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ECSF: Capitals vs Penguins (Pens win) (mod warning post 806)

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Old
05-04-2017, 07:03 AM
  #101
badi
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It all comes down to you re best players now
No more excuses
OVI AND BACKSTROM have to step up or just blow it up in the summer

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05-04-2017, 07:05 AM
  #102
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The pens are playing great team D, while our D is porous which puts undue pressure on Holts. Pitt players on offense have so much time and space.

Pitt is contesting every shot and pass, and usually succeeding, all over the ice. If we get a clean shot off, it is not on goal. That may not be a coincidence, since the shooter can see there is not a snowballs chance in hell the puck can get anywhere near the net.

It's coaching. Pitts worst D have no problem getting pucks out of their zone, hitting their worst forwards in full stride, while stifling our breakout pretty consistently - its takes puck battles to exit. Preventing breakaways, as we give them up. What doesn't meet the eye test is the disparity in shots, but Pitt seems to do it by design, almost trapping us.

Bonino or officials should be fined for calls like last nights on Oshie. Pitt fresh off 2 extra man goals, yet we lose 2 minutes of the extra man for that embellishment. It should have been 4 on 4 if anything. Oshie looked super pissed going to be box but kept his cool since you know another minor would be tacked on real quick.

Barry could stand to show some emotion on the bench. It is not him, but him keeping his cool is not working for him after 15 years. There IS a time for a coach to blow up and take some pressure off the players. Force publicity on a horrible call, maybe it will work in the long run. Throw some sticks on the ice. Old school. Take a public stand for his boys, show some fire.


Last edited by RandyHolt; 05-04-2017 at 07:23 AM..
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05-04-2017, 07:18 AM
  #103
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If everyone was playing as hard as Wilson we'd of swept the pens WITH Crosby. Beagle has been noticeably terrible and another offensively talented player in Burakovsky got 2 assists this playoffs... like common, do something..

There was a lot of cheapie penalties called against us last game, but this team needs to sac up if they expect to climb out of this canyon they put themselves in. But, do we really expect them to make it out? I honestly don't think at this point enough of them believe they can do it. Its like the 82 game season is too much for them and when playoff hockey comes and they need to take it to another level they just can't.

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05-04-2017, 07:23 AM
  #104
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The 90-92-14 line has been dominant, they just have to elevate the puck on any rebound they get. I'd try swapping Bura with Ovechkin and see if Bura's speed helps elevate the play of 19 and 77. Let Ovechkin down with Eller and Wilson and make Pitt decide which pair to throw out against that line. Spreads the offense out a bit

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05-04-2017, 07:24 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Caps8112 View Post
im normally extremely negative about the team even tho ive followed them since the 80s and watch almost every game. I still think they will push this series a lot further. Not going to get all invested because they shouldnt be able to but still think this goes 7. A team cannot be severely outplayed for 3 out of 4 games turtling and expect it to continue. Im not blaming refs either. Its simple Fleury is not as good as he is playing and the caps A shooters are not as bad as they have been. Something has to give. If the pens win the cup tho I dont see how Fleury is not the Smythe winner. Everyone else on the pens including Malkin is a long for the ride.
I still don't understand how Caps fans think this way. It is entirely possible that everything you wrote here can happen, because everything you wrote here has already happened on multiple occasions. The Wild severely outplayed the Blues last round in one of the most lopsided series in recent memory but Allen was amazing and Dubnyk fell apart. I shouldn't have to remind people of 2010 and Halak. With regards to your comment re: shooting, the Caps highest shooting percentage in the playoffs in the Ovechkin era was the Halak series (what a depressing thought that is) and it's been downhill since then.

This is hockey. It's random. Goalies can go God mode and steal a series. Pucks bounce weird ways. One or two mistakes can undo an entire game of dominance. It is the least "fair" playoffs in all of sports because it is so random.

I will say this: the Caps can win this series -- they are playing well enough that they should not be down 3-1 -- but Holtby needs to be great and they need a fortuitous bounce here and there. It all starts with #70. We've seen Lundqvist put his team on his back and carry them for three straight games to beat the Caps after being down 3-1. We've seen Varly do it in this exact scenario (lose 1st 2 games at home, win G3, lose G4, win last 3) against the Rangers. We've seen plenty of goalies do it in series not involving the Caps. If that Caps stand a chance, Holtby needs to go Conn Smythe. He's certainly talented enough to do it, but he looks rattled and unconfident. Not sure if mentally he believes he can. Frankly, I'm not if anyone in that locker believes they can do it.

