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Three enforcers, two drafts...

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Old
02-15-2006, 03:20 AM
  #1
thestonedkoala
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Three enforcers, two drafts...

Remember in 2004 when the Wild went off the board and picked up Aaron Boogaard? Remember when Arby told us that the Wild didn't give him an offer sheet and so he became a free agent?

Well apparently the younger Boogaard has taken after his big brother, Derek Boogaard, and has become an enforcer for the Tri-City Americans.

Remember when Tommy Thompson said they got a gem in the draft and needed to draft someone to protect the gem?

I guess Tommy forgot that we had TWO enforcers coming up through the system.

Want numbers?

Matt Kassian, 9 points, -13 and 118 PIMs in 55 games

Riley Emmerson (he's been described as an enforcer. He also plays both wing and defenseman. I think he's more of a Jason Marshall type of player) 2 points, -2 and 86 PIMs in 53 Games

Aaron Boogaard 8 points (5 goals!), -7 and 166 PIMs...

This boggles the mind. I know everyone disliked or even loathed that the Wild picked up Kassian in the 2nd round, well personally this makes me even more pissed off since we had both Boogaards in the system and both of them were turning out to be good enforcers.

Apparently also we got Kyle Bailey as a PF type of player. Good points and more PIMs then both Emmerson and Kassian.

14 goals, 25 assists and 124 PIMs...

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Old
02-15-2006, 10:34 AM
  #2
MePutPuckInNet
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Doobie, dude - I don't mean to sound too harsh but honestly, how many times does it need to be said? The +/- stat is absolutely useless unless it's shown in relation to a players teammates. Even at that, it never tells a complete story and often not even an accurate 'partial story'.

"Could you please present more information before you panick and present your anxiety to the group?" [ sorry, that was a direct quote from a psychologist leading a group therapy session recently - some kid came in and started freaking out about how his car got towed and he had no idea why...and then as he started sharing the details of the story it turns out he was totally high when he "parked" it and had no idea where he left it...only to find out that he actually left it in the impound lot, cuz the gate was open and he couldn't find any other place to park......what a hoot! ]

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Old
02-15-2006, 01:47 PM
  #3
thestonedkoala
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Oh, I don't care about the +/-, just threw that in there. What I do care about is the PIMs...

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02-15-2006, 01:55 PM
  #4
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If he's a free agent and really good, we can make him an offer. I don't get the fuss.

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02-15-2006, 02:10 PM
  #5
thestonedkoala
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My fuss is why the hell did we draft Kassian in the 2nd round when we drafted Boogaard in the 5th round in 2004? He did have an off year in 2004-2005 with his production, I'll give the Wild that, that they weren't happy with his production in the W but Tommy Thompson, I remember from the notes, talked about how we needed to protect this gem of a prospect that we got in Pouliot. Did Thompson think that Boogaard was a bust (Derek) and we should draft another enforcer because Boogaard wasn't going to make it? Which answers the question of why we picked up Nazarov. Because we either thought (1) Boogaard wasn't ready, which is why we also picked up Kassian, to potentially push Boogaard (2) They didn't like Boogaard's progression in the AHL, which means we picked up Nazarov for a stop gap until Kassian was ready (which could take as long as Boogaard (Derek).

I am not panicking, yeesh...I'm just asking questions. I know the +/- means nothing, I just threw that in there. It is a stupid record. I mean Thelen has a -24 but he has more ice time then other players, so he's bound to be on the short end of the stick whenever they score goals.

OMG He's panicking...No, I am asking further questions into why we picked up Kassian. Probably has more potential than Boogaard...so is Derek going to be a stop gap or are we going to keep him and not sign Kassian? Or are we going to trade Boogaard? I also do agree that Kassian is 3-5 years away but Boogaard by that time should be hitting his potential as an enforcer and as a player. And I do also realize that we'll figure this question out in those 3-5 years when Kassian is ready.

Arby probably can clear this up in my mind, wherever he is.

BTW here's an article in 2005 about mini-Boogaard:

Mini Boogie


Last edited by thestonedkoala: 02-15-2006 at 02:21 PM.
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Old
02-15-2006, 02:23 PM
  #6
ceber
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I don't think the team has as complex a scheme in mind as you describe. I think it's a mistake to try to do that. There are too many unknowns with prospects. In my opinion it's best to simply draft based on a few simple principles. If you get too complex in your plans, I think they'll surely fail. Draft players you think will be useful in the league. The ones that turn out you can use in trade or on your team. Also, don't forget that mistakes will be made. Every team has guys that won't pan out, or guys they let go that turn into a NHLers. Bound to happen.

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02-15-2006, 02:42 PM
  #7
firstroundbust
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kassian was a bad pick

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02-15-2006, 02:54 PM
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I've noticed it's not all that unusual for tough guys get drafted around where Kassian was picked; Matt Johnson and George Laraque come to mind. I'm guessing that if the scouts see someone that has the tools to become more than a raw goon, i.e. perhaps chip in 10 goals, 20 points, skate a regular shift and throw in some nice hits, they could be a valuable commodity down the road. I'm sure the Wild are looking at his tools, and if his current coach in junior is playing him as just an enforcer, well that is out of the Wild's control. Stats can be misleading that way.

Seeing what they were able to accomplish with Boogie, who was a hell of a lot more raw than Kassian, he may still end up being one of those enforcers who can actually play the game.

On the other hand, I wish they'd picked some slick euro- winger instead.

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02-15-2006, 04:58 PM
  #9
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Any thought to the idea that they were drafted to protect prospects on the various minor league teams? I mean we do have some young talent, and I feel fairly certain that there is more fighting in the minors than the pros.

I don't really agree with the picks, but just something to throw out there.

