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Shea Weber - Offseason Edition *mod warning post 1 and 376*

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Old
05-17-2017, 06:58 AM
  #376
Treb
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Ok guys, I'll repeat that warning from post #1

And folks, leave the Subban talk for the out of town thread please. Thanks.

No Subban talk here. Those who continue to do it will be threadbanned.

And please use the report function instead of complaining in the thread. Mods are not AI, so they may miss things when they're not on and reporting it means Mods will see it. Help us help you.

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05-17-2017, 12:52 PM
  #377
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Maybe if Bergevin is canned.
That would be a great start.

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05-17-2017, 01:06 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by jaffy27 View Post
If Danault is still our number 1 centre moving forward........no

And neither will Price
Poor Price. He may never win a conference final game in his career, and it's all Webers fault.

For shame.

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Old
05-18-2017, 02:32 AM
  #379
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If Danault is still our number 1 centre moving forward........no
Yep, Danault sucks.

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Originally Posted by jaffy27 View Post
And neither will Price
Price has literally already been to a conference final.

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Old
05-21-2017, 12:23 PM
  #380
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Old
05-22-2017, 11:19 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by HabsGorgeous View Post
Were not asking Weber to "lead" us. Were asking Weber to be Weber. If we win a Cup, it's going to be a TEAM effort. Just like if the Preds win a Cup this year.
How often do teams win a cup due to a team effort? It happened last year, sure...but usually there's one or two players carrying the team.

Weber won't be that person, the person we traded for him could have been (since he had a history of stepping it up in the playoffs). You think if we won the cup this year, you could say it was a team effort knowing very well how useless Pacioretty had been in rd 1 (and might have been in the rest of the playoffs).

You think if the preds win the cup this year, Mike Fisher can say he was useful with a straight face? The NHL is a team game, sure...but usually a handful of individuals on each team take their teams to greatness. Guys like Fisher get carried their by those individuals.

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Old
05-22-2017, 01:08 PM
  #382
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Lets see the anti Webs crowd turn the old "hes bad cause bad advanced stats say so" narrative into something else now

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05-22-2017, 01:13 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Lets see the anti Webs crowd turn the old "hes bad cause bad advanced stats say so" narrative into something else now
One day we can hopefully have a defenseman as good as Oscar Klefbom, the undisputed greatest defenseman in the league.

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Old
05-22-2017, 01:16 PM
  #384
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One day we can hopefully have a defenseman as good as Oscar Klefbom, the undisputed greatest defenseman in the league.
Or Ekman Larsson, Or Hedman, or McDonagh, or Vlasic, Or Karlsson...

Note that Klefbom is still one of the best defenders in the league. Hes an absolute beast and he will be elite for a long period, but I wouldnt expect anyone on this side of HFboards to know that.

This measures impact BTW, so its not exactly a ranking of their ability, but their impact on the teams and it takes into account variables such ad penalty drawn and taken, which is why Klef is so high, overall if you were to look at every team, youd see most accurate results. Look at the Habs chart and tell me its not accurate.


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05-22-2017, 02:58 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Or Ekman Larsson, Or Hedman, or McDonagh, or Vlasic, Or Karlsson...

Note that Klefbom is still one of the best defenders in the league. Hes an absolute beast and he will be elite for a long period, but I wouldnt expect anyone on this side of HFboards to know that.

This measures impact BTW, so its not exactly a ranking of their ability, but their impact on the teams and it takes into account variables such ad penalty drawn and taken, which is why Klef is so high, overall if you were to look at every team, youd see most accurate results. Look at the Habs chart and tell me its not accurate.
Klefbom isn't even in the top 20 right now, but he's getting better and will be eventually.

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05-23-2017, 07:15 PM
  #386
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Klefbom isn't even in the top 20 right now, but he's getting better and will be eventually.

top 20? hes not even top 50

lmfao

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Old
05-24-2017, 01:21 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Lets see the anti Webs crowd turn the old "hes bad cause bad advanced stats say so" narrative into something else now
A ranking that has Klefbom as a more impactful player than Karlsson needs to be mocked and then disregarded.

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Old
05-24-2017, 06:29 AM
  #388
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top 20? hes not even top 50

lmfao
You doubt the rankings? Shame!


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05-24-2017, 07:06 AM
  #389
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Klefbom is the next Bobby Orr ;-)

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Old
05-24-2017, 08:05 AM
  #390
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Does this represent last season?

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Old
05-24-2017, 10:54 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
A ranking that has Klefbom as a more impactful player than Karlsson needs to be mocked and then disregarded.
I don't know the advanced stat used but every single advanced stat or stat for that matter can have outliers.

It is what it is.

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Old
05-24-2017, 10:55 AM
  #392
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Those who insist on turning this into a Subban debate will continue to be threadbanned.

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Old
05-24-2017, 02:30 PM
  #393
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The author of DTM's GAR system would be the first to tell you that its a not ready for primetime experiment at a WAR equivalent, basically still in beta, rather than a definative all-in-one value stat.

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05-24-2017, 04:19 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
The author of DTM's GAR system would be the first to tell you that its a not ready for primetime experiment at a WAR equivalent, basically still in beta, rather than a definative all-in-one value stat.
Garret does say it is. But its still a close one right now.

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05-24-2017, 04:20 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
A ranking that has Klefbom as a more impactful player than Karlsson needs to be mocked and then disregarded.
I mean, Karlsson is the best offensive D in thr league, and it does represent that pretty well. Also disregard the penalty take drawn and Klefbom drops down really low.

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Old
05-24-2017, 04:24 PM
  #396
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I mean, Karlsson is the best offensive D in thr league, and it does represent that pretty well. Also disregard the penalty take drawn and Klefbom drops down really low.
Karlsson's offensive skill is so obvious its pretty easy to build a system that gets that right. Its also pretty easy to separate out good versus average vs bad players. Its the finer gradiations that get harder. In particular, relative weighting of aspects is a really difficult thing to get right. In general this system appears to have a problem with overvaluing the adjustment factor of defensemen who played with weak partners/teams.


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Old
05-24-2017, 05:10 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Karlsson's offensive skill is so obvious its pretty easy to build a system that gets that right. Its also pretty easy to separate out good versus average vs bad players. Its the finer gradiations that get harder. In particular, relative weighting of aspects is a really difficult thing to get right. In general this system appears to have a problem with overvaluing the adjustment factor of defensemen who played with weak partners/teams.
Methot would be considered a weak partner.

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Old
05-24-2017, 05:33 PM
  #398
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Methot would be considered a weak partner.
That he would, and Karlsson will also get extra consideration because the Ottawa defense corps in general is awful past him. Nobody would care about Methot if he didn't play with Karlsson, he isn't notably a notably good overall player.

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05-24-2017, 05:33 PM
  #399
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It's not just Klefblom, look at Pietrangelo or Hedman. Their defensive scores are almost 0. Does anyone seriouslty think defensively those guys are replacement level players?

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Old
05-24-2017, 07:25 PM
  #400
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It's not just Klefblom, look at Pietrangelo or Hedman. Their defensive scores are almost 0. Does anyone seriouslty think defensively those guys are replacement level players?
Its team relative.

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