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The 2017 NHL Entry Draft: Part IV

View Poll Results: Ladies and Gentlemen, for all the marbles.
3. Gabriel Vilardi, C/LW [Windsor Spitfires, OHL] 26 19.40%
4. Miro Hieskanen, D [HIFK, Liiga] 82 61.19%
5. Casey Mittelstadt, C [Minnesota Golden Gophers, NCAA] 8 5.97%
6. Owen Tippett, RW [Mississauga Steelheads, OHL] 2 1.49%
7. Cale Makar, D [UMass Hitmen, NCAA] 3 2.24%
9. Cody Glass, C/RW [Portland Winterhawks, WHL] 8 5.97%
12. Timothy Liljegren, D [Rogle BK, SHL] 5 3.73%
Other[List Below] 0 0%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-06-2017, 05:34 PM
  #26
Vaslof
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To those who know about these things: If Vilardi was faster on the skates, would he be the consensus #1 pick, or would he still be ranked behind Patrick and Hischier?

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05-06-2017, 07:49 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Vaslof View Post
To those who know about these things: If Vilardi was faster on the skates, would he be the consensus #1 pick, or would he still be ranked behind Patrick and Hischier?
I think there'd be a real convo about it, he'd definitely be in the tier with them. He's just a shade below Patrick in other attributes but very close but then the health issues wouldn't be there. I think in the mix with the other 2 is fair.

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05-06-2017, 08:12 PM
  #28
Mystic MacK
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I know hindsight's always 20/20 and all of that, but I still can't believe we traded a 3rd for Eric Gelinas
Foresight was 20/20 on that one too. He was clearly suspect defensively prior to the trade, and didn't fit what the Avs needed in a D man anyway. Giving up a 3rd wasn't the end of the world, but giving it up for Gelinas never made sense.

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05-06-2017, 09:04 PM
  #29
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Foresight was 20/20 on that one too. He was clearly suspect defensively prior to the trade, and didn't fit what the Avs needed in a D man anyway. Giving up a 3rd wasn't the end of the world, but giving it up for Gelinas never made sense.
Worst pp in the NHL and worst defense in the NHL acquires the 2nd most productive PP defenseman in the NHL per 60 who was only 24 years old for a 3rd rounder. He was under contract, cost controlled and the Avs were gunning for the playoffs. It didn't work out very well but I'll never have an issue with the Avs making that move.

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05-06-2017, 09:21 PM
  #30
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Worst pp in the NHL and worst defense in the NHL acquires the 2nd most productive PP defenseman in the NHL per 60 who was only 24 years old for a 3rd rounder. He was under contract, cost controlled and the Avs were gunning for the playoffs. It didn't work out very well but I'll never have an issue with the Avs making that move.
I do believe Roy had designs to use him on the PP, but then he sustained a season-ending injury. It could have turned out differently, but like you, I don't have a problem with them attempting to remedy that situation.

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05-06-2017, 09:31 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
Worst pp in the NHL and worst defense in the NHL acquires the 2nd most productive PP defenseman in the NHL per 60 who was only 24 years old for a 3rd rounder. He was under contract, cost controlled and the Avs were gunning for the playoffs. It didn't work out very well but I'll never have an issue with the Avs making that move.
That's how misleading stats can be. Gelinas sucks, even on the PP. He's got a big shot, that's it. No brain to quarterback the play, no passing ability, and no mobility to rush the puck, or open up shooting lanes at the point.

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05-06-2017, 09:36 PM
  #32
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For some reason I thought it was a 4th, which was bad enough... 3rd is even worse.
The 4th is what they got back for Holden. Pretty sure that was always in their plans to replace Holden with Gelinas, and recoup the 3rd some way.

Not only can the Avs scouts not identify good defenseman. They couldn't identify that Gelinas was actually worse than Holden.

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05-06-2017, 09:36 PM
  #33
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His defining moment this season was definitely when he fired that shot wide and it broke the glass in Anaheim. Just a really selfish thing to do. Took the poor arena staff like 3 hours to cut the piece of glass, and Gelinas didn't even help.



Wonder if COL takes a gamble on Liljegren. Would rather a LHD, but who knows.

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05-06-2017, 09:45 PM
  #34
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Wonder if COL takes a gamble on Liljegren. Would rather a LHD, but who knows.
At this point, I think Makar has passed him as the sexy offensive defenseman in the draft. I still expect him to go top 10, but only with Heiskanen and Makar off the board.

