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2017 Draft discussion- Sabres pick 8th. Part 2

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05-05-2017, 05:32 AM
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1972
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2017 Draft discussion- Sabres pick 8th. Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
Grant McCagg is extremely hyperbolic, you need to take his opinion with a grain of salt.



MOD EDIT: continued from here http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...#post131875129


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05-05-2017, 07:21 AM
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makeitburn
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Average sized defense jump up the draft predictions almost every year. If defense ever drop it's because their size propped up their rating too high and teams aren't getting as fooled by that anymore.

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05-05-2017, 07:49 AM
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Who do you guys think the Sabres could acquire if they traded the 8th pick straight up for a D-man? Is that a possibility or unrealistic?

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05-05-2017, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Bonlarvis View Post
Who do you guys think the Sabres could acquire if they traded the 8th pick straight up for a D-man? Is that a possibility or unrealistic?
I could see Minny and Anaheim possibly biting purely due to the expansion draft (Dumba, Fowler, Vatanen, Brodin at a stretch). However both teams are ready to compete or in their prime so not sure how much NHL D for pick interests them. I also think we need good pipeline of talent on ELCs in next few years, so that we dont have to trade away assets like KO or ROR for cap reasons below their market value. So I am not keen at all on trading that pick in the first place.

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05-05-2017, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bonlarvis View Post
Who do you guys think the Sabres could acquire if they traded the 8th pick straight up for a D-man? Is that a possibility or unrealistic?
If you ask on the trade board, they will laugh and say the 2017 Draft class stinks.

The big wild card there will be the expansion draft and teams like Minnesota, Anaheim, Columbus and perhaps others that will have a tough decision with regards to protecting their D.

That could allow a decent second pairing D to be available for the 8th pick. But, that is all pure speculation.

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05-05-2017, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
If you ask on the trade board, they will laugh and say the 2017 Draft class stinks.

The big wild card there will be the expansion draft and teams like Minnesota, Anaheim, Columbus and perhaps others that will have a tough decision with regards to protecting their D.

That could allow a decent second pairing D to be available for the 8th pick. But, that is all pure speculation.
It has to be available, right? One of those teams knows they will lose a good top 4 defender. How could they possibly refuse to deal a guy for a high pick vs losing them for free.

Somebody will get a leddy/boychuk type, hopefully it's us.

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05-05-2017, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonlarvis View Post
Who do you guys think the Sabres could acquire if they traded the 8th pick straight up for a D-man? Is that a possibility or unrealistic?
Let's keep rooting for Anaheim to win the cup... because 8th overall for Fowler is a done deal if they do.

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05-05-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bonlarvis View Post
Who do you guys think the Sabres could acquire if they traded the 8th pick straight up for a D-man? Is that a possibility or unrealistic?
This is the 8th pick board and not the trade board, but my biggest fear (which is unreasonable, I suppose) is if we trade 8OA for a defenseman, that guy will fall victim to the "Lehner Effect", whereas no matter how well he plays, or how he personally had nothing to do with the pick for which he was traded, a few select guys will constantly complain we paid too much and then incessantly bring up who we COULD have drafted with 8OA instead of getting him.
This effect never goes away and only gets worse as the years go by and the prospects turn into great NHL'ers. Ugh

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05-05-2017, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makeitburn View Post
Average sized defense jump up the draft predictions almost every year. If defense ever drop it's because their size propped up their rating too high and teams aren't getting as fooled by that anymore.
Or their physical tools aren't sufficient to cover for deficits in Hockey IQ or commitment ( the David Cooper effect if you will).

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05-05-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by sabrebuild View Post
It has to be available, right? One of those teams knows they will lose a good top 4 defender. How could they possibly refuse to deal a guy for a high pick vs losing them for free.

Somebody will get a leddy/boychuk type, hopefully it's us.
They could get a better deal from someone else. I'd imagine teams like Anaheim would want a young, exempt, forward rather than 8 OA. Not to say it wouldn't happen -- I happen to think 8 would be extremely good value if a team is going to lose one of them.

I'm of the thinking there are a couple Leddy/Boychuk trades every year. I hope it is us. The Sabres tried to make that trade last year with Kulikov but we know the injury ruined his season.

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05-05-2017, 11:36 AM
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Please stop posting trade ideas in this thread. It is SPECIFICALLY about drafting. Not trading. Thanks.

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05-05-2017, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Please stop posting trade ideas in this thread. It is SPECIFICALLY about drafting. Not trading. Thanks.
Endorsing this. Please keep trade ideas/discussion in the roster speculation thread. This thread is for talking about draft eligible players.

