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Is Gauthier available or is it just rumors?

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Old
10-24-2003, 10:23 AM
  #1
funky
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Is Gauthier available or is it just rumors?

Hearing a lot of those rumors. Just wondering if Calgary fans have heard the same or could confirm that? If so what is Calgary looking for. I would love Gauthier in L.A but what do we have that would help you(if Gauthier is on the block)

Thanks

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10-24-2003, 10:24 AM
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I'd say its mostly fan rumours, and many of these over-the-internet ideas got out into the media. What fans are saying sure don't mix with what the Flames are saying.

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10-24-2003, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
I'd say its mostly fan rumours, and many of these over-the-internet ideas got out into the media. What fans are saying sure don't mix with what the Flames are saying.
splats...I'm not disagreeing with you (I 'm not in the trade Gauthier camp perse), but do you have a link to the quote where Sutter mentions Gauthier as one of the three keys to the season this year, which you keep bringing up?

I can't remember him saying that. I do remember him saying something like (and I'm paraphrasing here) "You guys in the media are in love with the guys like Iginla,Regehr,Conroy and Gauthier. Well it's time for these players to step up and actually lead the team somewhere" ...or something like that. It was more a dig at the media then laying out who the Flames key players were.

I'm just curious

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10-24-2003, 10:41 AM
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Someone posted the link on CP, it's not like I have it saved. I'll sure you'll find it if you wanna go through like 500 threads.

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10-24-2003, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Someone posted the link on CP, it's not like I have it saved. I'll sure you'll find it if you wanna go through like 500 threads.
ok. eesh. I was just asking if you remembered where the quote was from

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10-24-2003, 01:20 PM
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Well, I'm going to say Gauthier isn't as available as others make him out to be, but I'm glad you're not a fan of the Avalanche - the Tanguay for Gauthier spew is much overworked!

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10-24-2003, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
Well, I'm going to say Gauthier isn't as available as others make him out to be, but I'm glad you're not a fan of the Avalanche - the Tanguay for Gauthier spew is much overworked!
i really hope you aren't suggesting that tanguay for gauthier would be a "bad thing" for the flames...

hell, 3 gauthiers for tanguay would still be a win.

don't get me wrong, as an oiler fan first (but flames fan second - how strange is that?) i have utmost respect for what gauthier brings to the table but he is abject garbage compared to tanguay.

man, i could just imagine tanguay and iginla together... yikes.

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10-24-2003, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LawnDemon
garbage compared to tanguay.

man, i could just imagine tanguay and iginla together... yikes.
Garbage compared to Tanguay? Where'd that come from? YOu do know that Gauthier is a defensive defenseman, and Tanguay is a scoring winger?

Maybe you need to follow hockey a little bit more. The only thing you can compare Gauthier and Tanguay is their salaries, since they are two different players on the opposite ends of the spectrum. From this, people make judgements about their trade value, which is a very big mess right now on the main board...

Don't ever compare them. That's absurd. Watch The Flames a little more, then make an unbiased call. But we'll see if you can try to atleast do that.

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10-24-2003, 07:45 PM
  #9
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I'd deal Gauthier for Tanguay in an instant.

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10-24-2003, 08:02 PM
  #10
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After watching the first few games, I'm starting to realize that all though Gauthier is a heart and soul player, he is not a top 4 defenceman. Sure, he throws those jaw-rattling hits every now and then, but if he plays too much, I think he becomes a bit of a liability. He still tends to run around too much.

Tonight, Lydman played on the second pairing with Warrener, and they were outstanding together. Gauthier had a brain cramp early on and his give away led to the Blues scoring a PP goal. I think Gauthier needs to be kept on the 3rd pairing, and to be honest, I would not be overly upset if he were to be dealt. I think Commodore, Ference and Montador could handle the #5 and #6 spots quite easily.....

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10-24-2003, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
I'd deal Gauthier for Tanguay in an instant.
I concur, I am in the camp that Tanguay is not a leach of Forsberg as he's made out to be, I mean I'm sure Forsberg helps his numbers, but who's numbers wouldn't be helped playin with Forsberg? Tanguay just does not strike me at all as a player that just leaches off others, he's not a sniper that needs a passing center to play with and he's not a passer that needs a sniper to play with, I realize his stats may suggest the later but after seeing this kid come up and then his first few season I really don't see it. I could be completely insane, but if this move were on the table I'd do it.

