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Habs Off-Season Discussion - Part III

View Poll Results: What does MB do to improve the C position?
Statu quo (Danault as 1C, Galchenyuk at wing or 2C) 27 20.00%
Galchenyuk as 1C, Danault as 2C 25 18.52%
Trades or signs for a 1C 48 35.56%
Trades or signs for a 2C 35 25.93%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-07-2017, 10:03 PM
  #76
scrubadam
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Respectfully disagree. He's sure af not there now, but in terms of players turning a corner, I absolutely think Chucky can be elite. He's underperforming significantly, and not due to insurmountable qualities.

So if we take shot, and deking out of it, (his deking, a function of anticipation, which can still be improved based on repetitions and exposure; he still has the native capacity to maneuver a puck effortlessly), the other #1Cs are either really tough, and can also pot garbage goals OR are really talented because of their skating ability (lower body strength and/or edge and stride control). Are these things he has currently? I've seen flashes of it. Does he need to improve? Yes. Can he do it? IMO absolutely.

I'm a firm believer in conditioning and practice. You can change simply your musculature to an astounding degree if you dedicate yourself to it in very short order. That's basic. Beyond that, with skating, there are dynamic components. Proprioception, fast-twitch fibers, vestibulo-ocular-relfex, etc. This of course applies to everyone. So, I'm saying that the delta between where Chucky is now, and where he would be a #1C, is small enough for a good physical (and mental -- not totally separate as alluded to previously) mentor to close the gap relatively quickly.

Would you say Turris is a 1C on a cup contending team? Because I see a lot of similarties between the 2. Both were highly hyped C's taken 3rd OVA. Turris has carved out a nice career for himself in Ottawa but I would put him at the bottom of the 1C or a top 2C in the league.

IMHO thats where I see AG topping out at.

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Old
05-07-2017, 10:26 PM
  #77
The Great Pateryn
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05-07-2017, 10:26 PM
  #78
Frozenice
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Before a rebuild will be successful, the management has to change and MB definitely has to go before a rebuild will be successful.

Toronto is looking successful on a quick rebuild but don't forget they threw a ton of money at getting the best management, coaches, trainers, plus improved their scouting, drafting, development, and AHL programs. It cost them a lot to set that up.

The question is: Will Molson do that? Will he open his wallet for that kind of spending?

If not, a rebuild will be a lot, lot slower. We could end up with an Edmonton, Calgary, or Buffalo type rebuild that took a long time.
How is Toronto a quick rebuild and Calgary isn't?

Toronto spent a lot of money but I'm not sure they have received much return for their money, yet. I agree with the thinking of spending a lot of coin if you're a big market team but would their team be that different if they had spent less money because I'm not so sure it would.

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05-07-2017, 11:21 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
How is Toronto a quick rebuild and Calgary isn't?

Toronto spent a lot of money but I'm not sure they have received much return for their money, yet. I agree with the thinking of spending a lot of coin if you're a big market team but would their team be that different if they had spent less money because I'm not so sure it would.
Would the Leafs be different and not as good now without Babcock, Lamoriello, and Hunter ... definitely yes! Don't forget that according to them, this was only supposed to be the second of three years of pain, but it was those three guys that got them off to a faster start that exceeded expectations. The rest of that spend hasn't had the same immediate impact as these three but will soon be paying them more dividends as they go on.

Calgary, which was moving up, took a step backwards in their rebuild with their four and out in the playoffs. Their rebuild will now take another step and be longer.

Anyway, this is going off topic from the main point of "Will Molson open up his wallet?".


Last edited by RealityBytes: 05-07-2017 at 11:28 PM.
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Old
05-07-2017, 11:24 PM
  #80
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Would bonino be a target for us and can he play in the top six for us? Looking at the ufa list it's pretty bare for our biggest needs which is a LD to play with weber and a top 6 centre.

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05-08-2017, 12:25 AM
  #81
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With Jerabek signed, maybe Jan Kovar can be enticed to head over to NA and hopefully to MTL. Easily one of the best players outside the NHL and a right-handed, solidly built centre to boot. I've watched him play a couple of times and he's definitely worth a look - intelligent, engaged player with a lot of skill. Could be the next best thing after Shipachev or Hanzal. Plays like a 2C that can handle both ends of the ice. Not sure what his contract status is though.