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05-05-2017, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Please stop posting trade ideas in this thread. It is SPECIFICALLY about drafting. Not trading. Thanks.
#8 and #37 for #5

Assume 1 - 4 is Nico, Patrick, Villardi, Heiskanen

Would Vancouver move down 4 spots?
Maybe they have Glass, Middlestadt, Tippett, Necas all rated equally.
We get Makar. They still have a choice of 2 of those 4.

This is still about drafting.

Maybe we toss in a near NHL ready forward prospect?

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05-05-2017, 11:54 AM
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Trade ups for picks in the top 10 of the NHL Draft are exceedingly rare.

I think it has been about a decade since a deal like that happened in the top 5 to 10 picks.

I look that stuff up every year. But, I think I may be too lazy this time around.

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05-05-2017, 11:59 AM
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When people saying the 2017 draft class stinks, I don't think they are referring to the players being far inferior to other years, maybe at the top of the draft compared to the last 3 but I feel it more has to do with players just not being NHL ready and could be 2 years or more out.

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05-05-2017, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
#8 and #37 for #5

Assume 1 - 4 is Nico, Patrick, Villardi, Heiskanen

Would Vancouver move down 4 spots?
Maybe they have Glass, Middlestadt, Tippett, Necas all rated equally.
We get Makar. They still have a choice of 2 of those 4.

This is still about drafting.

Maybe we toss in a near NHL ready forward prospect?
So this is the way to get Makar? I'm down. I like both Makar and Heiskanen both, so whichever at #5 would be great with me.

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05-05-2017, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre the Win View Post
When people saying the 2017 draft class stinks, I don't think they are referring to the players being far inferior to other years, maybe at the top of the draft compared to the last 3 but I feel it more has to do with players just not being NHL ready and could be 2 years or more out.
Basically. Just much less certainty this year. There will be some stars chosen in the late first/early second, I bet. This is a good draft for the playoff teams to find gems in the end-of-round scraps.

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05-05-2017, 03:41 PM
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What about Ullmark & #8 for Lehtonen and #3. Take on the cap dump to move up and Draft Makar/Heiskanen (whomever you have on top, I feel it's pretty even right now).

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05-05-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
What about Ullmark & #8 for Lehtonen and #3. Take on the cap dump to move up and Draft Makar/Heiskanen (whomever you have on top, I feel it's pretty even right now).
Don't think Dallas does this and we would be foolish to turn it down IMO.

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05-06-2017, 01:48 AM
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Yeah Dallas isn't moving out of the top D prospect available just to dump Lehtonens contract. There is only one year left on the deal. Hell, I'd take Lehtonen and give Dallas #37+MIN 2nd+#68 on top of 8 to move to #3 for Heiskanen.

And does anyone else find it crazy that literally the top 5 forward prospects in this draft, Patrick, Hischier, Vilardi, Glass and Mittelstadt are all centers?!! Damn, where was this type of draft during our Connolly/Roy years as our 1 and 2C

Not that we picked in the top 10 during those years anyway but we needed centers so badly for about 6 years after losing the co Caps that we drafted Girgs and actually had him start with the big club. I think he would have busted/disappointed regardless but him not spending 1-2 full seasons in the Q definitely hurt his development.

Back to the current draft, if the following players are all gone who do you target?

Patrick, Hischier, Vilardi, Mittelstadt, Makar, Heiskanen and Liljegren. I think it's very possible with Dallas and Colorado needing D and possibly Vancouver/Arizona taking D that all 3 of Heiskanen, Makar and Liljegren all gone by #8. This is also assuming that no trade for a proven D is available. If those 7 are gone then I am targeting Glass or Tippett for our pick. I'd probably target Tippett due to him being the best natural winger prospect along with the fact he has 30 goal potential in the NHL but could you imagine us taking Glass?

Eichel-RoR-Reinhart-Glass obviously Reinhart or Glass would be a full time winger if that's the case but that's just an insane center pipeline, not to mention still having Girgs and Larsson. If we can't get one of the big 3 D then I am totally happy with Tippett or Glass as the pick. If we do get Glass then that makes a Reinhart for Hanifin move more palatable.

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05-06-2017, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
Yeah Dallas isn't moving out of the top D prospect available just to dump Lehtonens contract. There is only one year left on the deal. Hell, I'd take Lehtonen and give Dallas #37+MIN 2nd+#68 on top of 8 to move to #3 for Heiskanen.

And does anyone else find it crazy that literally the top 5 forward prospects in this draft, Patrick, Hischier, Vilardi, Glass and Mittelstadt are all centers?!! Damn, where was this type of draft during our Connolly/Roy years as our 1 and 2C

Not that we picked in the top 10 during those years anyway but we needed centers so badly for about 6 years after losing the co Caps that we drafted Girgs and actually had him start with the big club. I think he would have busted/disappointed regardless but him not spending 1-2 full seasons in the Q definitely hurt his development.