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05-04-2017, 07:34 AM
  #106
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The Caps have been cycling well and keeping possession, but their goal with all the cycling is to try to get it back to the D for a point shot. With all the shot-blocking by the Penguins, this can't be the right approach. I'd try clogging the crease and throwing it into the mixer from the corners. Basically, if the Penguins are going to play like the Rangers' defense from a few years ago, let's try playing like the Rangers' offense from a few years ago.

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05-04-2017, 07:53 AM
  #107
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The playoffs there really is zero room for mistakes. Having our slowest defensive pairing against the Pens fastest and proven dangerous line (see last year) that one has to be on Reirden.

.833 GAA wont cut it. Last 5 goalies to win a Cup, all have GSAA +0.00 to +5.00 (goals saved above average) Holtby this playoffs -2.00

We need a coach or an assistant coach to teach our forwards how to box out the defenders in front of the other goal. Its amazing how that after the 2009 debacle and nearly 8 years later, they STILL cant figure it out.

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05-04-2017, 07:54 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
The 90-92-14 line has been dominant, they just have to elevate the puck on any rebound they get. I'd try swapping Bura with Ovechkin and see if Bura's speed helps elevate the play of 19 and 77. Let Ovechkin down with Eller and Wilson and make Pitt decide which pair to throw out against that line. Spreads the offense out a bit
I'd be down for pretty much any shakeup of lines 1 and 3 as long as 2 is kept in tact (and promoted to the first line). I suggested flipping Oshie and Wilson but I'd be ok with your suggestion as well.

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05-04-2017, 08:05 AM
  #109
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Ovi needs his TOI or role limited. He is not himself and seemed close to useless at ES last night, outside of drawing defenders to him to take his lunch money.

I would like a shakeup

90 19 65 | 77 92 14 | 8 20 43 |

But expect Barry to stay the course. Last night was a tough game after losing Sid in their barn #WinItForSid trending, and the league probably wanted a pro Pitt night and NBC did their part. There's blood! The embellishment non calls effectively killing 4 TOI of extra men was a big factor. I do want to hear Barry call out the Bonino and Wilson dives publically. Say they should be embarrassed or fined. Wake up BMac. Work the system! Every damn year, I see our coaches just taking their lumps and not speaking up.


Last edited by RandyHolt; 05-04-2017 at 08:22 AM..
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05-04-2017, 08:23 AM
  #110
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I was completely disgusted with Ovechkin's effort last night, to the point where I started feeling uncomfortable with myself as a human being. Maybe he is playing hurt ?

I literally just watched Ovechkin whenever he had a shift...here is all the good stuff he did:
1 good backcheck / steal
3 hits
2 shots
1 scoring chance created by flipping the puck towards the net

Bad:
Repeatedly lost pucks in his skates
2 offensive zone penalties
floats in the d-zone / appears lost (he may always do this, but it wouldn't be a problem if at least gave more effort)
Loses battles along boards, in corners, and behind the net
No longer has any ability to carry the puck through the neutral zone and perform a zone entry

He was basically invisible last night. I don't see why he is Captain. The Capitals should retain salary / trade him or let him go play in the KHL, so they can keep Oshie.

Oshie is a better player. He is not as talented as Ovechkin in terms of shooting, but he is better at everything else.

Yes, the Penguins were lucky.

Yes, Alzner and Orpik had a miscommunicaiton on Hornquisvst's goal.

Yes, Fleury stole the game.

Yes, the Caps have mostly outplayed the Penguins and Fleury is stealing the series.

But as long as Ovechkin is invisible like he was last night, his contract is a drain on the team. That's 10 million dollars. Theoretically, if he were to retire, you could keep Oshie and sign a Radulov level player.

I don't know if Ovechkin will ever commit to fitness but his career trajectory can only get worse from here if he doesn't. It doesn't seem like has ever improved any aspect of his game that is poor or below average.

Capitals fans are long suffering and deserve better. I admire your resilience and commitment.

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05-04-2017, 08:34 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by twabby View Post
I'd be down for pretty much any shakeup of lines 1 and 3 as long as 2 is kept in tact (and promoted to the first line). I suggested flipping Oshie and Wilson but I'd be ok with your suggestion as well.
At this point the Kuznetsov line has to be the top line and I'm sure Pitt is gameplanning that way. They would be foolish otherwise because that trio has been the only one generating offense.

Flipping Oshie and Wilson makes sense but it also kills Backstroms role. He'd be stuck with two guys that couldn't put the puck in the net, although I like the way Wilson has played the past few games. He's one of the few who actually seem like they give a damn

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05-04-2017, 08:47 AM
  #112
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When I can give up the board and the conversation, I will be over it. Right now I cant watch the games anymore. I do keep up with them. Check the score regular or keep the game box score on the computer or something.

