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Old
10-23-2003, 08:20 PM
  #26
McThome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmminvisiblecola
no problem dont read my posts or go find another site. two of you guys missed my point and i am sorry i could not make it more simple for you. have a good night.
i completely conceived the point of your post. It was the same ol' same ol' story about Salo - but the one thing that I wanted to reply to I did. It's not that you posted it! If it was Guy who posted it, or Lowetide, or #1 or #2 or all the others who are great posters on here and whose opinions I respect would have posted it I would have said the EXACT same thing.

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10-23-2003, 08:21 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hmminvisiblecola
ok windowlicker no problem why was his percentage .899 so bad last year. let me guess bad defense in front of him. its a moot point if he finishes with a bad one again this year how can the oil justify paying him his option for next year. he does not make the saves when we need them.
i guess they cant justify paying him that option. if we agree that Oil D is so bad it does not matter whos back there, i say give Pete Peeters a shot, or better yet put a chimp on skates and use the extra money to sign mike comrie. (sarcasm level-high)

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10-23-2003, 08:23 PM
  #28
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i give up sorry thome but anything else i say is hot air. take it easy.

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10-23-2003, 08:24 PM
  #29
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I think the problem with Salo is not as much his play but the team does not play for him anymore when he is in net they just don't give it their all(or so it seems this season). I don't know if they are so confident in him they feel they don't have to play d infront of him or they don't believe in him anymore and just don't give' er. He did play poorly in last years playoffs and has let in about 2-3 soft goals this season in what 5 and 1/2 games, I am not ready to say he sucks and trade him but it is getting closer for me personally. I would also like to say Salo is a really good positional goalie he anticipates fantasticly but when thrown curve balls a.k.a. unexpected turn-overs & defensive lapses& bouncing pucks, he has trouble making saves these things will always occur with a young Oilers team I think we might be better served with a more reflex oriented goalie if u know what I mean.

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10-23-2003, 08:29 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
I think the problem with Salo is not as much his play but the team does not play for him anymore when he is in net they just don't give it their all(or so it seems this season). I don't know if they are so confident in him they feel they don't have to play d infront of him or they don't believe in him anymore and just don't give' er. He did play poorly in last years playoffs and has let in about 2-3 soft goals this season in what 5 and 1/2 games, I am not ready to say he sucks and trade him but it is getting closer for me personally. I would also like to say Salo is a really good positional goalie he anticipates fantasticly but when thrown curve balls a.k.a. unexpected turn-overs & defensive lapses& bouncing pucks, he has trouble making saves these things will always occur with a young Oilers team I think we might be better served with a more reflex oriented goalie if u know what I mean.
They seemed to play stronger in front of Jussi.

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10-23-2003, 09:49 PM
  #31
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Aside from looking just plain uncomfortable in there, especially when making saves, the only problem I have with him is timing. The team just finished honoring a goalie whose trademark was never giving up the untimely goal. Tuesday, it was the Weight goal. The Oilers had the momentum, get a bad call against them. Instead of killing it and moving on, he lets in a stinker, and the bubble is burst. Tonight, the team just gets back in the game, the starter goes down, the team is doing a good job killing the major, and boom another stinker. The same could be said throughout the series with Dallas, it wasn't all his fault, but his brain farts or whatever always come at the worst time.

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10-23-2003, 10:00 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
They seemed to play stronger in front of Jussi.
I always wonder about this kind of thing. I mean, the stats from Jussi/Conklin over the previous two seasons were much better than Salo. You kinda have to wonder why.

Did the backups get to play against, on average, easier opponents? Did they get more defensive support, ie. did the team tighten up in front of them more so than Salo? Do they run and gun more because Salo was in the pipes, and that's why there are more goals scored against?



Or were/are they just flat out better than Salo for 2 full seasons (this being, potentially, the start of a third) now?

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Old
10-23-2003, 11:00 PM
  #33
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It is a pretty commen thing that teams play harder in front of their back up as they know/think they need to step it up to make up for not having their #1 in.

