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Old
02-19-2006, 10:56 PM
  #1
Zil
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HF Prospects 1-10

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...readed&order=0
Lundqvist's number 6. Why is he behind Phaneuf?

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Old
02-19-2006, 11:13 PM
  #2
FLYLine24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilvikingRangerFan
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...readed&order=0
Lundqvist's number 6. Why is he behind Phaneuf?

I knew they would rate Lehtonen ahead of Lundqvist, they've been hyping Lehtonen for the past few years as the "best future goalie"...didnt see them giving that stance up on him.

For the record, I would have rated Phaneuf ahead of Lundqvist as well. Phaneuf ahead of Malkin though....probably would have switched those 2.

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Old
02-19-2006, 11:35 PM
  #3
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personally speaking

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88
I knew they would rate Lehtonen ahead of Lundqvist, they've been hyping Lehtonen for the past few years as the "best future goalie"...didnt see them giving that stance up on him.

For the record, I would have rated Phaneuf ahead of Lundqvist as well. Phaneuf ahead of Malkin though....probably would have switched those 2.
I think that I may have slotted Malkin a little lower due to the top 5 aside from Malkin have all shown that they can excel on the NHL level.

AO
Sid
Dion
Lundqvist (better numbers than Kari)
Lehtonen
Malkin

would be my top 6

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Old
02-19-2006, 11:39 PM
  #4
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let me further state

Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
I think that I may have slotted Malkin a little lower due to the top 5 aside from Malkin have all shown that they can excel on the NHL level.

AO
Sid
Dion
Lundqvist (better numbers than Kari)
Lehtonen
Malkin

would be my top 6
that Production changes everything. If Malkin were to come in and play as well or better than the top 4 then someone would get lowered

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Old
02-19-2006, 11:43 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilvikingRangerFan
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...readed&order=0
Lundqvist's number 6. Why is he behind Phaneuf?
Wow, talk about anti-New York bias. Lundqvist is #6? *** are they smoking!

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Old
02-19-2006, 11:44 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hfbk2006
Wow, talk about anti-New York bias. Lundqvist is #6? *** are they smoking!

Eh, don't get worked up over it. It really doesn't mean anything.

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Old
02-19-2006, 11:47 PM
  #7
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It does seem a little silly to place Lehtonen ahead of Henke.

I'm with above poster that would have had Malkin lower on the basis that all others on the list are NHLers.

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Old
02-19-2006, 11:53 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hfbk2006
Wow, talk about anti-New York bias. Lundqvist is #6? *** are they smoking!
Who cares where they put him, so long as he keeps being the best goalie in the world.

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Old
02-20-2006, 01:06 AM
  #9
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It's foolish to even have guys like Phaneuf, Lundqvist, Crosby, and Ovechkin listed as "prospects" anymore. They've locked up spots on their teams' rosters and in many are their teams' best players.

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Old
02-20-2006, 06:20 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
It's foolish to even have guys like Phaneuf, Lundqvist, Crosby, and Ovechkin listed as "prospects" anymore. They've locked up spots on their teams' rosters and in many are their teams' best players.
Agreed--however Lundqvist's numbers this season would lead me to put him over Lehtonen. If Lehtonen can someday put up comparable numbers to Henrik's then it would be time to revisit who is better. That's a tall order for anyone. Right now choosing between them both I'd take Henrik.

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Old
02-20-2006, 07:32 AM
  #11
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but lehtonen has more "potential", current play be dammed!


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Old
02-20-2006, 07:42 AM
  #12
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Why isnt Fedor Tyutin on that team... he has played the whole year but so has Crosby and Ovechkin

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Old
02-20-2006, 08:10 AM
  #13
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Once again HF's shows how utterly ridiculous their ratings are

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88
I knew they would rate Lehtonen ahead of Lundqvist, they've been hyping Lehtonen for the past few years as the "best future goalie"...didnt see them giving that stance up on him.

For the record, I would have rated Phaneuf ahead of Lundqvist as well. Phaneuf ahead of Malkin though....probably would have switched those 2.
Both Phaneuf and Lundqvist have shown already what they can do in the NHL which is the ultimate goal of all these prospects, yet players who haven't either performed as well, or are not deemed ready yet, have been selected over those players that are in the running for the Calder and in Lundqvist case the Vezina are rated behind them! As some point actual performance far outweighs potential!

The same case is made in the ridiculous placing of Parise ahead of Prucha. Some may say that Prucha may never get any better, or he could be a flash in the pan ( I personally don't think so, I've been tracking him for 3 yrs), but how can the same logic not be applied to Parise? How does anyone know what you see in him today is all that there is, a son version of the father, an average NHLer! What a JOKE!

