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Gretzky, Take it Hard on Yourself!

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Old
02-23-2006, 01:39 PM
  #1
Joe Cole
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Gretzky, Take it Hard on Yourself!

Not to parody another thread, but....

When you take the glory of a win, you take to grief when you lose.

As good as he has done for himself and the country in world competitions.... he does not get a free pass. No one ever should.

He said it himself before the tournement, "If we win, no one will discuss the player choices, if we do not, we will be held responsible."

So...step up to the plate... take your swing at the piñata.

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02-23-2006, 02:37 PM
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Yeah.. but the real problem is everybody proclaiming Gretzky a God because he put together a team in 2002.

Well whoopti friggin do.. I don't think Gretz should be blamed for 2006. I also don't think he should be glorified for 2002. He did a fine job in both instances.

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02-23-2006, 02:38 PM
  #3
Form and Substance
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It must be pretty hard on Gretzky these days.

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02-23-2006, 02:46 PM
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There is plenty of blame to go around. Its crazy to pin it all on Gretz. Atleast someone has stood up and taken blame. I love his passion to this country and this game, he has done more good than harm IMO, and would love to see him at the head in 2010.

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02-23-2006, 02:50 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aymand
Yeah.. but the real problem is everybody proclaiming Gretzky a God because he put together a team in 2002.

Well whoopti friggin do.. I don't think Gretz should be blamed for 2006. I also don't think he should be glorified for 2002. He did a fine job in both instances.
Don't agree. True that everything could not be his fault but he adapted well in 2002, didn't adapt at all for 2006. Great job in 02, poor job in 06....But if the players that were there would've played better and if the coaches would've prepared their player adequately for the qualifications rounds, we would not be there today.

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02-23-2006, 02:58 PM
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his biggest mistake was naming quinn the head coach in 02'
luckily our team was so awesome that year, that even with the questionable coaching the raw talent pulled through and we won. so even though we didn't suffer in salt lake, we definitely felt the wrath this year. With quinn being gold medal winning coach...wayne HAD to go with Quinn this time around. Wayne is just too nice, and shows too much loyalty. He showed too much respect for the undeserving veterans while undermined the deserving ones (shanahan, kariya).

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02-23-2006, 03:01 PM
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I blame Rejean "Peanut" Houle, Patrick Traverse, Mario Tremblay, Patrice Brisebois, Serge Savard, Joe Juneau, Murray Baron, Andreas Dackell, Andre Racicot, Gordie Dywer, Randy McKay, Peter Popovic, Radek Bonk, Niklas Sundstrum, Mathieu Dandenault, Donald Audette, Mike Ribeiro, Mark Streit, Craig Rivet, Sebastien Bordeleau, Benoit Brunet, Andrei Kovalenko, Sheldon Souray, Ron Hainsey, Sergio Momesso, Christian Laflamme and finally Doug Wickenheiser.

Wait, what was the question?

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02-23-2006, 03:05 PM
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lol, sergio momesso was on the habs? i just remember that he was a stud for the canucks in the 94' cup drive.

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02-23-2006, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
I blame Rejean "Peanut" Houle, Patrick Traverse, Mario Tremblay, Patrice Brisebois, Serge Savard, Joe Juneau, Murray Baron, Andreas Dackell, Andre Racicot, Gordie Dywer, Randy McKay, Peter Popovic, Radek Bonk, Niklas Sundstrum, Mathieu Dandenault, Donald Audette, Mike Ribeiro, Mark Streit, Craig Rivet, Sebastien Bordeleau, Benoit Brunet, Andrei Kovalenko, Sheldon Souray, Ron Hainsey, Sergio Momesso, Christian Laflamme and finally Doug Wickenheiser.

Wait, what was the question?
How could you ever forget about Robert Dirk and Johan Witehall is beyond me

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02-23-2006, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wholefnshow
lol, sergio momesso was on the habs? i just remember that he was a stud for the canucks in the 94' cup drive.
Sergio sullied a Habs jersey in the mid eighties. If I recall correctly he wore number 36, Thankfully Todd Ewen rescued that hollowed number a few seasons later.

