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What would it take to get Bondra?

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Old
10-24-2003, 05:28 AM
  #1
Freebooter
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What would it take to get Bondra?

For those who follow the Caps and have some knowledge about the economics of trading in the NHL, what type of package would Washington take in exchange for Bondra? Let's try to keep the responses realistic and credible.

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10-24-2003, 05:31 AM
  #2
btmarshall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebooter
Let's try to keep the responses realistic and credible.
Provided that this logic prevails both ways, absolutely. It won't be for a song, and it won't be for a young all-star either.

For an answer, only picks and/or promising prospects are likely to at all interest the Caps. There is a certain incentive on the part of the team to let him retire in DC, unless the return is notable.

 
Old
10-24-2003, 06:56 AM
  #3
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Have any good coaches around, the Caps need one!

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10-24-2003, 08:23 AM
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Taffe, Berik, Suchy??

Just a thought but I am not good at these things..

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10-24-2003, 08:33 AM
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he'd be a perfect fit for yashin

but if he gets traded, i expect it to be to a cup contender that has showed interest in him in the past, detroit and dallas come to mind.

maybe like dandenault and hudler from detroit and erskien and malhotra from dallas.

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10-24-2003, 08:42 AM
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How about a first, second, third and a top goaltender prospect - oh wait the Flyers already did that for Oates. Sorry nothing left in the cupboard.

By the way, do not see the wings giving up Hudler any time soon as mentioned.

 
Old
10-24-2003, 08:49 AM
  #7
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i could see detroit being interrested around trade deadline. i think it would take a high draftpick and a younger player with some promise. something like a 2nd in 04 and jason williams.

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10-24-2003, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasywonder
he'd be a perfect fit for yashin

but if he gets traded, i expect it to be to a cup contender that has showed interest in him in the past, detroit and dallas come to mind.

maybe like dandenault and hudler from detroit and erskien and malhotra from dallas.
I think he'd be a poor fit for Yashin. Yashin is not much of a playmaker, he is more of a goalscorer. He would probably do best with some big physical wingers that can get him the puck. Yashin also seems to like to hold onto the puck a lot of the time, so he probaby with a Bondra-type foward (who also likes to control the puck).

On the Island, a shooter like Bondra might fit better with Peca than Yashin. But, it is a moot point, since he'll never be an Islander....

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10-24-2003, 09:57 AM
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Bondra will be 36 soon and makes $4.5 million. He can still skate and shoot well, but has declined from 81 to 70 to 56 points in the last three seasons.

The first poster to reply indicated that the Caps have an incentive to see Bondra retire in Washington. I'm not sure why that is, but I would think they also have a desire to get younger and to move salary. Thus Bondra is susceptible to being traded, IMO.

From the Habs, how about Tomas Plekanec, Francois Beauchemin and a 3rd?

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10-24-2003, 10:00 AM
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The Caps would probably take a 1st straight up, but it will depend on his totals by March. Right now, Bondra is rolling, so 40 goals or more this year could be very achievable for him. If he's on pace for those totals by the deadline, I could see the price being that high if it became known he was available. If he stumbles, I'm not sure what his value would ultimately be, or whether he would indeed be shopped. I don't see him being traded unless he plays himself to a level where the rental cost is high.

 
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10-24-2003, 10:02 AM
  #11
Reign Nateo
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Personally I wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick or a solid prospect for Bondra at this point. He is a great player, but his skills are diminishing.

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10-24-2003, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btmarshall
The Caps would probably take a 1st straight up, but it will depend on his totals by March. Right now, Bondra is rolling, so 40 goals or more this year could be very achievable for him. If he's on pace for those totals by the deadline, I could see the price being that high if it became known he was available. If he stumbles, I'm not sure what his value would ultimately be, or whether he would indeed be shopped. I don't see him being traded unless he plays himself to a level where the rental cost is high.

I'd don't think a first is out of line. But, it will be a first from a contender (i.e., a pick late in the first round). the Dead Wings once traded two firsts for Chelios at the deadline, and the Avs traded first rounders for Borque and Fleury. Bondra, like Borque and Chelios, was a superstar once and still has a lot to contribute.

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10-24-2003, 10:09 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btmarshall
The Caps would probably take a 1st straight up, but it will depend on his totals by March. Right now, Bondra is rolling, so 40 goals or more this year could be very achievable for him. If he's on pace for those totals by the deadline, I could see the price being that high if it became known he was available. If he stumbles, I'm not sure what his value would ultimately be, or whether he would indeed be shopped. I don't see him being traded unless he plays himself to a level where the rental cost is high.

A 1st straight up is unlikely, especially after the example of the Red Wings' experience in the Matt Schneider deal last spring. Something like the Smolinski for Gleason (somewhat disappointing past 1st rounder) is more realistic, subject to the caveat that Bondra would require a team to take on extra salary, especially if the deal was done early in the season.

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10-24-2003, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebooter
Bondra will be 36 soon and makes $4.5 million. He can still skate and shoot well, but has declined from 81 to 70 to 56 points in the last three seasons.

The first poster to reply indicated that the Caps have an incentive to see Bondra retire in Washington. I'm not sure why that is, but I would think they also have a desire to get younger and to move salary. Thus Bondra is susceptible to being traded, IMO.

