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The 2017 NHL Entry Draft: Part IV

View Poll Results: Ladies and Gentlemen, for all the marbles.
3. Gabriel Vilardi, C/LW [Windsor Spitfires, OHL] 26 19.40%
4. Miro Hieskanen, D [HIFK, Liiga] 82 61.19%
5. Casey Mittelstadt, C [Minnesota Golden Gophers, NCAA] 8 5.97%
6. Owen Tippett, RW [Mississauga Steelheads, OHL] 2 1.49%
7. Cale Makar, D [UMass Hitmen, NCAA] 3 2.24%
9. Cody Glass, C/RW [Portland Winterhawks, WHL] 8 5.97%
12. Timothy Liljegren, D [Rogle BK, SHL] 5 3.73%
Other[List Below] 0 0%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-08-2017, 11:43 AM
  #76
The Abusement Park
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma View Post
JetsAlternate put together this awesome shift-by-shift of multiple games for Vilardi. He included good games and bad games to give people a good look.



He's still the guy I want the most. I think he's got that potential to be a Benn/Getzlaf/Stone type. Just a big guy, who likes to play big, but also has good hockey smarts and skills. His skating needs work, but that's one area the Avs have actually done good work in.
Can't disagree with you, Vilardi looks really good. If we pick Heiskanen, Vilardi, or Glass at #4 I'll be a happy camper.

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05-08-2017, 12:16 PM
  #77
Nalens Oga
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
On the skating subject... if we are confident the Avs can fix that. They should find a way to draft Jason Robertson. I really doubt he slides to 32, but late teens is easily possible.
Other teams can afford to take on projects, we cannot. There are enough players with good skating to not have to, we're slow enough as is.

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05-08-2017, 12:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
You simply do not take a player like Makar in the top 10 in any draft, ever, based on what he's doing in the AJHL.

If he was doing this in the WHL or in the NCAA, it'd be a much different story but the AJHL just isn't a very good league. There's a reason why players don't get picked from the AJHL in the 1st round and are rarely picked in any round whatsoever.

He may well turn out to be Erik Karlsson, who knows. But I don't want to waste a high pick on him.
Maker is someone you take #15-#22 rather than top 10. Unless you have a team full of relatively non offensive minded D men, in which case he could potentially help ignite your offense and help boost scoring from the blue line.

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05-08-2017, 12:46 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Nalens Oga View Post
Other teams can afford to take on projects, we cannot. There are enough players with good skating to not have to, we're slow enough as is.
Nobody we pick will be of immediate help to the team. So they're all "projects" in the strictest sense of the word.

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05-08-2017, 12:52 PM
  #80
henchman24
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Originally Posted by Nalens Oga View Post
Other teams can afford to take on projects, we cannot. There are enough players with good skating to not have to, we're slow enough as is.
All players past the top ~9-13ish this year are projects (even a lot of them are projects). Robertson's skating isn't slow, it is just painfully awkward and causes him to tire out at the end of shifts... making his skating even worse. Outside of that, he is insanely productive and has a lot of traits the scouts love. Outside of Tippett, Robertson might be the purest goal scorer in the draft.

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05-08-2017, 04:19 PM
  #81
tigervixxxen
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Originally Posted by Nalens Oga View Post
Other teams can afford to take on projects, we cannot. There are enough players with good skating to not have to, we're slow enough as is.
Nvm, thought you were referring to something else.

Yeah everyone is a project to a degree. Skating really isn't the developmental issue I'd really worry about taking on though.


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05-08-2017, 04:24 PM
  #82
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Has anyone else watched this Liljegren video (I felt like I was watching a rap award show or something with all the "lil"s in the game)? I'm wondering if this was a typical game for him. Multiple bad mistakes leading to scoring chances and/or goals against. Great skater though.
Yes. Now it was when he returned and it was in the SHL so not the best situation for him to look good but the same type of things keep plaguing him. At the U18 he was doing the same things until the final 2 games where he simplified his game and looked better. One comment I read that makes sense is do you want him to play a simple game because that's not why you go out and get a guy with a skillset he has. I think it will be much better for him to go to a good developmental system and someplace where they can give him time because he's going to need it.

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05-08-2017, 04:27 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
Yes. Now it was when he returned and it was in the SHL so not the best situation for him to look good but the same type of things keep plaguing him. At the U18 he was doing the same things until the final 2 games where he simplified his game and looked better. One comment I read that makes sense is do you want him to play a simple game because that's not why you go out and get a guy with a skillset he has. I think it will be much better for him to go to a good developmental system and someplace where they can give him time because he's going to need it.
So Nashville. Perfect. Just what they need.

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05-08-2017, 04:30 PM
  #84
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I appreciate it. I definitely have him behind the other Dmen then.

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05-08-2017, 06:19 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Nalens Oga View Post
Other teams can afford to take on projects, we cannot. There are enough players with good skating to not have to, we're slow enough as is.
Who in this draft isn't a project in some way? Every player in this draft has flaws somewhere. Obviously some players are bigger projects than others but still.

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05-08-2017, 08:07 PM
  #86
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Is Makar going WHL or NCAA for next year?

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05-08-2017, 08:10 PM
  #87
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Is Makar going WHL or NCAA for next year?
We'll see, the team that picks him might have a say in it. I guess the plan is NCAA but I wouldn't be surprised if he changes that plan.

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05-08-2017, 10:17 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Here's a free look at Heiskanen's profile for the next 24 hours - lots of comments from NHL scouts:

https://recrutes.ca/profile/miro-heiskanen/
Some interesting quotes from scouts, including one from October that should satiate the "but he came out of nowhere to be ranked this high" crowd.


