HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2017 Draft discussion- Sabres pick 8th. Part 2

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-19-2017, 12:50 PM
  #776
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,278
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Because Makar is the best player in the draft.

Because getting Bo Horvat and Jacob Trouba would be great... but getting Erik Karlsson would be franchise altering.
You think he's going to be as good as Erik Karlsson? I think that's pretty lofty expectations and would put him in the class as a generational talent. Are you certain he isn't Kevin Shattenkirk? (I am not disagreeing just curious)

1972 is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:07 PM
  #777
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
You think he's going to be as good as Erik Karlsson? I think that's pretty lofty expectations and would put him in the class as a generational talent. Are you certain he isn't Kevin Shattenkirk? (I am not disagreeing just curious)
No. I'm not certain at all. Far from it. But I'm willing to take that risk, because the potential to be Erik karlsson is incredibly rare.

Jame is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:08 PM
  #778
Reddawg
Registered User
 
Reddawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: Scotland
Posts: 3,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
No. I'm not certain at all. Far from it. But I'm willing to take that risk, because the potential to be Erik karlsson is incredibly rare.
I watch Antipin skate, stickhandle and operate in the offensive zone and quietly wonder if we already sniped another Karlsson.

Reddawg is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:09 PM
  #779
N.Y. Orangeman
Coyotes Fan
 
N.Y. Orangeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post


"Liljegren entered the season as the consensus top rearguard available in the 2017 class. A battle with mononucleosis set him back, and he didn't meet expectations as a result. He is essentially the 2017 version of Jakob Chychrun, an immensely skilled athlete that was so scrutinized for having poor hockey sense that he fell all the way to 17th overall in the 2016 draft.

The bottom line is that all of the raw tools are in place, from his swift, agile skating to the way he thinks the game with a pure transitional mindset. If Liljegren gets the puck in space, look out. With continued coaching, he's the type of player that will thrive when placed among other uber-skilled peers.

While opinions are all over the board on where he he will ultimately land come draft day, I believe that Liljegren cannot be passed on by Buffalo if Botterill and Housley are truly the right people for their respective positions. Development. Development. Development. You're not drafting for today. You're drafting for tomorrow
.

It may take a bit of patience, but Liljegren may end up being a gem with upside rivaling that of Makar, if he understands his path."

I don't believe I've ever seen Bakes as definitive as this (outside of the easy ones like Eichel and Reinhart).

N.Y. Orangeman is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:10 PM
  #780
Aladyyn
eyes up
 
Aladyyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Czech Republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 7,095
vCash: 500
I'm going to be disappointed if we end up drafting at #8. It's a terrible spot for us.

Aladyyn is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:17 PM
  #781
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddawg View Post
I guess Botts&Co would have to be as equally sure of Makar as you are in order to think about making a deal like that. I'd be a whole lot more comfortable if we could somehow get a second 1st round pick from someone before trading away 8 and taking a home-run swing at 3.

If Makar turns into Karlsson, everyone is a genius and the franchise thrives. If he turns into nothing or not much, then we scrapped two of our best trade pieces on the latest Sabres 1st round fiasco. Which would be just as franchise-changing, just in the wrong direction.
Why do you have to be certain?

Are you certain Casey Mittelstadt is going to be a very good NHLer?

Are you certain that Tippett is going to be significantly better than Drew Stafford?

All picks are risks... Forwards are safer... no doubt. But what Makar has the potential to be is the rarest of commodities.

Jame is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:24 PM
  #782
sabrebuild
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddawg View Post
I guess Botts&Co would have to be as equally sure of Makar as you are in order to think about making a deal like that. I'd be a whole lot more comfortable if we could somehow get a second 1st round pick from someone before trading away 8 and taking a home-run swing at 3.

If Makar turns into Karlsson, everyone is a genius and the franchise thrives. If he turns into nothing or not much, then we scrapped two of our best trade pieces on the latest Sabres 1st round fiasco. Which would be just as franchise-changing, just in the wrong direction.
Yup. It's too much risk in my book. But I have only watched makars highlight package. Perhaps if I watched several games I could believe.

sabrebuild is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:25 PM
  #783
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,278
vCash: 50
I agree with Bakes, people are sleeping on Liljegren just like they did with Chychrun. That package of skill and skating is drool worthy.