Back to the current draft, if the following players are all gone who do you target?

Patrick, Hischier, Vilardi, Mittelstadt, Makar, Heiskanen and Liljegren. I think it's very possible with Dallas and Colorado needing D and possibly Vancouver/Arizona taking D that all 3 of Heiskanen, Makar and Liljegren all gone by #8. This is also assuming that no trade for a proven D is available. If those 7 are gone then I am targeting Glass or Tippett for our pick. I'd probably target Tippett due to him being the best natural winger prospect along with the fact he has 30 goal potential in the NHL but could you imagine us taking Glass?

Eichel-RoR-Reinhart-Glass obviously Reinhart or Glass would be a full time winger if that's the case but that's just an insane center pipeline, not to mention still having Girgs and Larsson. If we can't get one of the big 3 D then I am totally happy with Tippett or Glass as the pick. If we do get Glass then that makes a Reinhart for Hanifin move more palatable.
I'd probably take Valimaki and be done. Sometimes you gotta build up specific positions and this organization needs talent and depth on defense more than anything.

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05-06-2017, 06:34 AM
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I'd probably take Valimaki and be done. Sometimes you gotta build up specific positions and this organization needs talent and depth on defense more than anything.
Eh, like we have seen the last 7 years we go through cycles. We were literally bone dry on quality centers and now we own 3 #1Cs or soon to be 1Cs. Along with 2 solid bottom 6 centers in Girgs and Larsson. Then just a few years ago we had Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, Myers, McCabe and McNabb and we thought we were going to own the leagues best D 1-6. Now our D is one of the leagues worst and only Risto and McCabe are left from that group of 6. That just shows you must go BPA at the draft at least with your first round pick every single time.

Looking into the draft Valimaki would definitely be a pretty large reach, and I don't think we can pass on Glass, Tippett, Peterssen or Necas to take the #4 D in that draft who is projected to go in the late teens/early 20s in quite a few mocks. Now if we can trade down and pick up a 2nd in 2018 or a decent prospect and trade down to the 15 range then yes I'd be fine with taking Valimaki or Foote there, but at #8 we can't reach for a D there when there is the best winger prospect in the draft in Tippett who has 30 goal potential, or Glass who sounds like a bigger version of Reinhart in terms of intelligence, Petterssen who looks like his game just oozes offense or Necas, an 18 year old who is playing with men in the Czech Republic and holding his own. But I respect your opinion and wouldn't be too upset with the move, if the new GM feels the gap isn't that large between Valimaki or Foote and the remaining top forwards in Tippett, Glass, Necas or Petterssen then I'll trust the GMs judgement and be behind the pick.

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05-06-2017, 07:42 AM
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Eh, like we have seen the last 7 years we go through cycles. We were literally bone dry on quality centers and now we own 3 #1Cs or soon to be 1Cs. Along with 2 solid bottom 6 centers in Girgs and Larsson. Then just a few years ago we had Ristolainen, Zadorov, Pysyk, Myers, McCabe and McNabb and we thought we were going to own the leagues best D 1-6. Now our D is one of the leagues worst and only Risto and McCabe are left from that group of 6. That just shows you must go BPA at the draft at least with your first round pick every single time.

Looking into the draft Valimaki would definitely be a pretty large reach, and I don't think we can pass on Glass, Tippett, Peterssen or Necas to take the #4 D in that draft who is projected to go in the late teens/early 20s in quite a few mocks. Now if we can trade down and pick up a 2nd in 2018 or a decent prospect and trade down to the 15 range then yes I'd be fine with taking Valimaki or Foote there, but at #8 we can't reach for a D there when there is the best winger prospect in the draft in Tippett who has 30 goal potential, or Glass who sounds like a bigger version of Reinhart in terms of intelligence, Petterssen who looks like his game just oozes offense or Necas, an 18 year old who is playing with men in the Czech Republic and holding his own. But I respect your opinion and wouldn't be too upset with the move, if the new GM feels the gap isn't that large between Valimaki or Foote and the remaining top forwards in Tippett, Glass, Necas or Petterssen then I'll trust the GMs judgement and be behind the pick.
Valimaki is not a reach at 8. Listen to literally any draft analyst, and they'll tell you that after the top 2, there is very little separation between about 20 guys.

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05-06-2017, 07:51 AM
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Valimaki is not a reach at 8. Listen to literally any draft analyst, and they'll tell you that after the top 2, there is very little separation between about 20 guys.
Yep. It's going to be a lot of scout preference in that tier.

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05-06-2017, 07:57 AM
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If there isn't some top prospect slipping to 8th, I'd be pretty open to trading down to the 12 range to get Valimaki. I quite like what little I have seen of him. Maybe if the add is an upgrade on our secondary prospects so we ship one the other way and we get a some young upgrade, that would work for me.

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