Last night I watched the open without sound and saw Dave Steckel's picture and walked a way. I came back just in time to see Hornqvist score and I switched the tv off. I checked the score to see it was 2-0 and went back to work. I checked again to see it was 2-2. Before my smile was fully formed it changed to 3-2 and I went on with my life.

Bottom line is that its not fun. They are what they are and this is it. Each year makes the next year harder and I mean that about the players and coaches and the franchise. They are a laughing stock and there is just no way that doesn't effect them. It gets progressively hard to enjoy anything they do in the regular season because its just a tease.

I wont watch another Caps hockey game til its g1 of the 3rd round. Whatever year that happens to be. I have to talk to directv anyway. So I will cancel the hockey package for next season when I call.

btw....you know whats going to happen. Right? they are going to step up and win game 5 and 6 and then find some unbelievable new way to lose game 7.

I just cant watch anymore. Its not fun. Its suppose to be fun
I think I worded this poorly. I didn't mean shrug it off like, pay less attention, I meant the people telling us it's just a game, calm down, why would anyone be mad or upset over a "game" etc.
It's true in a sense, but most agree sports fandom is being part of something bigger and it's easy to take personally the highs and lows.
I'm just about where you are right now. I don't think I can watch the rest of the series.
Funny, I still feel some guilt over that, like I'm not a true fan.

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05-04-2017, 08:54 AM
  #113
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Kuznetsov is trying to engage god mode. I see him now able to play with anyone, and have about the same success - mostly him being him. I am not afraid to break up 2 as we are now in desperation mode.

Nick has had a quiet series but know he probably has his hands full with defensive responsibilities.

Swap em. Give Kuz Oshie and tell him to cheat hard on draws. Who the **** cares if he gets kicked out. Give him Ovi because... Russia.

8 92 77 | Tre Kronor | Willy Eller Willy

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05-04-2017, 08:57 AM
  #114
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After a tweet last night saying that Ovi and Kuzya won't play at the Worlds, means maybe that Ovi's hurt, because otherwise I don't see him just chill at home while you have some hockey left in the season.

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05-04-2017, 08:58 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
Flipping Oshie and Wilson makes sense but it also kills Backstroms role. He'd be stuck with two guys that couldn't put the puck in the net, although I like the way Wilson has played the past few games. He's one of the few who actually seem like they give a damn
Good points. The first and third lines are doing an okay job at possessing the puck but they are getting no dangerous looks at all. Something needs to be done to change the chemistry of those two lines.

I'd also dump the 7D experiment now given Trotz's inability to manage the blue line properly. Nate Schmidt has been outstanding this postseason but in a game where the Capitals trailed throughout he only got 14 minutes at ES vs. Alzner's 13 minutes at ES. That is an absolutely unacceptable coaching decision. Alzner and Orpik should have been stapled to the bench minus PK duties. They aren't contributing enough offensively and it hurts the team.

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05-04-2017, 09:02 AM
  #116
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Good points. The first and third lines are doing an okay job at possessing the puck but they are getting no dangerous looks at all. Something needs to be done to change the chemistry of those two lines.

I'd also dump the 7D experiment now given Trotz's inability to manage the blue line properly. Nate Schmidt has been outstanding this postseason but in a game where the Capitals trailed throughout he only got 14 minutes at ES vs. Alzner's 13 minutes at ES. That is an absolutely unacceptable coaching decision. Alzner and Orpik should have been stapled to the bench minus PK duties. They aren't contributing enough offensively and it hurts the team.
Agreed. Those two looked bad last night. I actually thought that Shattenkirk-Schmidt pariring held heir own and was super dangerous in the offensive zone. They played smart together and the can skate like hell so I'd think about keeping them together

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05-04-2017, 09:03 AM
  #117
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For everyone creaming Ovechkin for fitness or anything else -- he's pretty obviously injured. He missed a few skates after the collision in R1, and he's already turned down the invite to the World Championships if eliminated, something he's NEVER done even with some somewhat-significant injuries in the past. Pretty easy to guess his knee is ****ed up.

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05-04-2017, 09:09 AM
  #118
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Not really any worse than Pete Peeters or Varly even. Except Peeters and Varly were not supposed to be better than Olie Kolzig.

Lets be honest. Complain all you want to about any of the skaters, but the 1st and 3rd goals should never have gone in and there are goals like that in each game they have lost. Its why they are losing. Lack of confidence in your goaltending effects every facet of your game.

