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02-20-2006, 04:02 PM
  #1
cjdv16
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Kenny Jonsson

What is everyone's take on KJ thus far in the Olympics?

I think he's been the defensive stallwort for Team Sweden and is on the ice in all key defensive situations. I miss seeing this guy in an Isles uniform and think he'd do quite well in the new NHL.

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02-20-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdv16
What is everyone's take on KJ thus far in the Olympics?

I think he's been the defensive stallwort for Team Sweden and is on the ice in all key defensive situations. I miss seeing this guy in an Isles uniform and think he'd do quite well in the new NHL.
I think KJ deciding to stay in Sweden this season instead of coming to the Isles was the single biggest negative going into this season.

He is one of the smartest players to ever put on the blue and orange IMO.

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02-20-2006, 04:16 PM
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Same old Kenny Jonsson, solid reliable defender but not the kind of player who can do much to make a team win by himself and never the player who can put a team on his back in a big game and win. Good supporting player in the right circumstances.

He's done with the NHL for good apparently, so we have no idea how he would play in the new NHL and it's extremely unlikely we will ever find out. Like his brother Jorgen Jonsson these are players who prefer to finish out their careers in their home country.

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02-20-2006, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Same old Kenny Jonsson, solid reliable defender but not the kind of player who can do much to make a team win by himself and never the player who can put a team on his back in a big game and win. Good supporting player in the right circumstances.

He's done with the NHL for good apparently, so we have no idea how he would play in the new NHL and it's extremely unlikely we will ever find out. Like his brother Jorgen Jonsson these are players who prefer to finish out their careers in their home country.
I think KJ is the kind of player that is so smart and steady that you really don't notice him out there.....until he is gone.

The only thing missing from his game was a mean streak IMO. Something all elite defencemen need to have.

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02-20-2006, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanson
The only thing missing from his game was a mean streak IMO. Something all elite defencemen need to have.
Lidstrom doesn't have a mean streak. Redden either.

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02-20-2006, 04:52 PM
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I think Lidstrom and Kenny both had underrated physical games. With both players, you got dmen who are so smart positionally, that they only way to get to the net is to go through them. Neither is a crease-clearing type, and neither will crunch you in the corner. But, neither guy is soft either.

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02-20-2006, 05:04 PM
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Without a doubt Redden is a little tougher then Johnsson and Lidstrom and plays his game a little more physical then both.

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02-20-2006, 05:16 PM
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I'll disagree. I think all three players are quietly tough. Lidstrom and Kenny J. withstood a lot of punishment over the year and continued to play their games nonetheless.

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02-20-2006, 06:03 PM
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I heard the commentators, I believe it was Mike Emrick say that Kenny decided not to return to the NHL because of his problems with concussions.

In a cruel twist of fate, he suffered a major concussion this year playing in the SEL. It's unfortunate how being concussed once makes one so much more vulnerable to repeated head trauma.

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02-20-2006, 06:40 PM
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i miss kenny. Like someone said, he was one of those players you never noticed until someone mentioned it to you directly. Thats good sometimes, it means he doesnt screw up. Wish him all the best in his future endeavors, but a quick 1 season trip to the Isles would be uber.

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02-20-2006, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dok101
I heard the commentators, I believe it was Mike Emrick say that Kenny decided not to return to the NHL because of his problems with concussions.

In a cruel twist of fate, he suffered a major concussion this year playing in the SEL. It's unfortunate how being concussed once makes one so much more vulnerable to repeated head trauma.

Kenny used to always leave himself open after a hit. When he broke in with Toronto, I figured he'd be gone from the league in a few years.

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02-20-2006, 08:40 PM
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The guy must be considered among the best defenseman ever to suit up with the Islanders behind Denis Potvin.
1. D. Potvin
2. K. Jonsson
3. D. Langevin
4. S. Persson
5. K. Morrow

This Islander team would be much better with him.

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02-20-2006, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Islanders4Cups
The guy must be considered among the best defenseman ever to suit up with the Islanders behind Denis Potvin.
1. D. Potvin
2. K. Jonsson
3. D. Langevin
4. S. Persson
5. K. Morrow

This Islander team would be much better with him.
Great list,but I think Uwe Kruppe might fit in there too.