Edit: Forgot Da Costa's contract is expiring with CSKA Moscow. Another offensively gifted right handed centre, but with NHL/NA experience and very familiar with Radulov. Could be worth a shot - he speaks french if that impresses anyone


Last edited by Draft: 05-08-2017 at 12:39 AM.
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Old
05-08-2017, 01:19 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
With Jerabek signed, maybe Jan Kovar can be enticed to head over to NA and hopefully to MTL. Easily one of the best players outside the NHL and a right-handed, solidly built centre to boot. I've watched him play a couple of times and he's definitely worth a look - intelligent, engaged player with a lot of skill. Could be the next best thing after Shipachev or Hanzal. Plays like a 2C that can handle both ends of the ice. Not sure what his contract status is though.

Edit: Forgot Da Costa's contract is expiring with CSKA Moscow. Another offensively gifted right handed centre, but with NHL/NA experience and very familiar with Radulov. Could be worth a shot - he speaks french if that impresses anyone
I am all for adding skill, but enough with the smurfs.

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05-08-2017, 01:35 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Halakitlikethat View Post
Would bonino be a target for us and can he play in the top six for us? Looking at the ufa list it's pretty bare for our biggest needs which is a LD to play with weber and a top 6 centre.
Can? Of course he can, take a look at our centers but he wouldn't be a solution though.

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05-08-2017, 04:38 AM
  #84
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I've been talking about adding legit centers for while, but at this point, losing Radulov would make it all meaningless...

Here's hoping Bergevin has something in place after the expansion draft, otherwise, we're ****ed.

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05-08-2017, 04:42 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Kovalchuk return isn't only dependent on LV or whoever. Devils get first rights. What does LV have to offer for a premier talent like Kovalchuk?

Not to mention Kovalchuk may refuse to come for a sign and trade.
I tough LV could pick him up in the expansion draft for free.

Anyone thinks NJD will protect Kovalchuck?
Hall, Zajac, Palmieri, Cammaleri, Henrique, Straka, DSP, Bennet, Josefson...

Why would they protect Kovalchuck?

Shipacheyov was Kovalchuck's center.

A first line with Kovalchuck - Shipacheyov - Radulov with Emelin and Markov in defense could be interesting in LV.

Probably won't happen but Kovalchuck in LV is certainly possible.

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05-08-2017, 06:27 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by get25 View Post
I tough LV could pick him up in the expansion draft for free.

Anyone thinks NJD will protect Kovalchuck?
Hall, Zajac, Palmieri, Cammaleri, Henrique, Straka, DSP, Bennet, Josefson...

Why would they protect Kovalchuck?

Shipacheyov was Kovalchuck's center.

A first line with Kovalchuck - Shipacheyov - Radulov with Emelin and Markov in defense could be interesting in LV.

Probably won't happen but Kovalchuck in LV is certainly possible.
They don't need to protect him. Only way he changes team is sign and trade. Anything else is against the rules from what I understand.

If he needs to be protected I still would. Trade value alone exceeds what bid would lose in a 3rd liner.

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05-08-2017, 06:39 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by RealityBytes View Post
Would the Leafs be different and not as good now without Babcock, Lamoriello, and Hunter ... definitely yes!
Maybe. They aren't miracle workers, they traded a few players and drafted a few players that were more or less consensus picks, that's all.

If the Leafs had been a top team instead of a lousy team for the past decade they wouldn't be such boy geniuses and that's the truth!

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05-08-2017, 08:10 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Maybe. They aren't miracle workers, they traded a few players and drafted a few players that were more or less consensus picks, that's all.

If the Leafs had been a top team instead of a lousy team for the past decade they wouldn't be such boy geniuses and that's the truth!
I think the biggest difference with the Leafs is the new management team and the decisions they have made.

Essentially they took over a roster and decided which players they needed to trade and which players they needed to keep...they traded players like David Clarkson, Phil Kessel, and Dion Phaneuf, and decided to keep players like JVR and Kadri. They also buried players like Lupul and Robidas in no man's land.

So far I think they have made a lot of positive moves, obviously with a bit of fortune on their side to draft Matthews but they also gave themselves the best chance mathematically to indeed get the chance to draft him.