It was the last thing I would have predicted. Holtby choking. There is really nothing left to believe in.
You seem to believe the only path to a SC is allowing 2 or fewer goals per game. Well, if that is the case we have no shot in hell.

We are not playing a defensive juggernaut by any means. Nor did we in Toronto. Despite a pretty good level of talent and experience on this team we have zero room for error. For whatever reason; effort confidence, lack of preparation (my belief). All point to inadequate coaching.

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05-04-2017, 09:10 AM
  #119
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I'm not looking for little excuses. The big picture is every team that wins Cups goes through adversity and overcomes injuries, demons, bad calls, bad bounces, etc. This franchise is satisfied with talking the talk all year and then letting "unfortunate" incidents or performances dictate their future. What if?

If Kuzy last year....if Holtby this year...if Ovechkin in certain games...if Bura... etc

IF.


"If" is not reality. If doesn't win championships. If is a postmortem that every team can perform when they fail to meet expectations.

WHEN this season is over we will see where they stand. IF they lose this round against a depleted Pens team while only losing Alzner for a few games then major changes should be made. That means bringing in either an established coach and/or taking a hard look at who we want to keep around.

And as a side note, in retrospect, I guess it should have been obvious that adding a coach who has never gotten out of the 2nd round to a team that has the same basic problem is nearly a foregone conclusion. I wanted Lavi like so many others but decided to give Trotz a chance. Last year I was patient. This year I said I'd be vigilant. I only saw a Cup team for that 6 week stretch in mid-season. I haven't seen them since. Whose fault is it?

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05-04-2017, 09:12 AM
  #120
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Ovi and Trotz, on Ovi's poor night:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovi
“I didn’t play my game at all tonight,” Ovechkin said. “I think, me personally, I have to play much better.”


“I think I didn’t control the puck well,” Ovechkin said. “You know, I make stupid decisions. Unfortunately, it happened, and we have to forget it and we have to move forward. Every game right now for us is [a Game 7], so we have to win three to move forward. I’m pretty sure we’re ready for that.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotz
“Our top guys tonight, I thought, weren’t as good as they needed to be,” Trotz said. “I didn’t think our top guys really stepped up today, which was very unfortunate for us.”

Asked specifically about Ovechkin’s play, Trotz didn’t call out his captain. “I would say our top players didn’t play as well as they need to be,” Trotz reiterated. “They need to be top players and step up right now.”
Not even sure what to make of all this. Leadership means showing up when you're needed, not just taking blame for your failures.

This Caps team is what it is. It won't beat the Pens 3 straight. It won't make it out of the second round again, and it won't ever improve with this core, this captain, and this coach.

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05-04-2017, 09:13 AM
  #121
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Its Ovy's knee. People not remember the Kadri hit to the knee?

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05-04-2017, 09:15 AM
  #122
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My final thoughts for now:

1. I don't think that they think they can win. I think they're still "trusting the process" and hoping that the bounces will go their way (spoiler: they won't).
2. I don't see any joy in their game. They look like they'd rather be any where else than in the pressure cooker that is the Stanley Cup playoffs.

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05-04-2017, 09:18 AM
  #123
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they *can* do it, they *might* do it, but after last night, i don't see them showing us that they *will* do it.

what's the most CAPS way to flame out?

dropping the next one and losing in 5 in this situation would be pretty embarrassing.

winning the next game, and then dropping in 6 would be kind of boring/anticlimactic.

pushing it to 7, getting our hopes up, and gaining credit from some for *almost* turning it around after the hole they dug for themselves does sound pretty devastatingly appropriate.

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05-04-2017, 09:20 AM
  #124
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Outside of the Willy hitting and 2GA inspired 10 minutes of looking good, we looked tired and worn out, disinterested and just sloppy. Credit Pitt for controling play and demoralizing us, but it almost looked like the effort on a RS back to back and the backup G in. Why try. We simply do not dictate (hitting aside), much more reactive.

Watching the Edmonton game afterwards, both teams had so much more energy, in all the time I watched.

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05-04-2017, 09:25 AM
  #125
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Quote:
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Agreed. Those two looked bad last night. I actually thought that Shattenkirk-Schmidt pariring held heir own and was super dangerous in the offensive zone. They played smart together and the can skate like hell so I'd think about keeping them together
They are a fine pairing together. With Crosby out all Barry or Reirdon have to do is not match that pairing with Malkin's line and they will be good together. Being at home next game should make that an easy task.

Barry will NEVER take Orpik out of the lineup under no circumstance ever

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