1972 is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:27 PM
  #784
Reddawg
Registered User
 
Reddawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: Scotland
Posts: 3,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Why do you have to be certain?

Are you certain Casey Mittelstadt is going to be a very good NHLer?

Are you certain that Tippett is going to be significantly better than Drew Stafford?

All picks are risks... Forwards are safer... no doubt. But what Makar has the potential to be is the rarest of commodities.
I'm pretty certain Mittelstadt and Tippett are going to bust, personally. I really like Makar as a prospect, but you have to be absolutely certain he's going to be a big shiny superstar before you spend #8, #37 and Evander Kane acquiring his services. If we had won a lottery spot and were picking #3 outright, then Makar is the pick all day long, of course.

I don't dispute that Makar has the best chance of any player in the draft to be a star for us, but I do dispute that him hitting even 75% of the Karlsson ceiling is worth giving up two good picks and a proven 30 goal scorer to acquire. 75% of Karlsson is what, Torey Krug or Nick Leddy? I wouldn't spend that package to acquire either of those guys. #37 last year could have been Mascherin, DeBrincat or Jonathan Dahlen...it's not a throwaway. I'd rather have Nylander, Dahlen and Kane than have the next Torey Krug, from a value standpoint.

Reddawg is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:28 PM
  #785
Aladyyn
eyes up
 
Aladyyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Czech Republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 7,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddawg View Post
I'm pretty certain Mittelstadt and Tippett are going to bust, personally. I really like Makar as a prospect, but you have to be absolutely certain he's going to be a big shiny superstar before you spend #8, #37 and Evander Kane acquiring his services. If we had won a lottery spot and were picking #3 outright, then Makar is the pick all day long, of course.

I don't dispute that Makar has the best chance of any player in the draft to be a star for us, but I do dispute that him hitting even 75% of the Karlsson ceiling is worth giving up two good picks and a proven 30 goal scorer to acquire. 75% of Karlsson is what, Torey Krug or Nick Leddy? I wouldn't spend that package to acquire either of those guys. #37 last year could have been Mascherin, DeBrincat or Jonathan Dahlen...it's not a throwaway. I'd rather have Nylander, Dahlen and Kane than have the next Torey Krug, from a value standpoint.
75% of Karlsson is a top 5 defenseman in the league.

Aladyyn is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:31 PM
  #786
Sabreality
Registered User
 
Sabreality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 5,454
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
I agree with Bakes, people are sleeping on Liljegren just like they did with Chychrun. That package of skill and skating is drool worthy.
yep, I absolutely swing for the fences with him at 8 if they cant find a way to get Makar/Heiskanen.

Sabreality is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:33 PM
  #787
makeitburn
PUCKGASM
 
makeitburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: midwest
Country: United States
Posts: 1,391
vCash: 500
I'm in the camp that big bodies with low IQ are exactly the players you don't spend 1st rounders on, but 2nd+. Hockey players aren't NFL running backs.

Grigorenko dropped like a rock because of low IQ and look where he ended up. Zadorov was picked for his body and 'offense' and he was riding the minors this year.

Get one of the forwards with the 1st and spend both of the 2nds on defense if there's some boom or busts there.

makeitburn is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:36 PM
  #788
Samsonite23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: wny
Country: United States
Posts: 4,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
I agree with Bakes, people are sleeping on Liljegren just like they did with Chychrun. That package of skill and skating is drool worthy.
I've always been fine with talking Liljegren. He came back early from mono this year and people freak out because he wasn't playing as well as last year.

Samsonite23 is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:36 PM
  #789
Reddawg
Registered User
 
Reddawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: Scotland
Posts: 3,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladyyn View Post
75% of Karlsson is a top 5 defenseman in the league.
I don't buy that assessment. If we say that Karlsson, Burns, Keith, Hedman and Josi are the five best defensemen in the league, is Karlsson 25% better than any of them are? If we include Subban, Doughty, Shattenkirk, Suter, and OEL for a best-guess top ten, is Karlsson 25% better at his position than any of those names?