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02-20-2006, 09:11 PM
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Some other great Isles dmen who don't get enough credit: Steve Konroyd, Gerald Diduck (very underrated), Gerry Hart, Tomas Jonnson.

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02-21-2006, 06:25 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Some other great Isles dmen who don't get enough credit: Steve Konroyd, Gerald Diduck (very underrated), Gerry Hart, Tomas Jonnson.
Come on, where is Bert Marshall!!!

I lived next door to him as a kid and was in his fan club - you know, all the banners and buttons and everything. Never was much of a skater, and had no shot to speak of, but was always in the right place at the right time. His strongest trait, he was probably the nicest guy you would ever meet.

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02-21-2006, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I'll disagree. I think all three players are quietly tough. Lidstrom and Kenny J. withstood a lot of punishment over the year and continued to play their games nonetheless.
I've watched a ton of Detroit games over the years on Centre Ice and Lidstrom is more physical, more often than KJ ever was in my opinion. As stated before, Redden is more physical than both of them.

There are always exceptions (KJ, Lidstrom, Leetch, etc) but give me an elite defenceman with grit over these guys any day. Potvin had a mean streak and still does (I've played against him in "non-checking" tourneys here in Florida). Chara really rose to the next level when he started using his size and taking it to other players. This is also one of the things that makes a guy like Chelios so good when he probably isn't the most gifted player.

I guess I was wrong in saying that you can't be elite without a mean streak. That being said, it sure doesn't hurt.

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02-21-2006, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanson
I've watched a ton of Detroit games over the years on Centre Ice and Lidstrom is more physical, more often than KJ ever was in my opinion. As stated before, Redden is more physical than both of them.

There are always exceptions (KJ, Lidstrom, Leetch, etc) but give me an elite defenceman with grit over these guys any day. Potvin had a mean streak and still does (I've played against him in "non-checking" tourneys here in Florida). Chara really rose to the next level when he started using his size and taking it to other players. This is also one of the things that makes a guy like Chelios so good when he probably isn't the most gifted player.

I guess I was wrong in saying that you can't be elite without a mean streak. That being said, it sure doesn't hurt.
I agree with your final statement, it can help to have a mean streak. But if you take two guys with equal abilities, I don't necessarily think the guy with the mean streak will be the more effective. A lot of times a mean streak can lead to mistakes: bad penalties, leaving position for the big hit, etc. Personally I don't necessarily equate physical play with good defense. Kenny Jonsson for example could shut Bertuzzi down as well as anyone in the league, and often did it better because he didn't try to do it physically -- hit Bertuzzi too much and make him mad, he just becomes more difficult to contain. More than once after a game vs the Nucks a fan would stop by and comment on how good of a job Kenny did on Bert.

But at the same time, I do think physicality can be very useful. If you can use it to intimidate ala Stevens, you can force forwards to change their game, play timidly. Keeping the crease clear is of course key to helping out your goalie, though with the new rules that's become even more difficult to do. Chara already had a mean streak before he landed in Ottawa, he was one of the league leaders in hits and fought. Chelios was an extremely talented defenseman, and still is. He's not nearly as mean as he once was, but is stilla a key defenseman on team USA because he plays very intelligently.

And as far as Lidstrom and Redden go, they may be more physical -- though I disagree with you about Lidstrom -- but they still come a good sight short of a mean streak. When they hit, it's just to get a guy off the puck or to move them from the net. They never look for the hit, it's just another tool to them. And they'll use it, but they're not big hitters and they don't want to hurt anyone with them (I don't even mean that in an injury sense, just make the guy really feel it). Which is how I define a mean streak. That doesn't make them soft by any stretch, just not mean.

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02-21-2006, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I'll disagree. I think all three players are quietly tough. Lidstrom and Kenny J. withstood a lot of punishment over the year and continued to play their games nonetheless.
I think that's an interesting distinction, Darth. I think Kenny, like Parrish, is not really physical in the sense of dishing out hits himself, but both are tough in the sense of withstanding a lot of punishment from others.

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02-21-2006, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7:11 of OT
Come on, where is Bert Marshall!!!