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Old
02-20-2006, 08:16 AM
  #14
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If they were omitted I wouldn't have a beef.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
It's foolish to even have guys like Phaneuf, Lundqvist, Crosby, and Ovechkin listed as "prospects" anymore. They've locked up spots on their teams' rosters and in many are their teams' best players.
How guys that have established themselves and are in the running for the Calder or Vezina can be ranked below people who haven't even established themselves in the league is friggin joke!

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Old
02-20-2006, 08:34 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noonan25
Why isnt Fedor Tyutin on that team... he has played the whole year but so has Crosby and Ovechkin
i don't think they consider him a prospect anymore or something, since he also played last season. though technically he is still a rookie this year since he only played 25 games last season in the NHL

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Old
02-20-2006, 08:53 AM
  #16
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It's not HF, it's the very idea of a difinitive ranking of prospects that's ridiculous. Everyone wants to see these lists, though, so HF has to make them.

Can you reasonably rate Lehtonen above Lundqvist? Yes. Lehtonen has the ultimate package of size, quickness and flexibility for a goalie plus a history of tremendous success at every level. He projects to be a superstar and his potential is through the roof.

Can you reasonably rate Lundqvist above Lehtonen? Yes. Lundqvist has outplayed almost every other goalie in the league this season and has the pedigree to show that this season is not a fluke. He can conceivably continue to play at the élite level for years to come.

Any rating of prospects is a purely subjective and utterly indefensible mish-mash of these two strands of thought.

That's why they're so much fun to argue about:

I would have dropped Malkin below Phaneuf, too.

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Old
02-20-2006, 01:04 PM
  #17
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This is kinda OT - but what qualifies one as a prospect and when do they stop being a prospect. I'm guessing Tyutin isn't because he's played enough NHL games, but what about someone like Tim Thomas in Boston, who has limited NHL experience but is pretty old? Those kind of situations always bugged me.

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Old
02-20-2006, 02:36 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCanada77
This is kinda OT - but what qualifies one as a prospect and when do they stop being a prospect. I'm guessing Tyutin isn't because he's played enough NHL games, but what about someone like Tim Thomas in Boston, who has limited NHL experience but is pretty old? Those kind of situations always bugged me.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/whatmakesaprospect.php

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Old
02-20-2006, 03:41 PM
  #19
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This is the worst prospect list I have ever seen.

The so-called rules for what defines a prospect make no sense and contribute to the wackiness of the list.

Add in the obvious bias, the lack of true scouting or NHL management input and this list becomes simply a list made up by some hockey fans.

I guess I expected better from a site claiming to be about prospects.

I guess I was wrong.

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Old
02-20-2006, 04:34 PM
  #20
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Because it's a prospects list, I think (as stated by someone previous), potential and actual performance, get mixed up, and the ranking #'s never seem right.

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Old
02-21-2006, 05:34 AM
  #21
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I think your wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoothepuck
Because it's a prospects list, I think (as stated by someone previous), potential and actual performance, get mixed up, and the ranking #'s never seem right.
actual performance doesn't even make it into the process. How else do you rationalize the rankings of those players who have excelled behind players who have done squat at the NHL level.

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Old
02-21-2006, 05:48 AM
  #22
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Personal opinions on the list aside, these things are hard to do. Many times you can argue things a million different ways and it doesnt matter.

Once you start getting to the creme de la creme prospects, it's pretty much grasping at straws and subjective.

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Old
02-21-2006, 06:16 AM
  #23
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They're not hard to do...

they're nearly impossible. It's like deciding which position on the team is more important. The guy with the most points potential is almost always going to get the top spot - ahead of the guy that's going to stop the goal (defenseman, goalie, etc.). So which position is more important? And sometimes the guy that hasn't played in the NHL yet will get ranked higher than one that has because there's more that non-NHLer hasn't blown it yet. I give credit to those who try and put their reputation on the line because no doubt their judgment will be questioned.

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Old
02-21-2006, 01:57 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hfbk2006
Wow, talk about anti-New York bias. Lundqvist is #6? *** are they smoking!
I was thinking the same exact thing.

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Old
02-22-2006, 07:20 PM
  #25
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I was looking at another site that had done basically the

same type of thing. They went by position. Lundqvist was the #1 rated goalie prospect, Atlanta's was #5. Prucha was the 5th rated forward, Parise #31! D. Moore was either #30, or #32. Tyutin was the #4 rated defenseman. I'm not sure but I think their's was based off of pro scouts, GMs, coaches, etc. I may be way off on that.

But it is interesting to see how far apart they are compared to HFs.

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