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Old
10-23-2003, 10:49 PM
  #26
thome_26
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Name ONE other defensman in the NHL who is 24 and is expected to be the go-to-guy on the blueline for a team that has expectations of making the playoffs! TRY! You can't! It's not that Brewer doesn't care, it's just that he is a VERY shy and calm guy. He DOES care - he just doesn't show him emotions like most others. All this talk of him being a flop is sickening. In six games just about everybody has decided that Brewer can't cut it and that he will fail miserably. Well I laugh at that - many of you are worried about the team, as am I. But to begin with all this Brewer is a flop, Salo isn't an NHL starter, and all the other pessimistic stuff that people are saying is funny - as just two games ago the Oilers were a GREAT team, with goaltending that was coming around and a blueline that was suprising us with it's good play. You say his defensive play has regressed. I say not. It hasn't developed like I would have hoped, but a big part of his +/- is due to the fact that in his first year he wasn't in position to fail - so his +/- was good. In the second year we had a great team defensively, so even a mediocre player could have a good +/-. Last year our team sucked defensively, and his +/- suffered. Go outside of Oiler boards and you will see that Brewer is still a coveted player. This is the worst display of bandwagon jumping I have seen in all my time on this board.

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10-23-2003, 10:51 PM
  #27
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Hey SuperJ, we still think Brewer is redeemable, we just want team accountability to kick in. Personally, I think Brewer has a competitive learning disability. Now! I'm serious here. Eric, under pressure, as a defensive tactic, tries to slows critical situations down. Offensively, he just reacts to the play and is more successful. Defensively, he has become inhibited.

In the past, his size and skill have naturally compensated defensively. Now on the live ice, players are just too big and fast, and Eric is freezing up. He needs to be encouraged, to not think, and just play the puck. Like my old boss said, "when defusing land mines think only positively."

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Old
10-23-2003, 10:53 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OYLer
Hey SuperJ Like my old boss said, "when defusing land mines think only positively."
Gotta agree with him there!!!

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Old
10-24-2003, 04:32 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by thome_26
All this talk of him being a flop is sickening. In six games just about everybody has decided that Brewer can't cut it and that he will fail miserably.
I've been thinking this a hell of alot longer than 6 games! Ask anyone here.

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10-24-2003, 04:53 AM
  #30
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Brewer is easily our most talented defenseman. If he isn't playing like it that's the job of a coach. Seeing as coaches are a dime a dozen I suggest we do something in that area because talented defensmen are not a dime a dozen.

 
Old
10-24-2003, 05:08 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Brewer is easily our most talented defenseman. If he isn't playing like it that's the job of a coach. Seeing as coaches are a dime a dozen I suggest we do something in that area because talented defensmen are not a dime a dozen.
Being as MacT is in the first year of what I think is a 3 year deal, you can probably forget that idea right now. Barring a resignation, he's not going anywhere.

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10-24-2003, 05:09 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
Name ONE other defensman in the NHL who is 24 and is expected to be the go-to-guy on the blueline for a team that has expectations of making the playoffs! TRY! You can't! .
Mara and Tanabe are pretty close on PHX. I believe they are even younger... but I don't dispute your arguement much. They're all expected to do too much too soon -- having said that I still think that Brewer is somewhat overrated, though I'd love to have him on Chicago

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Old
10-24-2003, 05:15 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Digger12
Being as MacT is in the first year of what I think is a 3 year deal, you can probably forget that idea right now. Barring a resignation, he's not going anywhere.
I was thinking more about Huddy.

 
Old
10-24-2003, 05:57 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
I was thinking more about Huddy.
Then how do you explain the development of Staios. Huddy sure did a good job there. Not to mention making Ulanov a semi-reliable dman for us...

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10-24-2003, 06:02 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by momentai
Then how do you explain the development of Staios. Huddy sure did a good job there. Not to mention making Ulanov a semi-reliable dman for us...
Staios has always had a good attitude and been hard-nosed. Brewer doesn't seem to have those attributes. A coach has to be able to work with all types of players, not just those that already have it.

 
Old
10-24-2003, 06:17 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Staios has always had a good attitude and been hard-nosed. Brewer doesn't seem to have those attributes. A coach has to be able to work with all types of players, not just those that already have it.
Staios may have had a good attitude and captain material but he was never top 4 material until he came here where he has become invaluable to us. He's played better here than he's ever played. I think you can contribute AT LEAST some of that to Huddy's influence.