I lived next door to him as a kid and was in his fan club - you know, all the banners and buttons and everything. Never was much of a skater, and had no shot to speak of, but was always in the right place at the right time. His strongest trait, he was probably the nicest guy you would ever meet.

I remember after Marshall scored with this floating shot from the point, a reporter asked JP Parise if Marshall would get credit for the goal or if it had been a tip-in by a forward. Parise responded with something to the effect of : "You kiding? If I tried to tip in one of Moose's shots, it would stop....".


Last edited by Darth Milbury: 02-21-2006 at 10:54 AM.
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02-21-2006, 09:48 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanson
I've watched a ton of Detroit games over the years on Centre Ice and Lidstrom is more physical, more often than KJ ever was in my opinion. As stated before, Redden is more physical than both of them.

There are always exceptions (KJ, Lidstrom, Leetch, etc) but give me an elite defenceman with grit over these guys any day. Potvin had a mean streak and still does (I've played against him in "non-checking" tourneys here in Florida). Chara really rose to the next level when he started using his size and taking it to other players. This is also one of the things that makes a guy like Chelios so good when he probably isn't the most gifted player.

I guess I was wrong in saying that you can't be elite without a mean streak. That being said, it sure doesn't hurt.
I think our disagreement is one of definition. Lidstrom and KJ are really positioning defensemen. Their game is all about skating, anticipation, and reading the other guys. But, because they are always in position there is only one way to the net: through their bodies. I do thnk Kenny was involved in a lot of body contact during a typical game - but he didn't initiate much.

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02-21-2006, 10:17 AM
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I agree with your final statement, it can help to have a mean streak. But if you take two guys with equal abilities, I don't necessarily think the guy with the mean streak will be the more effective
I respectfully disagree with this statement. I'll take the guy with the mean streak with everything else being equal. Intimidation is still a big part of the game of hockey IMO. I would much rather have faced a guy with the same talent as Scott Stevens but without the mean streak that the actual Scott Stevens had.

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02-21-2006, 10:26 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I think our disagreement is one of definition. Lidstrom and KJ are really positioning defensemen. Their game is all about skating, anticipation, and reading the other guys. But, because they are always in position there is only one way to the net: through their bodies. I do thnk Kenny was involved in a lot of body contact during a typical game - but he didn't initiate much.
Agreed.

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02-21-2006, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanson
I respectfully disagree with this statement. I'll take the guy with the mean streak with everything else being equal. Intimidation is still a big part of the game of hockey IMO. I would much rather have faced a guy with the same talent as Scott Stevens but without the mean streak that the actual Scott Stevens had.
I think you're underestimating how much talent Stevens had. Keep in mind, when I say talent, I don't strictly mean a guy that can dipsy doodle all over the place. Things like defensive positioning, intelligence and the ability to play physical are included in that. From a defensive stand point, the only guy I think that was as talented as Stevens was over the past decade is Lidstrom. I don't think Stevens was more effective in the defensive zone than Lidstrom. I also think they would've made more or less the perfect defensive pairing.

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02-21-2006, 11:52 AM
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what pains me is the fact that lidstrom threatened to jump ship from the nhl back to sweden a few years ago, but never did it.

KJ's loss was crippling to this defense and team.

MM should have given him whatever he wanted (CA stock perhaps????). although, clearly KJ's M-O was not money and was instead family.

somebody shouldda slapped his wife for getting in his ear.

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02-21-2006, 12:06 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Seph
I think you're underestimating how much talent Stevens had. Keep in mind, when I say talent, I don't strictly mean a guy that can dipsy doodle all over the place. Things like defensive positioning, intelligence and the ability to play physical are included in that. From a defensive stand point, the only guy I think that was as talented as Stevens was over the past decade is Lidstrom. I don't think Stevens was more effective in the defensive zone than Lidstrom. I also think they would've made more or less the perfect defensive pairing.
What makes you think I underestimate Stevens talent? I think he was one of the greatest D-men to play the game.

If you asked me if I would take Stevens or Lidstrom I'd take Stevens any day of the week. If I was an NHL forward I'd much rather face Lidstrom than Stevens.

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