Last edited by cgf: 05-08-2017 at 10:26 PM.
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05-08-2017, 10:56 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Some interesting quotes from scouts, including one from October that should satiate the "but he came out of nowhere to be ranked this high" crowd.
It's important to note that the rankings that everybody looks at are aggregates. A guy ranked at 12 could have a couple of people who are very high on him, but are balanced out in the averages by people who by and large view him lower. Those scouts who really liked him to begin with end up being ahead of the curve, when other scouts start to get really excited, which pushes him up the scouting list, which gets more people to take a closer look, and they start ranking him higher. The idea that Heiskanen is all hype is missing the larger picture. Add in the fact that this draft is much more volatile than years past and you can expect things like this to happen.

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05-09-2017, 12:34 AM
  #90
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Very interesting rankings including advanced stats from CHL players. If you believe in advanced stats then Rasmussen is a no-no!

Is dman Markus Phillips a possibility for us at #32? Dude is #4 in the whole CHL for advanced stats. Suzuki is more than impressive but won't pass the 1st round.



Last edited by Balthazar: 05-09-2017 at 12:40 AM.
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05-09-2017, 12:48 AM
  #91
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Isn't Lind the second best on the list? Anyway, I have mixed feelings on these models even if they are food for thought. At the end of the day they are generally a measure of age and primary points. I'm not super comfortable using primary points in CHL models because the assists are reported inaccurately quite often. Then there's keeping in mind who plays on a good team vs who doesn't, you can generally pick it out on that list. The author even says Owen Sound had the best 5v5 production so no shock their players are listed high. At some point the old potato model comes up, just pick the guy with the highest points. Maybe there's some truth to that or at least you'd be more right than wrong. I personally like goals for defensemen as a stat I look at. There's not a lot of D that break 10 goals, even in junior.

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05-09-2017, 04:00 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Some interesting quotes from scouts, including one from October that should satiate the "but he came out of nowhere to be ranked this high" crowd.
I don't mean to sound dramatic, but man...it's gut-wrenching to think that a few ping pong balls could be the reason the Avs don't draft their first premier defenseman in what feels like forever.

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05-09-2017, 08:40 AM
  #93
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I really do like Phillips as a defensemen... a shorter, but stockier Bigras with a touch less upside basically. I wouldn't probably take him at 32, but moving back into the late 40s, early 50s he starts being a good pick. The advanced stats part... meh. Junior leagues are so incredibly inaccurate with various stats that they are less useful than they are in the NHL (where they are pretty debatable still).

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05-09-2017, 09:42 AM
  #94
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I've got a random question for those who have been following the 2017 prospects way closer than I have. Assuming we're getting one of Vilardi/Heiskanen/Mittelstadt/Glass does that player immediately become our best prospect, or does Jost still own that title? (IMO Rantanen and Z aren't prospects anymore).

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05-09-2017, 09:47 AM
  #95
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Everybody is going to vary a bit on that depending on preferences. For me yes (maybe outside of Heiskanen since I don't know where to rate him).

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05-09-2017, 09:55 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ararana View Post
I've got a random question for those who have been following the 2017 prospects way closer than I have. Assuming we're getting one of Vilardi/Heiskanen/Mittelstadt/Glass does that player immediately become our best prospect, or does Jost still own that title? (IMO Rantanen and Z aren't prospects anymore).
Yes they would

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05-09-2017, 10:33 AM
  #97
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I'm not sure whats the avs management drafting style(1st pick is usually BPA and second might be the need for certain position?), but assuming that with our first two picks we would get 1dman and 1 forward. So if we would pick Heiskanen with our first then who is the best available forward in the second round and vise versa if we get forward with our first?

(Not that this scenario will happen, just wondering who is the best dmen and forward in the 31 pick area)

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05-09-2017, 10:33 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ararana View Post
I've got a random question for those who have been following the 2017 prospects way closer than I have. Assuming we're getting one of Vilardi/Heiskanen/Mittelstadt/Glass does that player immediately become our best prospect, or does Jost still own that title? (IMO Rantanen and Z aren't prospects anymore).
I think I'd put any of them on par with Jost. If anything I'd lean towards Jost as the better prospect.

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05-09-2017, 11:06 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ararana View Post
I've got a random question for those who have been following the 2017 prospects way closer than I have. Assuming we're getting one of Vilardi/Heiskanen/Mittelstadt/Glass does that player immediately become our best prospect, or does Jost still own that title? (IMO Rantanen and Z aren't prospects anymore).
I'm no expert, but I would put Jost slightly ahead due to having a great year. Coming into each of their drafts I would say Mikko and Jost were equal to these guys, but I had Mikko at #5 and Jost at #6, in drafts with multiple super hyped prospects at the top and a Dman or 2 who, to me, are a level above Heiskanen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyFIN View Post
I'm not sure whats the avs management drafting style(1st pick is usually BPA and second might be the need for certain position?), but assuming that with our first two picks we would get 1dman and 1 forward. So if we would pick Heiskanen with our first then who is the best available forward in the second round and vise versa if we get forward with our first?

(Not that this scenario will happen, just wondering who is the best dmen and forward in the 31 pick area)
I really hope we go with a goalie there.

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05-09-2017, 11:11 AM
  #100
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I never understand draft hype. All year I've heard about how no one is standing out, no franchise players available, and then the closer we get we start hearing that this guy reminds scouts of Jamie Benn, or that guy reminds scouts of Nick Lidstrom, or Scott Niedermayer. How are those not franchise players? Is there a chance we get a serious gem out of an underwhelming draft?

Let's just take Vilardi and have all the players named Gabriel

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