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10-25-2003, 07:47 AM
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All I simply meant was that both sides are spinning their wheels talking about a Gauthier for Tanguay trade. Avs fans think he's at least worth a Regehr (or something on that parallel), and anytime Flames fans bring up the possibility, it gets shot down as fast as it is suggested by third-party and pro-Avalanche homers.

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10-25-2003, 07:57 AM
  #13
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The bump Gauthier that put on Cajanek was a thing of beauty.

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10-26-2003, 04:12 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
What fans are saying sure don't mix with what the Flames are saying.
It's not as though Daryl Sutter's going to come right out and announce the names of specific players who could be shopped. If another team contacts him to express interest, he wouldn't be doing his (GM) job if he didn't listen to offers.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/mtl8.html

The names coming from Montreal are Jason Ward, Niklas Sundstrom and Chag Kilger. Stephane Yelle already contributes most of what Sundstrom brings to the table. Kilger wouldn't be a bad option, as his size could be effectively utilized on a top line to create space and tie up defensemen. A second line of Kilger-Lombardi-Kobasew could create some havoc.

Ward might be the wild card of that group, as he could eventually become a legitimate power forward. Since it takes longer to develop these types of players, it would really depend on the level of patience from the organization. Ward would be the least likely to have an immediate impact, but has the highest potential upside of the three.

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10-26-2003, 04:51 AM
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Gauthier is definitly available. We have the depth to move him and need more help up front.

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10-26-2003, 09:39 AM
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It's TFP. Their rumours are as reliable as ones made up here.

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10-26-2003, 10:34 AM
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Since we're on the topic of trading I would really like to see Daymond Langkow in a Flame jersey. The guy is way underrated, but I don't think we'd be able to get him out of Phoenix without paying ALOT cause they realize whats he's worth. I could handle having lines like this....

Reinprecht - Conroy - Iginla
Lombardi - Langkow - Kobasew
Saprykin/Oliwa/Lowry/McAmmond - Betts - Clark
Gelinas - Yelle - Donovan

Thats just me dreaming though, Langkow would cost Gauthier +++ unless he ticks off Phoenix management somehow.

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10-26-2003, 01:25 PM
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10-26-2003, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
Garbage compared to Tanguay? Where'd that come from? YOu do know that Gauthier is a defensive defenseman, and Tanguay is a scoring winger?

Maybe you need to follow hockey a little bit more. The only thing you can compare Gauthier and Tanguay is their salaries, since they are two different players on the opposite ends of the spectrum. From this, people make judgements about their trade value, which is a very big mess right now on the main board...

Don't ever compare them. That's absurd. Watch The Flames a little more, then make an unbiased call. But we'll see if you can try to atleast do that.
yeah, you're right... it's impossible to create relative value comparisons between forwards and defensemen. i guess that's why you never see a forward traded for a defenseman... oh wait... actually, that happens all the time... hmm... maybe you should "follow hockey a little bit more"... dumbass.

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10-27-2003, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by LawnDemon
yeah, you're right... it's impossible to create relative value comparisons between forwards and defensemen. i guess that's why you never see a forward traded for a defenseman... oh wait... actually, that happens all the time... hmm... maybe you should "follow hockey a little bit more"... dumbass.
The context of your original message implied Tanguay is superior to Gauthier. That is your own opinion, and you're entitled to it. But what are you basing it on? Comparing forwards to defensemen is like comparing apples and oranges; you can't really do that. When a forward is traded for a defenseman, I'll bet you my left nut it's because a GM sees it more beneficial to give up a defenseman to upgrade their offense, or vice versa. I doubt it's because he sees 'similar value' in an emperical sense; it's almost always based on needs. That's why you see alot of skewed trades these days in the NHL.

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10-27-2003, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
yeah, you're right... it's impossible to create relative value comparisons between forwards and defensemen. i guess that's why you never see a forward traded for a defenseman... oh wait... actually, that happens all the time... hmm... maybe you should "follow hockey a little bit more"... dumbass.
Lol, you said that Gauthier was garbage compared to Tanguay. That's what you said. Don't deny it.