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10-24-2003, 02:52 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmminvisiblecola
lack of leadership, no discipline, poor goaltending, awful powerplay, and some of the other players are struggling, chimera horcoff york cross etc
i'm only going to say something that will piss of lawndemon (so i guess i'll say it ) we need somebody like Adam Oates.

Why? coz he has the attributes that can cover leadership etc. I don't know how many remember but i made that massive three page report before the boards got exhumed all on leadership and basically all these points were raised when concerning the departure of Weight. Doug was the leader, gave discipline that leads to improved confidence and positional play of all the players which also means they dont struggle (not totally but not like now) and he was our pp qb.

Now Oates can provide all that, like i said then which is almost 7months ago and like im saying now Smith is a great player but not the right captain for THIS team, we need a figuirehead and someone who can be the DIRECT go to guy in either scoring or setting up and who happens to have EXPERIENCE.

Don't worry I've also taken into account our defence was much experience 2 years ago when Weight was here last, BUT they still made mistakes and were inconsistent just now they are more with better forwards.

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10-24-2003, 02:58 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easilee 27
Aside from looking just plain uncomfortable in there, especially when making saves, the only problem I have with him is timing. The team just finished honoring a goalie whose trademark was never giving up the untimely goal. Tuesday, it was the Weight goal. The Oilers had the momentum, get a bad call against them. Instead of killing it and moving on, he lets in a stinker, and the bubble is burst. Tonight, the team just gets back in the game, the starter goes down, the team is doing a good job killing the major, and boom another stinker. The same could be said throughout the series with Dallas, it wasn't all his fault, but his brain farts or whatever always come at the worst time.
To be honest you all are giving way too much flak to Salo. Tell me something momentum may get killed by one player but then you have 18 other players that can build it straight back up again.

Reference I hear you say? i'll give you one(since my hockey knowledge is poor i'll use another TEAM sport). Back in 1966 the FIFA World Cup finals had England vs Germany. The english had been leading for much of the game and at the last minute the germans pulled their way back and levelled the game. Just before the extra time periods during the break the english team rallied together to rebuild the momentum they had for much of the match. What happened they pulled back and won showing heart, desire and the hunger.

That comes from leadership and influence, they both go hand in hand. You could for arguments sake have Sakic here and nobody listen to him or you could have Messier here and everyone listen to him. Who will be the better captain? Messier of course coz he's just as experienced but has more influence. These are both the qualities Weight had and he would have rallied the team together and made another run for their target not collapse and fold. Thats what a bunch of kids do.

So in short the TEAM COLLAPSING has as much responsibility to do with the TEAM and NOT JUST salo.

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Old
10-24-2003, 03:00 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
I always wonder about this kind of thing. I mean, the stats from Jussi/Conklin over the previous two seasons were much better than Salo. You kinda have to wonder why.

Did the backups get to play against, on average, easier opponents? Did they get more defensive support, ie. did the team tighten up in front of them more so than Salo? Do they run and gun more because Salo was in the pipes, and that's why there are more goals scored against?



Or were/are they just flat out better than Salo for 2 full seasons (this being, potentially, the start of a third) now?

i think you were right when you said that the team was visibly playing better defensively for Markannen than Salo if i remember correct from last season speeds.

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10-24-2003, 03:12 AM
  #37
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I only started watching from the Foote goal. It probably was a bad goal and he should have been square to the shooter because he had enough time to slide accross. But let's face it, one-timers are difficult to save for any goalie.

I think the issue here is that I can't remember when the last time Tommy's won us a game. That's all. I mean, he does make 3.9M a year. I don't want to harp on the financials and everything but that's a fact. Everybody crapped on the Habs for giving Theodore that huge contract, but look what is hapening now. The Canadiens are where there are because of goaltending. They are putting the puck in the net because the forwards are playing knowing even if they are slow backchecking, Theo will bailed them out. So more pressure can be put offensively. I just finsihed my summer hockey league a few months ago and we had the best goalie in the league and let me tell ya, it makes a world of difference.