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02-23-2006, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by habfan4
Sergio sullied a Habs jersey in the mid eighties. If I recall correctly he wore number 36, Thankfully Todd Ewen rescued that hollowed number a few seasons later.

haha wow man, damn good memory.

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02-23-2006, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Matrix
How could you ever forget about Robert Dirk and Johan Witehall is beyond me
My temples were throbbing too hard and I blacked out before I completed my list.

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Old
02-23-2006, 03:39 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Matrix
Don't agree. True that everything could not be his fault but he adapted well in 2002, didn't adapt at all for 2006. Great job in 02, poor job in 06....But if the players that were there would've played better and if the coaches would've prepared their player adequately for the qualifications rounds, we would not be there today.
Exactly. Gretzky put together a team that was at least the equivalent (if not the best team on paper) of the best teams out there.

The coaches didn't do a great job. The players were a bit so-so.

But we lost to a very strong russian team. Life goes on. We'll win in Vancouver with Luc Bourdon and Dion Phaneuf as our 3rd pairing D.

Hell maybe we can have the entire Stall family play for team Canada while we're at it.

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02-23-2006, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Leachmeister2000
It must be pretty hard on Gretzky these days.
Nah I doubt he's sitting in his room crying like a little girl over a loss in which he didn't even play in. His players let him down and well Canada's not going to win every single tournament. There are other countries too you know. Gretzky might be dissapointed but I doubt he really cares all that much. This isn't the stanley cup finals or somebody dying.

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02-23-2006, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aymand
Exactly. Gretzky put together a team that was at least the equivalent (if not the best team on paper) of the best teams out there.

The coaches didn't do a great job. The players were a bit so-so.

But we lost to a very strong russian team. Life goes on. We'll win in Vancouver with Luc Bourdon and Dion Phaneuf as our 3rd pairing D.

Hell maybe we can have the entire Stall family play for team Canada while we're at it.
and maybe Chipchrua. MAYBE! MAYBE!

maybe not.

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Old
02-23-2006, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by aymand
Hell maybe we can have the entire Stall family play for team Canada while we're at it.
I'm so tired of this spelling mistkae*.

*it was intentional

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Old
02-23-2006, 10:33 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by franchise player
I'm so tired of this spelling mistkae*.

*it was intentional
But Ribiero and Ribero both spell it "Stall" so it must be right.

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02-24-2006, 04:06 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by habfan4
I blame Rejean "Peanut" Houle, Patrick Traverse, Mario Tremblay, Patrice Brisebois, Serge Savard, Joe Juneau, Murray Baron, Andreas Dackell, Andre Racicot, Gordie Dywer, Randy McKay, Peter Popovic, Radek Bonk, Niklas Sundstrum, Mathieu Dandenault, Donald Audette, Mike Ribeiro, Mark Streit, Craig Rivet, Sebastien Bordeleau, Benoit Brunet, Andrei Kovalenko, Sheldon Souray, Ron Hainsey, Sergio Momesso, Christian Laflamme and finally Doug Wickenheiser.

Wait, what was the question?
Jose Theodore is now your best friend.

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02-24-2006, 09:03 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by franchise player
I'm so tired of this spelling mistkae*.

*it was intentional
oops... It's just that Pierre Houde pronounces is Ssshhtaallllll. So I got mixed up.

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02-24-2006, 09:35 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by aymand
He did a fine job in both instances.
Yep, he put an All-Star team together, left off some outstanding young talent, put his own captain on ahead of the 3rd leading scorer, and the team was a disaster.

If this was anyone other then Gretzky, he woulda been hung by now. However, cuz he's "The great one" everyones gotta defend him.

Face it, he blew it.

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02-24-2006, 10:19 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Nihilism
Yep, he put an All-Star team together, left off some outstanding young talent, put his own captain on ahead of the 3rd leading scorer, and the team was a disaster.

If this was anyone other then Gretzky, he woulda been hung by now. However, cuz he's "The great one" everyones gotta defend him.

Face it, he blew it.
I think anytime you don't get the result you want, you can find a lot to blame. Gretzky's faced his share of heat over this. Every paper's speculated that they treated the team like an old boys club. Most of us that the old boy's club would still be good enough.

many thought that the Russians, though talented, wouldn't play together, the Slovaks and Swedes wouldn't get the goaltending, the Finns weren't deep enough because of all their injuries, but it didn't happen.