What are you basing that on? Your opinion? Sure sounds like it.

I'll say it once, and I'll say it again. Stats-wise, position-wise...you can't compare a defenseman to a forward. Any hockey fan with basic knowledge of the game knows that. Seems like everyone else except you.

The only thing you can compare between a defenseman and a forward is the age, salary and esitmated 'trade value', which is a VERY subjective term.

That's the way it is. Lawn Demon, if you can't see that, which it looks like you can't then, hey - what can I say. You don't follow the game enough.

I never said defenseman don't get traded for forwards - you put those words in my mouth. We're talking about how you define 'value' in comparison of a forward to a defenseman.

Stay on topic, please. So far, your arguments haven't warranted anything of significant merit leading to material discussion.

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10-27-2003, 09:43 AM
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I'm Gauthier's biggest fan, and I'd be all over a Tanguay straight up for Gauthier deal.

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10-27-2003, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
Lol, you said that Gauthier was garbage compared to Tanguay. That's what you said. Don't deny it.

What are you basing that on? Your opinion? Sure sounds like it.
yes, i did say that. that is my informed opinion. it's also called "common sense". anyone who would suggest that gauthier is a more valuable commodity than tanguay is a moron. case closed. tanguay is a better offensive forward than gauthier is a defensive defenseman. i'd wager that across the NHL you would find more people that agree with my "opinion" than don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
I'll say it once, and I'll say it again. Stats-wise, position-wise...you can't compare a defenseman to a forward. Any hockey fan with basic knowledge of the game knows that. Seems like everyone else except you.
where do you get this drivel? relative value based on demonstrated ability within a role is a very simple concept. if a team needs defense and they have a plethora of scoring they will be able to obtain a relatively even valued defender in exchange for a forward. it is simple commodity exchange following the rules of supply and demand.

of course, the concepts of "ability within the role" and "supply and demand" may be too much for you to handle. i'll try to even it out for you... take one of your green crayons and draw a circle. then color 2/3rds (a little bit more than half) of that circle. that represents gauthiers demonstrated abilities as a defensive defenseman (better than average). now take one of your purple crayons and draw a square. color in 4/5ths of that square (a bit under full). that would be the equivalent of tanguays demonstrated abilities as a scoring forward (very good).

the goal of every shape is to be completely filled in. certainly it is obvious that one is a circle (defenseman) and the other a square (forward). the question in this instance is which shape is fuller (more capable in his role)?
- note: the answer is "the square" or tanguay

now, draw a bunch of similar circles (9 or 10) in different colors (i'll assume you haven't eaten all the other colors). then draw only a couple other squares in different colors.

that represents the number of circles (def. defensemen) and squares (quality scorers) available. how many circles do you think it will take to get one of the squares?
- note: the answer is either "more than one" or "you could not get a good square in exchange for above average circles"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
Stay on topic, please. So far, your arguments haven't warranted anything of significant merit leading to material discussion.
hopefully this little example can click in your "brain" and you can learn a little bit about the mechanics of supply and demand as it relates to NHL trades - specifically when comparing different roles. if you can't understand it, well, i won't be shocked. i fully expect another ignorant, smarmy post filled with insults about my "hockey knowledge". that's fine. in between pedantic insults maybe you can track down anyone with a bit of common sense and ask them to draw the shapes for you. or buy you a new pack of crayons.

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10-27-2003, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
where do you get this drivel? relative value based on demonstrated ability within a role is a very simple concept. if a team needs defense and they have a plethora of scoring they will be able to obtain a relatively even valued defender in exchange for a forward. it is simple commodity exchange following the rules of supply and demand.

of course, the concepts of "ability within the role" and "supply and demand" may be too much for you to handle. i'll try to even it out for you... take one of your green crayons and draw a circle. then color 2/3rds (a little bit more than half) of that circle. that represents gauthiers demonstrated abilities as a defensive defenseman (better than average). now take one of your purple crayons and draw a square. color in 4/5ths of that square (a bit under full). that would be the equivalent of tanguays demonstrated abilities as a scoring forward (very good).

the goal of every shape is to be completely filled in. certainly it is obvious that one is a circle (defenseman) and the other a square (forward). the question in this instance is which shape is fuller (more capable in his role)?
- note: the answer is "the square" or tanguay
Pure conjecture. You're idea of supply and demand are so full of opinion, it provides absolutely zero credibility to your argument.