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02-15-2006, 05:50 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evegoe
Any thought to the idea that they were drafted to protect prospects on the various minor league teams? I mean we do have some young talent, and I feel fairly certain that there is more fighting in the minors than the pros.

I don't really agree with the picks, but just something to throw out there.
I guess thats something to think about, same with bookman's post.

I think that there were so many better players out there at the time that would have filled holes we have.

http://www.nhl.com/draft/2005/round2.html
http://www.nhl.com/draft/2005/round3.html

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02-15-2006, 05:59 PM
  #11
thestonedkoala
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The thing that makes me wonder is Derek talked to Aaron (if you read the article) and I believe Thompson or Derek said Aaron had some scoring upside to his game.

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02-16-2006, 02:26 AM
  #12
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Kassian in the 2nd round was probably the worst pick I've ever seen. You could have had him in the 4th or 5th round.

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02-16-2006, 09:47 AM
  #13
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People were saying we didn't need to trade up to grab Irmen, but it turns out we did. How does anyone know where Kassian would've gone?
Not arguing where he would've gone, or that it was a good pick.

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02-16-2006, 11:21 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceber
People were saying we didn't need to trade up to grab Irmen, but it turns out we did. How does anyone know where Kassian would've gone?
Not arguing where he would've gone, or that it was a good pick.


ummmm


I think that he was ranked something like #100th NA skater, but I dont think that he would have been around mid to late rounds

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02-16-2006, 12:00 PM
  #15
Surly Furious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceUNO
ummmm


I think that he was ranked something like #100th NA skater, but I dont think that he would have been around mid to late rounds

Those CSB rankings aren't scripture. Teams employ their own scouts for a reason.

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02-16-2006, 12:28 PM
  #16
Boondock Saint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoobieDoobieDo
Remember in 2004 when the Wild went off the board and picked up Aaron Boogaard? Remember when Arby told us that the Wild didn't give him an offer sheet and so he became a free agent?

Well apparently the younger Boogaard has taken after his big brother, Derek Boogaard, and has become an enforcer for the Tri-City Americans.

Remember when Tommy Thompson said they got a gem in the draft and needed to draft someone to protect the gem?

I guess Tommy forgot that we had TWO enforcers coming up through the system.

Want numbers?

Matt Kassian, 9 points, -13 and 118 PIMs in 55 games

Riley Emmerson (he's been described as an enforcer. He also plays both wing and defenseman. I think he's more of a Jason Marshall type of player) 2 points, -2 and 86 PIMs in 53 Games

Aaron Boogaard 8 points (5 goals!), -7 and 166 PIMs...

This boggles the mind. I know everyone disliked or even loathed that the Wild picked up Kassian in the 2nd round, well personally this makes me even more pissed off since we had both Boogaards in the system and both of them were turning out to be good enforcers.

Apparently also we got Kyle Bailey as a PF type of player. Good points and more PIMs then both Emmerson and Kassian.

14 goals, 25 assists and 124 PIMs...
Don't read into Kassian's PIM numbers. The only reason they are so low is because 95% of the players in the WHL won't look him in the eyes, let alone drop the gloves with him.

And I've seen Emmerson a bunch when he played with the Chilliwack Chiefs. Write him off immediately. A huge guy, but not a great fighter and a terrible defenseman.

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02-16-2006, 01:03 PM
  #17
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I think that DR and TT picked up Kassian because they thought they needed someone to replace Moose. They had no idea that Derek Boogaard would be able to skate in the NHL although I think they knew he could fight. Remember, Boogie was weighing 280 last season. He's lost 30 pounds! No s**t he can skate better now. Nazarov could play the tough guy role ... er ... um ... well ... if nobody else could. So ... what if Derek couldn't skate, Nazarov turned out to be a flop and we can't pull a trade? I can imagine the conversation between DR & TT: "Well, we've got this psycho teenager pummeling his way through the WHL, let's bring him up." "I'm on the phone right now, boss."

While my dialogue might be a smidgeon unrealistic, I think the idea of having depth at every role is important. Taking Kassian in the 2nd round? No comment.

The Big E

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Old
02-16-2006, 04:48 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Don't read into Kassian's PIM numbers. The only reason they are so low is because 95% of the players in the WHL won't look him in the eyes, let alone drop the gloves with him.

And I've seen Emmerson a bunch when he played with the Chilliwack Chiefs. Write him off immediately. A huge guy, but not a great fighter and a terrible defenseman.

I've heard this as well....I've read people are downright scared to fight him.

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Old
02-16-2006, 05:12 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisd
I've heard this as well....I've read people are downright scared to fight him.
It's true, he is a monster. He looks like "Meat" from porky's out there.

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Old
02-16-2006, 08:40 PM
  #20
thestonedkoala
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That's a good point about Kassian, but I still have problems with drafting Kassian and Boogaard...only to discard Boogaard.

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02-17-2006, 12:46 AM
  #21
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I see Kassian play on a regular basis and have to say, it seems to have been a brutal pic, taking him that high. Now he is likely the toughest in the league, which is a pretty good title to have in the WHL considering his age. I know most tough guys dont have great hockey sense but Matt's seems very bad. He is big a slow and usually just standing doing nothing. It would be easy to say he will never play in the NHL, but given that he almost never loses a fight and is the size of a house, I guess you never know.

What stops most of us WHL BC div fans from completely ruling Kassian out is that he is a way better player and fighter than Derek Boogard ever was while in PG. Derek was tough obviously but lost his share and was one of the worst players in the league. When I watch him now, its incredible to see how much he has improved and seems to beat the crap out of most guys he faces.

Aaron is a tough guy but would lose to Kassian 4 of 5 fights I would say. Any Kassian fans should look at signing up for the live stream games at whl.ca next weekend. Kamloops plays Portland and Seattle, Fri-Sat and usually there's some good tilts in those games.

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