I've said in other threads that Bertuzzi was the only guy that I really didn't want on th eteam when the selections were announced. I didn't care about McCabe because I never thought the 7th d man would be an issue. In retrospect, the committee should have recognized certain players were in decline and would be exposed on the big ice. I know it's hindsight and 2nd guessing, but I'm not a porofessional talent evaluator. Someone should have pointed out that Foote and Blake weren't what they once were and Pronger's play has been affected by calling the actual rules now. Again, it's easy for me to say it now, I didn't say it before the Olympics.

I still think the biggest issue was that the nucleus of forwards in their prime, the TB boys,Big Joe,Iginla,Gagne, stunk. They were unable to adapt. They played like the trap was a new tactic. Part of that has to be coaching. Quinn takes heat for not being much of a systems guy, but Hitchcock and Martin were there too.

The thread and the previous one about how much to lay at Gretzky's feet ? He has to take resonsibility. His name is at the top. As to being pissed off at him, ahh, the guy's had it bad enough lately, no need to pile on. If he does this job again and doesn't appear to have incorporated this as a learning experience, I'll lead a vigilante mob thru the streets of Brantford.

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Old
02-24-2006, 10:28 AM
  #22
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How did Gretzky blow it.. do you think that the fact that Doan was on the team affected our play that much?

Its not very complicated choosing players for team Canada. Its such a deep pool of talent. We would all agree on about 85% of the choices on the team. And the reality is, its that 85% that lost.

We all agree that Thornton, Lecavalier, Richards, Heatley, Iginla, etc... were supposed to be there. And yet they didn't do what they were expected to do. I blame 2 things. Players being too blazé and coaching being too stiff and unadaptable.

But blaming Gretzky is kinda weird.

Now that said. i'm not a Gretzky fan-boy. And, as I stated in an earlier post, Gretzky should not be glorified for what he did in 2002. Once again, I repeat, choosing players from the deepest pool of hockey talent in the world, is not that hard.

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02-24-2006, 10:29 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
I blame Rejean "Peanut" Houle, Patrick Traverse, Mario Tremblay, Patrice Brisebois, Serge Savard, Joe Juneau, Murray Baron, Andreas Dackell, Andre Racicot, Gordie Dywer, Randy McKay, Peter Popovic, Radek Bonk, Niklas Sundstrum, Mathieu Dandenault, Donald Audette, Mike Ribeiro, Mark Streit, Craig Rivet, Sebastien Bordeleau, Benoit Brunet, Andrei Kovalenko, Sheldon Souray, Ron Hainsey, Sergio Momesso, Christian Laflamme and finally Doug Wickenheiser.

Wait, what was the question?
I think you also forgot Craig Darby, Dainus Zubrus, Oleg Petrov, Karl Dykhuis, Barry Richter, and, uhhhh.... Scott Lachance

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02-24-2006, 11:02 AM
  #24
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Team Canada main problem is that this management team brought their own favourites to Torino.

Coach: Pat Quinn is TERRIBLE

Players: no Kariya, ***

McCabe, someone tell me why he was there again. Oh I forgot, frickin Quinn!
Foote and Pronger really struggled on the big ice.
Maybe Souray didn't do too bad for Canada at the World Cup last year compared to these defenceman.

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02-24-2006, 11:08 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aymand
Exactly. Gretzky put together a team that was at least the equivalent (if not the best team on paper) of the best teams out there.

The coaches didn't do a great job. The players were a bit so-so.

But we lost to a very strong russian team. Life goes on. We'll win in Vancouver with Luc Bourdon and Dion Phaneuf as our 3rd pairing D.

Hell maybe we can have the entire Stall family play for team Canada while we're at it.
I agree with this. On Paper we were probably the best team out there (especially if Nieds and Jovocop would've been healthy). However on ice we were just horrible. We didn't deserve a medal with our play and I'm sort of glad that we lost, seing as we'll have something better to shoot for in 2010. I hope to god that we don't see the same coaching staff...

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