And if Brewer isn't willing to work hard, how is that Huddy's fault? There are only so many things Huddy can do to help Brewer at this point.. It's up to Brewer to work at them and execute.

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10-24-2003, 06:18 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Staios has always had a good attitude and been hard-nosed. Brewer doesn't seem to have those attributes. A coach has to be able to work with all types of players, not just those that already have it.
Let me get this straight...if a player has a bad attitude and plays soft, it's the coach's fault??

I'm sorry, but hypothetically if I'm the GM and 6 of my 7 dmen show a good work ethic and play as hard as they can, it's the 7th guy that's going to be getting an earful from me, not the assistant coach.

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Old
10-24-2003, 06:45 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Digger12
Let me get this straight...if a player has a bad attitude and plays soft, it's the coach's fault??

I'm sorry, but hypothetically if I'm the GM and 6 of my 7 dmen show a good work ethic and play as hard as they can, it's the 7th guy that's going to be getting an earful from me, not the assistant coach.
My contention is that one of the jobs of a coach is to change attitudes. If a player doesn't play the way you want and won't change after getting an earful then you have to look at several circumstances.

1. Is the player hearing impaired? Yes, get rid of him.
2. Does the coach lack motivational skills? Yes, get rid of him or get him some skills.

As a coach my choice would be to work extra hard to help Brewer because, as I said before, he has the talent. Those people whose first reaction is to trade him, just as it is with Comrie, fail to realize the potential benefits of working through tough situations.

 
Old
10-24-2003, 06:47 AM
  #39
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i'm the one G2K mentioned as suggesting that brewer is suffering for having to compensate for cross. i still believe that to be the case in previous games...

but that wasn't the case last night that's for damn sure.

brewer was BREWtal. case closed.

i'm not ready to give up on him yet though. he has the markings of a great player. it does beg the question though - does the oilers "youth strategy" burn out young players too quickly?

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Old
10-24-2003, 08:41 AM
  #40
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I think Brewer's play is a product of his environment. He has all of the skills required to be an elite defenseman and demonstrated them in making the Olympic team. The issue in my mind is Brewer is being asked to do (and be) too much. A big Number One defenseman who is to play physical, dish out punishment and clear the net. Move the puck and carry the play in transition and lead the power play on the backend.

He can do all of these things and teases us with flashes of this potential realized. However putting together all of these pieces consistently is just not happening. Specific issue for me is the expectations of offense and as a power play quarterback. Brewer just isn't cut out for this imo.

The solution imo is to trade for or develop a true power play specialist at the backend. Let this player become the focus and 'go to' guy and allow Brewer to focus on his strongest attributes - playing physical, tough, and mean defense. He can still grow into a solid offensive defender but it seems to me his best attributes and focus should be elsewhere.

Love this guy when he's on his game. But asking him to do too much is erroding his effectiveness on this team.

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Old
10-24-2003, 09:29 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
i'm the one G2K mentioned as suggesting that brewer is suffering for having to compensate for cross. i still believe that to be the case in previous games...

but that wasn't the case last night that's for damn sure.

brewer was BREWtal. case closed.

i'm not ready to give up on him yet though. he has the markings of a great player. it does beg the question though - does the oilers "youth strategy" burn out young players too quickly?
You mentioned earlier that your veiw of Cross may be tainted, skewed or something because you've never liked the guy. I'll admit he isn't that graceful out there. Thus you admitted that your assessment of him might be jaded. I would have to agree that might be the case with you.

But I'll also admit that may be the case with me also LD. I like the under-dog. I was big on Reasoner staying in the line up last season. As far as under-dogs go......the don't get as UNDER as Cory Cross. Most people didn't even give the guy a chance before he even boarded a plane to Edmonton. And HF bombarded him for the rest of that season.

With Brewtal it's different with me. The kid that can "skate fast and yet make it look easy" has had all the opportunities in the world. Olympic team? That blew me away. Still does. The All Star game is even a pretty big stretch if you ask me.

Like I said earlier, Million dollar talent with the 10 cent brain.

So I guess it's easy for me to dislike Bobo Brewer whose had all the doors held open for him while the red-headed step-son has had to battle and claw for any respect what so ever. And dare make a bad pass in your own end and everyone want to talk about THAT instead of being responsible for the other 15 minutes of ice-time blocking shots, getting cross-checked and bulldozing people out of the crease area. He's handles alot of big players in his own end. Whens the last time Brewer has decided to lay one of those bone crunching checks he used to 2 seasons ago?