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05-06-2017, 10:46 PM
  #35
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At this point, I think Makar has passed him as the sexy offensive defenseman in the draft. I still expect him to go top 10, but only with Heiskanen and Makar off the board.
I like Makar as well, but looking back on the gameplay from last season, Liljegren was so good. There's no way he just forgot how to play hockey. He came back too soon from mono, he even admitted that himself, and didn't have much of a season at all. Not sure you can dismiss the talent here. He's a really good hockey player.

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05-06-2017, 10:53 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mystic MacK View Post
The 4th is what they got back for Holden. Pretty sure that was always in their plans to replace Holden with Gelinas, and recoup the 3rd some way.

Not only can the Avs scouts not identify good defenseman. They couldn't identify that Gelinas was actually worse than Holden.
Yeah our scouts freaking stink.

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05-07-2017, 12:21 AM
  #37
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At this point, I think Makar has passed him as the sexy offensive defenseman in the draft. I still expect him to go top 10, but only with Heiskanen and Makar off the board.
I think it's going to be between Liljegren and Heiskanen. Wouldn't even be surprised if AVS draft Liljegren at 4.

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05-07-2017, 12:59 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic MacK View Post
Foresight was 20/20 on that one too. He was clearly suspect defensively prior to the trade, and didn't fit what the Avs needed in a D man anyway. Giving up a 3rd wasn't the end of the world, but giving it up for Gelinas never made sense.
Yup, it should've been obvious to anyone watching him for 5 minutes this guy wasn't an NHLer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic MacK View Post
The 4th is what they got back for Holden. Pretty sure that was always in their plans to replace Holden with Gelinas, and recoup the 3rd some way.

Not only can the Avs scouts not identify good defenseman. They couldn't identify that Gelinas was actually worse than Holden.
I think our pro scouts are are a huge problem... the revolving door of crap from the FA is not an accident Kobasew, Colborne, Comeau, Iggy, FB, Martinsen, Weircoch, BourqueX2 etc. However the bigger issue is development which is why the likes of Duchene and Mackinnon didn't fulfill their full potential.

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05-07-2017, 08:04 AM
  #39
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That's how misleading stats can be. Gelinas sucks, even on the PP. He's got a big shot, that's it. No brain to quarterback the play, no passing ability, and no mobility to rush the puck, or open up shooting lanes at the point.
That's just wrong though. Only a quarter of his PP points were goals. He's always done a good job of holding the zone and moving the puck in the ozone. Not very good in transition but great once the puck was already in. He was always a really good PP player and a pretty poor ES player. Even dating back to his days in Maine he wasn't a good Es player.

I've watched him. I'm not just using stats. They aren't misleading. They are actually very accurate in explaining what Eric Gelinas is. Don't try to downgrade it because you never saw an opportunity to see his one strength in an Avs jersey. Doesn't mean it isn't there.

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05-07-2017, 08:53 AM
  #40
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The more I think about it, the more I think that the Avs are unlikely to draft a defenseman as high as selection number four. If they passed last year on Chychrun, McAvoy, Bean, Fabbro, etc. last year at pick number ten, I don't see them drafting Heiskanen or Makar at number four this year.

Based on draft history, I don't think the Avs organization feels particularly comfortable identifying, evaluating, and developing defensive talent. This may be at least part of the reason why Sakic would look to target a young defenseman or defensive prospect from another organization in a Duchene and/or Landeskog trade. They hope to tap into the talents of another organization in terms of evaluation and development.

I do believe that the Avs scouts do a nice job (and have historically) evaluating skilled forward prospects. I am expecting them to go down that path again this draft.

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05-07-2017, 09:10 AM
  #41
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The more I think about it, the more I think that the Avs are unlikely to draft a defenseman as high as selection number four. If they passed last year on Chychrun, McAvoy, Bean, Fabbro, etc. last year at pick number ten, I don't see them drafting Heiskanen or Makar at number four this year.

Based on draft history, I don't think the Avs organization feels particularly comfortable identifying, evaluating, and developing defensive talent. This may be at least part of the reason why Sakic would look to target a young defenseman or defensive prospect from another organization in a Duchene and/or Landeskog trade. They hope to tap into the talents of another organization in terms of evaluation and development.

