that this a bad fit right now. Dallas is known for their high event hockey. This requires a goalie with very good footwork and able to track he puck from the shot to body. Bishop has decent footwork for a big guy but his puck tracking is limited. He even admitted that he primarily just reads the puck coming off the stick and that's it. He needs a solid system in front of him to operate at his peak.
Isnt that partly why that got Hitch?

Term stinks but he was there best option imo, so his agent played hardball.

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05-12-2017, 05:56 PM
  #110
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I think that the Stars will be much better with Bishop than with Niemi/Lehtonen and with Hitchcock at the helm.

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05-12-2017, 06:01 PM
  #111
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I think that the Stars will be much better with Bishop than with Niemi/Lehtonen and with Hitchcock at the helm.
Lehtonen at his best is just as good as Bishop, just Lehtonen can't do that all that much. So they're going to get some more decent goaltending. If their defense doesn't get better though, and their offense doesn't rebound big time, it ain't gonna do much.

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05-12-2017, 06:02 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
I have two issues with the Bishop signing. The first is the length of the contract. That is quite the gamble for Dallas to make. I can see the first two years potentially working out but after that it'll be tough to swallow. The second issue is that this a bad fit right now. Dallas is known for their high event hockey. This requires a goalie with very good footwork and able to track he puck from the shot to body. Bishop has decent footwork for a big guy but his puck tracking is limited. He even admitted that he primarily just reads the puck coming off the stick and that's it. He needs a solid system in front of him to operate at his peak.
Exactly how I feel, but you put it in a much more intelligent analysis. Nice to know I'm not the only one that sees that.

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05-12-2017, 06:03 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by UncleRisto View Post
Lehtonen at his best is just as good as Bishop, just Lehtonen can't do that all that much. So they're going to get some more decent goaltending. If their defense doesn't get better though, and their offense doesn't rebound big time, it ain't gonna do much.
Isn't Lehtonen's main issue how much injuries have plagued his career?

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Old
05-12-2017, 06:07 PM
  #114
dahrougem2
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Originally Posted by UncleRisto View Post
Lehtonen at his best is just as good as Bishop, just Lehtonen can't do that all that much. So they're going to get some more decent goaltending. If their defense doesn't get better though, and their offense doesn't rebound big time, it ain't gonna do much.
That's the key thing. Lehtonen doesn't do it nearly enough to warrant being a #1 goaltender. I think Bishop still can. I also don't fear giving goaltenders longer contracts into their 30's the same way I do forwards and defensemen.

I have no idea if the offence can rebound playing under Hitchcock, though.

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05-12-2017, 06:10 PM
  #115
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Isn't Lehtonen's main issue how much injuries have plagued his career?
Yeah. Because ("allegedly") he's always floated on talent and it has showed in his training regimen. Don't know if it still does, early career it did and I have this on good authority, but now you can't undo his injury history.

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Old
05-12-2017, 06:24 PM
  #116
Gigantor The Goalie
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Isnt that partly why that got Hitch?

Term stinks but he was there best option imo, so his agent played hardball.
Hitch actually opened up his system in St. Louis which led to the decrease in Allen's numbers befor Yeo took over.

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05-12-2017, 06:24 PM
  #117
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Yeah. Because ("allegedly") he's always floated on talent and it has showed in his training regimen. Don't know if it still does, early career it did and I have this on good authority, but now you can't undo his injury history.
Ahh I didn't know there was other issues like that, but I did remember he had a bit of what could have been reputation.

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05-12-2017, 07:54 PM
  #118
Cousin Eddie
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Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
I have two issues with the Bishop signing. The first is the length of the contract. That is quite the gamble for Dallas to make. I can see the first two years potentially working out but after that it'll be tough to swallow. The second issue is that this a bad fit right now. Dallas is known for their high event hockey. This requires a goalie with very good footwork and able to track he puck from the shot to body. Bishop has decent footwork for a big guy but his puck tracking is limited. He even admitted that he primarily just reads the puck coming off the stick and that's it. He needs a solid system in front of him to operate at his peak.
I'm curious, if you think the first two years will work out why do you think it will get worse after. Goaltenders generally don't go downhill at 32. If it's injury concerns you're worried about why would they be more likely after 2 good years?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I like your analysis of the whole situation. I'm just curious of what that 2 year term represents. To me if he ha 2 good years I don't see any reason to believe he wouldn't have another 2 or 3 more good ones.

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05-12-2017, 09:18 PM
  #119
InjuredChoker
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I'm curious, if you think the first two years will work out why do you think it will get worse after. Goaltenders generally don't go downhill at 32. If it's injury concerns you're worried about why would they be more likely after 2 good years?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I like your analysis of the whole situation. I'm just curious of what that 2 year term represents. To me if he ha 2 good years I don't see any reason to believe he wouldn't have another 2 or 3 more good ones.


https://hockey-graphs.com/2014/03/21...e-aging-curve/

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Old
05-12-2017, 11:52 PM
  #120
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How does it work with the expansion draft now that these players have been signed before it (darling and bishop). They aren't exempt because its a new team right?

I guess Lehtonen, Niemi and Ward will all be exposed?

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05-12-2017, 11:54 PM
  #121
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How does it work with the expansion draft now that these players have been signed before it (darling and bishop). They aren't exempt because its a new team right?

I guess Lehtonen, Niemi and Ward will all be exposed?
Yes, I think the teams are basically saying we'll protect the new guy.

Like if someone traded for Duchene before the XD they have to protect him.

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05-13-2017, 07:15 AM
  #122
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Yes, I think the teams are basically saying we'll protect the new guy.

Like if someone traded for Duchene before the XD they have to protect him.
Makes sense. Thanks!

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05-13-2017, 07:49 AM
  #123
Cousin Eddie
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Wow I would have guessed that curve started later for goalies. Especially when you consider most don't enter the league until after the age that chart starts at.

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05-13-2017, 10:03 AM
  #124
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Yes, I think the teams are basically saying we'll protect the new guy.

Like if someone traded for Duchene before the XD they have to protect him.
Not surprising. Frankly, being able to expose both Niemi and Lehtonen is a bonus for Dallas in all of this.

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05-13-2017, 10:06 AM
  #125
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Not surprising. Frankly, being able to expose both Niemi and Lehtonen is a bonus for Dallas in all of this.
It'd be pretty laughable if neither of them get drafted by Vegas though. Varly and Picks are still better options if left exposed IMO. The really interesting angle is to see if Pitt leaves Fleury exposed after how he's played so far in the playoffs.

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