If Cross had made as many mistakes as Brewer even before last nights match this season......there would be a 200 post thread on why he is even dressed.

I just don't think it makes any sense for management to pay this guys over priced tuition until he figures it out and then we can't pay him. Too much money for too little reward in this market in my opinion. Give me a team of Smiths and Staois's over inconsistant, up-start, high potentialgonnabeProngersomedayover-paiddon'tneedtohitanymore Brewers or Mironovs.

But HEY! I'm not always right. Agreeing to disagree is cool with me on this one. I was in favor of dealing Smyth for the right player some time last season.........my heart skips a beat when I reflect on those thoughts now....lol. Mind you he wasn't an inspired potential big centerman last season either. I'm glad we kept him. Brewer only convinced me for one season, then he changed his game. Look forward to a hold out someday when he want's more than he's worth......again.

Just hoping to get you over to the dark side LD......no cats here my friend. It's ballsy, but could reap a pretty good return. Really change the face of this team.

Can I spam you PM box now?.....lol.

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Old
10-24-2003, 09:55 AM
  #42
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We (the Bruins) will give you your pick of Gill or O'Donnell & the rights to sign Berard for less than $2 million...we'll even throw in Moran for free (though I'd understand if you turned him down)...

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Old
10-24-2003, 10:09 AM
  #43
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Uh-oh!

Oiler fans are beginning to treat defencemen the same way Canuck fans treat goalies

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Old
10-24-2003, 12:17 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by vb
Uh-oh!

Oiler fans are beginning to treat defencemen the same way Canuck fans treat goalies
Pow! yowzers... right on target!


I've got to agree with Thome on this one. Despite his three seasons, he's STILL a young 24 yo defenseman. Oiler fans have honestly no patience. Thome's right, there are no #1 24 yo defensemen in the NHL. Its growing pains. It takes time, not months, not just a year, ... YEARS.

Remember Spaz Ninnimaa when he came over? He turned out exceptionally well but it took years. Remember Pronger when he was drafted by the Whalers? Why would you ever trade a future Norris trophy winner, because your GM was stupid and impatient and couldn't see that grooming defensemen takes time. Remember Jovonovski when he drafted by Florida? Another possible future Norris dude, traded because the drafting team couldn't wait.

The problem is that the Oilers don't have an Al MacInnis schooling and shielding a young Barret Jackman. Not anymore, we had Janne and it was my hope that he would stay another year to help Brewer become more confident and assured in his role.

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Old
10-24-2003, 12:57 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHard
Trading Brewer now would be a huge mistake.

The comparison to Niinimaa's development is valid but there's one big difference. Niinimaa was allowed to develop first as a #3rd d-man after Bobo and Hammer, then as a #2 d-man after Hammer and finally he became the #1 d-man when Hammer was traded.

While Jason Smith is good and reliable stay-at-homer, he's not offensively gifted so after Niinimaa was traded, Brewer became the go-to guy.

I really think that Brewer needed another year developing with Niinimaa carrying the main load on his shoulders.
Exactly. There is no cover for Brewer. Its baptism by fire. I hope he doesn't get too badly burned.

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Old
10-24-2003, 01:06 PM
  #46
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Ya but nobody is considering the D man/men we could get back in a Comrie/Brewer package. It's all like, "we're too weak on D to trade away the likes of Brewer" or something, but you gotta look at the whole picture.

I feel we could increase experience on our blue line greatly.

Comrie and Brewer are HUGE bargaining chips in my opinion.

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Old
10-24-2003, 01:20 PM
  #47
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The sad part is I have to agree with the original post. His puck movement is slow and rehearsed, and very predictable. I'd imagine that the forwards might not be giving him a decent target, but you're going to have to take a few steps and then deliver the puck quickly. He doesn't do that. He waits, and blunders.

 
Old
10-24-2003, 03:44 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHard
Trading Brewer now would be a huge mistake.

The comparison to Niinimaa's development is valid but there's one big difference. Niinimaa was allowed to develop first as a #3rd d-man after Bobo and Hammer, then as a #2 d-man after Hammer and finally he became the #1 d-man when Hammer was traded.

While Jason Smith is good and reliable stay-at-homer, he's not offensively gifted so after Niinimaa was traded, Brewer became the go-to guy.

I really think that Brewer needed another year developing with Niinimaa carrying the main load on his shoulders.
Bingo. Give this person a medal.

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