75% of Karlsson's ability, talent and production might get you a top-20 defenseman at best.

Reddawg is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:39 PM
  #790
Paxon
⚔Z E M G U S⚔
 
Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Laurel, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 25,444
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddawg View Post
I watch Antipin skate, stickhandle and operate in the offensive zone and quietly wonder if we already sniped another Karlsson.
He is nowhere near that good. Antipin is 2 years younger than Karlsson. If he were anywhere that good he'd have been the best player in the KHL for a few seasons running.

Paxon is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:40 PM
  #791
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddawg View Post
I'm pretty certain Mittelstadt and Tippett are going to bust, personally. I really like Makar as a prospect, but you have to be absolutely certain he's going to be a big shiny superstar before you spend #8, #37 and Evander Kane acquiring his services. If we had won a lottery spot and were picking #3 outright, then Makar is the pick all day long, of course.
I simply disagree.


Quote:
I don't dispute that Makar has the best chance of any player in the draft to be a star for us, but I do dispute that him hitting even 75% of the Karlsson ceiling is worth giving up two good picks and a proven 30 goal scorer to acquire. 75% of Karlsson is what, Torey Krug or Nick Leddy? I wouldn't spend that package to acquire either of those guys. #37 last year could have been Mascherin, DeBrincat or Jonathan Dahlen...it's not a throwaway. I'd rather have Nylander, Dahlen and Kane than have the next Torey Krug, from a value standpoint.
I would for 5 years of Leddy ages 26 - 30. No brainer.

Jame is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 01:52 PM
  #792
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,278
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by makeitburn View Post
I'm in the camp that big bodies with low IQ are exactly the players you don't spend 1st rounders on, but 2nd+. Hockey players aren't NFL running backs.

Grigorenko dropped like a rock because of low IQ and look where he ended up. Zadorov was picked for his body and 'offense' and he was riding the minors this year.

Get one of the forwards with the 1st and spend both of the 2nds on defense if there's some boom or busts there.
There are basically zero similarities between those two players and Liljegren. Grigorenko didn't drop because IQ, he dropped because he had horrible compete for level and was probably a horrendous skater, Zadorov is just a meathead.

1972 is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 02:14 PM
  #793
CacOBG
Registered User
 
CacOBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United Kingdom
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 872
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladyyn View Post
I'm going to be disappointed if we end up drafting at #8. It's a terrible spot for us.
Totally agreed man.

CacOBG is online now  
Old
06-19-2017, 02:51 PM
  #794
Jim Bob
....Rebooting....
 
Jim Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 23,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladyyn View Post
I'm going to be disappointed if we end up drafting at #8. It's a terrible spot for us.
It won't surprise me if everyone stands pat in the top 10.

Jim Bob is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 03:42 PM
  #795
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,278
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
No. I'm not certain at all. Far from it. But I'm willing to take that risk, because the potential to be Erik karlsson is incredibly rare.
If Botterill proposes the offer you put forward I'm almost certain he could walk away with Makar.

1972 is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 03:44 PM
  #796
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,278
vCash: 50
On another note, I am glad to see Kevin Devine playing a big role in this years draft along with Jeff Crisp.

1972 is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 03:48 PM
  #797
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
If Botterill proposes the offer you put forward I'm almost certain he could walk away with Makar.
He should do it...

Jame is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 03:50 PM
  #798
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
On another note, I am glad to see Kevin Devine playing a big role in this years draft along with Jeff Crisp.
Why?

Jame is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 03:53 PM
  #799
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,278
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Why?
I've always liked him for some reason, seems like a good hockey guy who kinda got kicked to the side when Murray came in. And Crisp has been a key part of Anaheims staff for like 14 years which have done a very good job drafting.

1972 is offline  
Old
06-19-2017, 04:09 PM
  #800
Moskau
Registered User
 
Moskau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 16,977
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
I've always liked him for some reason, seems like a good hockey guy who kinda got kicked to the side when Murray came in. And Crisp has been a key part of Anaheims staff for like 14 years which have done a very good job drafting.
Really? Other than a good 2013 draft his drafting has been pretty atrocious.

Moskau is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.