I do agree that Salo's been left to save the 3 and 4th shots. Ferraro said something good last night: The d-men were getting caught playing goaltender instead of going after the shooter. I took that as maybe the confidence in Salo just isn't there. So the defense is hesitant in going after the shooter and everything gets scewed up.

This post is way too long (on my 3rd cup of coffee ) but I just think that although Salo hasn't been terrible, he hasn't been a $3.9M goalie and he would probably be the first to admit. So the question is: Can a small market team afford that? I mean, if Conks can do as good a job as Salo is doing right now, may be huge savings for the Oilers. I saw Valiquette play vs the Sens in Ottawa one year. I had really good seast and he was amazing. The Isles won 2-1 that game.

And I understand all the fans defending Salo. I have him on my team in my fantasy draft and I picked him because I'm a fan of Salo. But any one who says that Salo is as good as he was two years ago is looking at things through rose-colored glasses.

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10-24-2003, 06:22 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
And I understand all the fans defending Salo. I have him on my team in my fantasy draft and I picked him because I'm a fan of Salo. But any one who says that Salo is as good as he was two years ago is looking at things through rose-colored glasses.
No one that is defending Salo has ONCE said that he is as good as he was two years ago? Please find me a post that says that.

We are saying he wasn't responsible for the loss last night and anybody that says he was is looking for a scapegoat!

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10-24-2003, 06:30 AM
  #39
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Dr. Van Nostrin.

When you're in a fantasy pool, pick with your head and not with your heart. :p

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10-24-2003, 07:05 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
Dr. Van Nostrin.

When you're in a fantasy pool, pick with your head and not with your heart. :p
Yeah I know. The seasons not over tho. I'm still hoping.

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Old
10-24-2003, 07:41 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi_sultan
i think you were right when you said that the team was visibly playing better defensively for Markannen than Salo if i remember correct from last season speeds.
I don't know of any stats to indicate that this is the case. It could well be any of the other things.

In looking around the league at stats from last season, it's not too often that the backup had better stats than the starter, but it has happened 2 years in a row in EDM (3 if you count this year so far, which I'm not), with Salo the starter and jussi/ conklin as the backups.

backup with better stats happened 13 times last year, with Tampa Bay, San Jose, LA - kind of iffy, who was their starter, the 3rd goalie had the best stats though, ANA, VAN, BUF, MON, BOS, STL, DET, PIT, NJD, and EDM.

Worth noting that even still nearly every starter had better stats than Salo, which indicates to me that Markkanen should definitely have received more games last season.

in 01/02, backup with better stats happened 6 times , with DAL (Turco as backup, let their starter belfour go UFA the next summer), LA, VAN, COL, EDM, CHI, NJD.

The only teams to have this happen 2 years in a row are LA (Potvin), VAN (Cloutier), NJD (Brodeur), and EDM (Salo). Brodeur was only beat in his first year by a 5 game performance by Vanbiesbrouck, and is truly such a workhorse that comparing against backup might not be all that meaningful.

Brodeur put up sv% of 2.15/906 and 2.02/914, Potvin 2.31/907 and 2.66/894, Cloutier 2.43/901 and 2.42/908 (second year was only beat by a 7 game stint from auld, beat the regular backup skudra handily in stats), and Salo 2.22/913 and 2.71/899.




**Note** I did not include any backup with less than 3 appearances.


You could make a semi-credible case, IMO, that the starter this year should be Jussi, with Salo gone, rather than vice versa, and that doesn't even take into account the 3 mil more per year Salo "earns".

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10-24-2003, 07:59 AM
  #42
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Not that I'm pro-trade Salo, because you all know I'm the farthest thing from it, BUT doesn't LA look like genius picking up Cechmanek for a SECOND!!!! I mean *****, I would have given a second and third to get this guy - he's one of the best regular season goalies in the NHL, and our team hasn't proven itself in the playoffs either, so together they would have to grow and achieve new succes.

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10-24-2003, 08:09 AM
  #43
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hopefully salo can pull it all together but i reiterate he is not worth the money right now and if the right deal came along or if anybody wanted him at all, lowe should jump at the chance. saves the team a lot of money and allows the youth movement to continue. either way i look at it, lowe is retooling this team and maybe salo should be let go to a contender perhaps.