You're taking you're own biased, personal opinions, and trying to explain a phenomenon the way you see it. This sort of worldy application has a much more emperical substance, and you have failed to nail to that down. A crayon example and filling in the circles, with no rational basis as to how much the circle should be filled is the blandest idea to come across here in a while.

Try this one again, but without spite and malicious intent.

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10-27-2003, 02:53 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
yes, i did say that. that is my informed opinion. it's also called "common sense". anyone who would suggest that gauthier is a more valuable commodity than tanguay is a moron. case closed. tanguay is a better offensive forward than gauthier is a defensive defenseman. i'd wager that across the NHL you would find more people that agree with my "opinion" than don't.
Now your opinion is 'common sense?' This jumbo that you spew is ultimately still your opinion. YOU think that Gauthier is worth less than Tanguay - that doesn't mean the guy next to you does as well. And if anyone disagrees with you, they're a moron? Sound reasoning, buddy. Sound reasoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
where do you get this drivel? relative value based on demonstrated ability within a role is a very simple concept. if a team needs defense and they have a plethora of scoring they will be able to obtain a relatively even valued defender in exchange for a forward. it is simple commodity exchange following the rules of supply and demand.
Sorry, I didn't know that the inability to compare stats between a forward and a defenseman was 'drivel'. Again, your opinion. Perhaps you didn't read my post thoroughly, but that wouldn't surprise me. I said you can compare a forward and a defenseman in "age, salary and esitmated 'trade value', which is a VERY subjective term." You're taking what I'm saying out of context to support your misinformed argument. Read a little more in depth; you'll see that you can pick out ALOT more information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
of course, the concepts of "ability within the role" and "supply and demand" may be too much for you to handle. i'll try to even it out for you... take one of your green crayons and draw a circle. then color 2/3rds (a little bit more than half) of that circle. that represents gauthiers demonstrated abilities as a defensive defenseman (better than average). now take one of your purple crayons and draw a square. color in 4/5ths of that square (a bit under full). that would be the equivalent of tanguays demonstrated abilities as a scoring forward (very good).

the goal of every shape is to be completely filled in. certainly it is obvious that one is a circle (defenseman) and the other a square (forward). the question in this instance is which shape is fuller (more capable in his role)?
- note: the answer is "the square" or tanguay

now, draw a bunch of similar circles (9 or 10) in different colors (i'll assume you haven't eaten all the other colors). then draw only a couple other squares in different colors.

that represents the number of circles (def. defensemen) and squares (quality scorers) available. how many circles do you think it will take to get one of the squares?
- note: the answer is either "more than one" or "you could not get a good square in exchange for above average circles"
Your analogies of crayons, paper and circles is humourous, if not useless. Your argument is flawed left right and center, mainly because it's all opinion. You honestly expect me to draw a circle representing Gauthier, a square represtenting Tanguay, and color Tanguay's square in more, because you say so? and this is supossed to tell me the Tanguay is better than Gauthier? This is the most illogical analogy I have ever witnessed. Your logic is flawed, your examples are piss poor, and your argument is dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
hopefully this little example can click in your "brain" and you can learn a little bit about the mechanics of supply and demand as it relates to NHL trades - specifically when comparing different roles. if you can't understand it, well, i won't be shocked. i fully expect another ignorant, smarmy post filled with insults about my "hockey knowledge". that's fine. in between pedantic insults maybe you can track down anyone with a bit of common sense and ask them to draw the shapes for you. or buy you a new pack of crayons.
The only thing that 'clicked' was the gun that fired a bullet through the head of your argument. I never knew that crayons and circles are a complete representation of NHL player values - and opinionated ones, to boot.

If my posts have been insultive, which they haven't, then I'm sorry. But other than that, if you can't take the criticism, then you better be prepared to buck up and provide some solid discussion to back up your claims. Simple as pie.

Oh yeah, and anyone with 'common sense' will see that your analogy is flawed beond belief. There's only one person who needs to consider getting 'common sense', and we can put 2 and 2 together to find that out.

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