The Leaf management team has done a really good job of turning the ship around pretty quickly imo but we'll see if they can take the next step now that nobody will be surprised by them next year and will likely devise gameplans for specific players, etc.

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05-08-2017, 08:18 AM
  #89
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I think the Leafs' management has gone off the rails a bit since Lamoriello was hired as GM. Their moves (Matt Martin, Inexplicably getting Fehr, 7 years for Zaitsev) have been a lot more conventional since then. I also don't think Lou's been a good GM in the cap era. When the Leafs blew their brains out on Clarkson he went out and signed Ryan Clowe for New Jersey.

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05-08-2017, 08:50 AM
  #90
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Lou is overrated. This notion of having a military demeanor with a sports team is archaic and idiotic.

Their scouting department deserves kudos. Lou didn't make shrewd moves to get Matthews, Nylander and Marner. They are who drive the team. He receives my kudos for getting Andersen, but I feel he overpaid for him.

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05-08-2017, 09:26 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Capitano View Post
I think the biggest difference with the Leafs is the new management team and the decisions they have made.

Essentially they took over a roster and decided which players they needed to trade and which players they needed to keep...they traded players like David Clarkson, Phil Kessel, and Dion Phaneuf, and decided to keep players like JVR and Kadri. They also buried players like Lupul and Robidas in no man's land.

So far I think they have made a lot of positive moves, obviously with a bit of fortune on their side to draft Matthews but they also gave themselves the best chance mathematically to indeed get the chance to draft him.

The Leaf management team has done a really good job of turning the ship around pretty quickly imo but we'll see if they can take the next step now that nobody will be surprised by them next year and will likely devise gameplans for specific players, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roke View Post
I think the Leafs' management has gone off the rails a bit since Lamoriello was hired as GM. Their moves (Matt Martin, Inexplicably getting Fehr, 7 years for Zaitsev) have been a lot more conventional since then. I also don't think Lou's been a good GM in the cap era. When the Leafs blew their brains out on Clarkson he went out and signed Ryan Clowe for New Jersey.
That's both sides of the coin as far as what they have done. Yes, they have done the right moves but those should of been the moves that a decent GM should have done and other moves have been so-so. I remember Cito Gaston saying that managers do the same thing as any other manager 95% of the time, it's in the last 5% that makes the difference.

I think they all took the Leafs job mainly because they felt it gave them the best chance to win, not because they wanted to take a chance on a bunch of nobodies.

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05-08-2017, 09:27 AM
  #92
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I've been talking about adding legit centers for while, but at this point, losing Radulov would make it all meaningless...

Here's hoping Bergevin has something in place after the expansion draft, otherwise, we're ****ed.
If we re-sign Radulov, what about making him a centre? He seems to control the puck when he is out there, and he is a pass first shoot second type of guy...could this be the answer to a #1 centre?

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Old
05-08-2017, 11:14 AM
  #93
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If Radulov doesn't resign he will go to Vegas.

Markov had a great season but TBH I want a change in direction and to get younger. I hope we find a way to get rid of both Plekanec and Emelin. I also wouldn't be opposed to moving Pacioretty for the right return. I would also go down the offer sheet route for a guy like Drai but we all know MB never would do such a thing to a fellow GM.


Trade 1:


Lindholm


Pacioretty

Trade 2:


Duchene


Sergachev
Plekanec

Trade 3:


Rights to Kovalchuk

Picks

Expansion: Emelin

Kovalchuk-Duchene-Radulov
Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Byron-Danault-Shaw
Carr-Mitchell-McCarron

Lindholm-Weber
Markov-Petry
Davidson-Benn

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05-08-2017, 11:29 AM
  #94
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The thing that makes me most sick about the Habs is watching the Oilers play and seeing DD out there making no difference whatsoever. Only diff is he's on the 3rd line just there to hold the fort for two top powerhouse lines.
Yet here in mtl, this guy was our #1C for the better part of 2.5 years. Sure our coaches fingured it out finally.. mt= took him 2.5 years and cj= took him 1 day. But my god, how inept must our management be if they thought for any period of time that DD was anything higher than a 3c?
Can you imagine DD centering mcdavid and or draisaitl. The whole nhl would question their sanity. Yet us habs fans have had to bang our head against walls for years.
Sad state of affairs indeed.