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10-24-2003, 08:13 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmminvisiblecola
hopefully salo can pull it all together but i reiterate he is not worth the money right now and if the right deal came along or if anybody wanted him at all, lowe should jump at the chance. saves the team a lot of money and allows the youth movement to continue. either way i look at it, lowe is retooling this team and maybe salo should be let go to a contender perhaps.
Retooling yes, rebuilding no. Lowe wants to make the playoffs - and he says that they should win a round in the playoffs. While I am hesitant about getting into a playoff spot that will keep us out of an uphill battle - I think that the playoffs are certainly an atainable and requried goal. We'd need somebody who could show that they are capable of taking us to the playoffs. But the one thing I look at is - who would be interested in him right now? There ARE lots of cheap goalies out there, and Salo's play so far this season hasn't driven up his value by any means.

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10-24-2003, 08:31 AM
  #45
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to make the playoffs right now the oilers need a proven veteran with leadership to come in and calm these young guys down. honestly thome this team needs a veteran presence. i have bandied about names like oates however these guys want a lot of money and that is something the oilers cannot dole out. the only other avenue is a trade. i like brind'amour in carolina but i know i know it won't happen although his struggles with injuries the last couple of years would scare lowe away. just yanking at straws trying to think of guys who would help this team.

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10-24-2003, 08:32 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmminvisiblecola
to make the playoffs right now the oilers need a proven veteran with leadership to come in and calm these young guys down. honestly thome this team needs a veteran presence. i have bandied about names like oates however these guys want a lot of money and that is something the oilers cannot dole out. the only other avenue is a trade. i like brind'amour in carolina but i know i know it won't happen although his struggles with injuries the last couple of years would scare lowe away. just yanking at straws trying to think of guys who would help this team.
I see your point, and agree to a less radical extent. I strongly feel that this current teams can make it to the playoffs. But getting that veteran presense would be big for the Oilers getting there and going deeper in the playoffs.

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10-24-2003, 08:33 AM
  #47
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good point thome retooling is a better word however lowe is telling the fans what we want to hear. i do not hear many teams before the beginning of the season saying no way are we making the playoffs no matter how bad they are. i hope the oil can make the playoffs but a first round exit would happen again, i harp on it again leadership would help.

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10-24-2003, 08:41 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmminvisiblecola
good point thome retooling is a better word however lowe is telling the fans what we want to hear. i do not hear many teams before the beginning of the season saying no way are we making the playoffs no matter how bad they are. i hope the oil can make the playoffs but a first round exit would happen again, i harp on it again leadership would help.
I'm 100% with you on the leadership. And if it were any other Owner/Owner ship group in the NHL that was OUR owners, I would be making a BIG BIG BIG fuss that they don't allow Lowe to go and get a good veteran to help. These owners are doing their all to help the Oilers, and i think they ARE doing their part. I just wish we had a Billionaire who could afford to lose four or five million a year so that we could get some vet allstar.
P.S. I hope and pray that the Ducks don't make the playoffs as it will be yet another example of how the latest free agents don't bring success to a team or provide the next step.

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10-24-2003, 08:43 AM
  #49
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i certainly dont blame the owners these guys have been great holding in and waiting for next year. no doubt i wish a guy like eugene melnyk would come along but then that is just wishful thinking.

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10-24-2003, 08:46 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmminvisiblecola
i certainly dont blame the owners these guys have been great holding in and waiting for next year. no doubt i wish a guy like eugene melnyk would come along but then that is just wishful thinking.
I wouldn't mind that Russian buy (frig... his name is on the tip of my tongue!!!!) as along as he didn't make pointless and team destroying trades JUST to get Russians. I'd be fine with him having that preference (I to, take preference to Russian players, I will admit). But if he were to go out and trade say Smyth for V. Kozlov JUST because he's Russian then I'm affraid I would have trouble supporting that team. Also - would Lowe's job be safe if he came? He'd probably want to have the NHLs first Russian GM.

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