I do believe that the Avs scouts do a nice job (and have historically) evaluating skilled forward prospects. I am expecting them to go down that path again this draft.
Jost was ranked higher than the D mentioned and believe he will be better than the players mentioned drafted below him. The previous year, they traded the 2nd round pick to SJ (drafted Roy out with a very serious leg injury) which would have been have could have been McAvoy for 3 picks (Greer, Meloche and Morrison). Fairly good return in managing their pick.

Scouting and drafting has really improved the last few years, the problems are from before when players taking 3-4 years to be ready which has left the cupboards empty for call ups.


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05-07-2017, 09:30 AM
  #42
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Jost was ranked number 11 in McKenzie's final rankings last year and Logan Brown was ranked number 10. They essentially flipped in the final draft, but the script through the first 11 picks was remarkably similar to McKenzie's list (obviously based on scouts so it should be accurate). Jake Bean (12th - McKenzie), Chychrun (13th - McKenzie), McAvoy (14th-McKenzie), and Fabbro (16th - McKenzie) all seemed fall close to McKenzie's final rankings. The Avs may simply stick with the BPA philosophy strictly, which really should be the approach IMO. I think it may also highlight that forwards tend to be selected at a higher rate than defenseman at the top of the draft, unless the defensive prospect appears to be a sure bet. It will be interesting to see McKenzie's final list. If it stays Vilardi/Heiskanen at 3/4, it may suggest that the Avs will take a stab at Heiskanen if he is still available.

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05-07-2017, 10:29 AM
  #43
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I'm hoping for Makar if we pick D. I think it'll only happen if Dallas picks Heiskanen, though then we'd pass on Vilardi.. Ugh. Can we just have all the picks?

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05-07-2017, 11:24 AM
  #44
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I'm hoping for one of either Heiskanen or Mittlestadt for us, but I am higher on Mittlestadt than most.

Although I'd be good with Vilardi or Glass too.

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05-07-2017, 11:24 AM
  #45
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Heiskanen or Vilardi are both equal choices. Concerns can be said for both, but the future regardless of the end result last year looks extremely bright.

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05-07-2017, 12:18 PM
  #46
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Hampus Lindholm and OEL are 2 dmen that jumped near the top 5 due to hype at the very end of the season, similarly to Heiskanen.

I'm looking at 2012 rankings and Lindholm was ranked #10-#20 all year...ended up 6th OA. In fact, he didn't even make MacKenzie's top 30 list at the beginning of the year.

It's even more important because this year's draft is often compared to 2012's for top talent and depth so big jumps and big drops at the end of the year are to take in consideration because it mattered a lot in 2012.

Also, Grigs was ranked #3 in Sept 2011 and dropped to #12 on draft day.

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05-07-2017, 02:35 PM
  #47
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I just hope the Avs have been scouting the right guys. Wouldn't even mind Liljegren at 4 if the Avs take a gamble on him. He definitely possesses the skill to be a 1D at the next level.



One of the most important attributes I look for in a defenseman, is skating, and Liljegren is an excellent skater. His gap control needs work, and he over commits to break up plays, but the ability is there, he can be taught. Offense is already at a high level.

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05-07-2017, 02:39 PM
  #48
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I just hope the Avs have been scouting the right guys. Wouldn't even mind Liljegren at 4 if the Avs take a gamble on him. He definitely possesses the skill to be a 1D at the next level.

Liljegren might be the better D, just not at 4. He could be had a little lower in the Top 10. If the AVs could swing a downgrade for more picks, he would be an excellent choice.

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05-07-2017, 02:43 PM
  #49
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Liljegren might be the better D, just not at 4. He could be had a little lower in the Top 10. If the AVs could swing a downgrade for more picks, he would be an excellent choice.
I'm not convinced though. Liljegren was incredible last season, with Arizona and Buffalo needing D, I'd be shocked if he made it past 8.

Heiskanen is the clear #1 right now, to me at least, but #2 is still Liljegren. For realistic choices at #4, I'd personally go:

Heiskanen, Liljegren, Vilardi, Glass, Mittelstadt, Makar in that order.

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05-07-2017, 03:04 PM
  #50
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Liljegren shift by shift-https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comme..._linköping_hc/

Someone on the prospect board put together 6 games worth of shifts for Vilardi as well, for those who haven't notice.

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