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05-08-2017, 11:42 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Uncle Gary View Post
If Radulov doesn't resign he will go to Vegas.

Markov had a great season but TBH I want a change in direction and to get younger. I hope we find a way to get rid of both Plekanec and Emelin. I also wouldn't be opposed to moving Pacioretty for the right return. I would also go down the offer sheet route for a guy like Drai but we all know MB never would do such a thing to a fellow GM.


Trade 1:


Lindholm


Pacioretty

Trade 2:


Duchene


Sergachev
Plekanec

Trade 3:


Rights to Kovalchuk

Picks

Expansion: Emelin

Kovalchuk-Duchene-Radulov
Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Byron-Danault-Shaw
Carr-Mitchell-McCarron

Lindholm-Weber
Markov-Petry
Davidson-Benn
Kovalchuk needs to sign and trade.....we can't acquire his rights.

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05-08-2017, 11:52 AM
  #96
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The thing that makes me most sick about the Habs is watching the Oilers play and seeing DD out there making no difference whatsoever. Only diff is he's on the 3rd line just there to hold the fort for two top powerhouse lines.
Yet here in mtl, this guy was our #1C for the better part of 2.5 years. Sure our coaches fingured it out finally.. mt= took him 2.5 years and cj= took him 1 day. But my god, how inept must our management be if they thought for any period of time that DD was anything higher than a 3c?
Can you imagine DD centering mcdavid and or draisaitl. The whole nhl would question their sanity. Yet us habs fans have had to bang our head against walls for years.
Sad state of affairs indeed.
Well if we actually had better options, we might of not had DD in our line-up for all these years and not felt like we had to sign him to the contract that we did. It's easy to say what your saying. You go and try to get improvements at center with the assets we had when those centers were available in the last 5 years.

You look at almost every center that was available and then look at what the Habs could of done instead of the other team to acquire that guy. Then you will come to your senses.

The Oilers say DD as a reliable center who can play 3rd or 4th line center for them. That's exactly what he is doing. If the Habs had McDavid, we would of played DD as our 3rd line or 4th line guy too don't you think?

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Old
05-08-2017, 11:58 AM
  #97
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I think the key to improving our roster is with trades and who knows if we can find a trade partner. It comes down to trading one of these 3 players (as well as picks and prospects)... Patch, Galchenyuk, Gallagher. I won't be surprised if one of these guys is not on the roster next year.

Can we find a trade partner though where both teams address team needs? That is the important question because that's how trade discussions develop!

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05-08-2017, 12:31 PM
  #98
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I am all for adding skill, but enough with the smurfs.
Kovar is built. 5'11 and about 220lbs. Da Costa is fast, it's not like he has an issue playing against men.

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05-08-2017, 01:10 PM
  #99
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I just do not see many changes in the offseason. We may pull a Radulov out of free agency, but that is it. The only pieces that will be changed will be on the bottom lines. Do you think things will be different this offseason? I believe it will be the same old, same old.


Last edited by bipolarhabfan: 05-08-2017 at 01:36 PM.
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05-08-2017, 01:11 PM
  #100
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With Draisaitl showing he can be a great no 2, I really think the Oilers will be looking to move RNH. It'll still be a hockey trade, but I think they'd want to save on the cap a bit with raises for Drai and others coming.

While RNH wouldn't be my first choice, I do think he ticks a lot of boxes for the Habs:
- defensively responsible, proven top 6 centre
- playmaking centre to play with Pacioretty
- reasonably young with years of team control left
- most likely available

If the Oilers plan on moving Drai to wing, there's a hole on the right side, and I would bet they'd be looking for someone like Shaw or Gallagher. I think either would be a great fit in Edmonton. Gallagher brings energy and tenacity to a team that could probably use more of it, especially on the right side (ahem...Eberle). Shaw has the versatility to be a winger or centre if they need and plays with that edge that it seems PC covets.

Don't know if a straight up trade would happen but I think it could be a good basis. I think RNH is worth more than both so perhaps there's guys like Beaulieu and Fayne involved.

RNH & Fayne
for
Shaw/Gallagher & Beaulieu

Not really sure if there'd be a plus on our side but if so I'm sure it would be something we could handle.

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