From the Habs, how about Tomas Plekanec, Francois Beauchemin and a 3rd?
Here is why Bondra will probably not go anywhere. In the currently marketplace year to year contract flexibility is important. The Caps have a club option on Bondra for next year. So he is year to year.
As much as the Capitals are interested in keeping him for franchise/ticket sales value, Bondra is interested in staying as well.
If the Caps need him to restructure his contract, he will likely be willing to take less to stay in one place. He is a year to year player at this point in his career that has no interest in retiring as yet.
As to his production dropping, its easy to see in the numbers, but a result of the quality of his play. He is a pure shooter. His assists are a result of someone deflecting his shots or scoring on his rebounds. His goals dropped last year purely because he was deemphisised on the power play from the #1 shooting option to off the first unit in favor of Jagr. His even strenth goals were at its usual rate. This year he has been returned to a primary pp role and had 3 ppg's already.
so....
1. he is worth more the the Capitals than he can fetch in any trade.
2. his contract status and service with the team is consistant with keeping rather than trading.

so...you want Jagr or Lang?
The reason you want Bondra instead is the reason the Caps will want to keep him.

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10-24-2003, 10:47 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Personally I wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick or a solid prospect for Bondra at this point. He is a great player, but his skills are diminishing.
how exactly do you figure that? as long as he is fast his skills won't erode. He is still the fastest player on the team. He has the best shot on the team. His skills have always been that he is fast and that he can shoot. that hasn't changed.

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10-24-2003, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freebooter
A 1st straight up is unlikely, especially after the example of the Red Wings' experience in the Matt Schneider deal last spring. Something like the Smolinski for Gleason (somewhat disappointing past 1st rounder) is more realistic, subject to the caveat that Bondra would require a team to take on extra salary, especially if the deal was done early in the season.
You are giving all the reasons why the Capitals would not do this. Why would the Capitals give away their top gun or their #2 gun for next to nothing in return. If Bondra were on his last legs, maybe. But at this point Bondra has said he will play as long as he feels good. He is a year to year player that is liable to be able to play as long as Mike Gartner did. He is a fitness fiend. He takes great care of himself. As long as his legs are healthy he will be able to continue. The idea of trading your all time leading scorer for a 2nd round pick and watch him score another 130 goals is sickening. Particularly when you know the Caps are going to move Jagr if they can.

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10-24-2003, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
how exactly do you figure that? as long as he is fast his skills won't erode. He is still the fastest player on the team. He has the best shot on the team. His skills have always been that he is fast and that he can shoot. that hasn't changed.

The fact that his point production has been going down in a pretty linear fashion does suggest that his skills are in decline. Not a steep decline, but a decline nonetheless.

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10-24-2003, 11:05 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
Here is why Bondra will probably not go anywhere. In the currently marketplace year to year contract flexibility is important. The Caps have a club option on Bondra for next year. So he is year to year.
As much as the Capitals are interested in keeping him for franchise/ticket sales value, Bondra is interested in staying as well.
If the Caps need him to restructure his contract, he will likely be willing to take less to stay in one place. He is a year to year player at this point in his career that has no interest in retiring as yet.
As to his production dropping, its easy to see in the numbers, but a result of the quality of his play. He is a pure shooter. His assists are a result of someone deflecting his shots or scoring on his rebounds. His goals dropped last year purely because he was deemphisised on the power play from the #1 shooting option to off the first unit in favor of Jagr. His even strenth goals were at its usual rate. This year he has been returned to a primary pp role and had 3 ppg's already.
so....
1. he is worth more the the Capitals than he can fetch in any trade.
2. his contract status and service with the team is consistant with keeping rather than trading.




so...you want Jagr or Lang?
The reason you want Bondra instead is the reason the Caps will want to keep him.

Points taken, but if that type of rationale were to prevail, then there were would be virtually no trades in the NHL. One could apply those thoughts to a number of trades in the last two years and question why they occurred. The fact is the trades happened.

Teams trade with other teams because they anticipate being able to improve their club in the short or long term, either from a personnel or financial standpoint, or (ideally) both. I question how much Bondra is worth to the Caps, in view of the fact that I have seen them play 5 times this year and they look like a pretty dreadful team. They do not, even optimistically, have any NHL calibre defencemen outside of Gonchar, Witt, and Eminger. While Jagr and Lang look to be liabilities, Bondra is also the type of player teams that are losing money and rebuilding typically trade. The fact that he is year to year makes him a more, not less attractive commodity to other teams, and is probably neutral as far as the Caps are concerned, i.e. why commit $4.5 million to a 36 year old asset with diminishing value when your team is on the decline?

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10-24-2003, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
The fact that his point production has been going down in a pretty linear fashion does suggest that his skills are in decline. Not a steep decline, but a decline nonetheless.
His production has declined since they got Jagr. However, could just be a coincidence, or it's time to move both.

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10-24-2003, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
You are giving all the reasons why the Capitals would not do this. Why would the Capitals give away their top gun or their #2 gun for next to nothing in return. If Bondra were on his last legs, maybe. But at this point Bondra has said he will play as long as he feels good. He is a year to year player that is liable to be able to play as long as Mike Gartner did. He is a fitness fiend. He takes great care of himself. As long as his legs are healthy he will be able to continue. The idea of trading your all time leading scorer for a 2nd round pick and watch him score another 130 goals is sickening. Particularly when you know the Caps are going to move Jagr if they can.
Mike Gartner fetched next to nothing late in his career when traded. Market value for 36 year old RW's with declining point totals is just not as high as you think it is. Look, I agree Bondra is still a real good player, but not what he was, and neither are the Caps, realistically. A players' age, position and a teams ability to control his rights are huge factors in assessing trade value. That's why a player like Daymond Langkow could, in a package, fetch a good prospect and 1st a couple of years ago, and why, for example, Mark Recchi did not.

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10-24-2003, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
The fact that his point production has been going down in a pretty linear fashion does suggest that his skills are in decline. Not a steep decline, but a decline nonetheless.
As someone said....with Bondra you look more at his goals than overall points...since he is much more a goal scorer than a setup guy (although he can/does pass)

Last year he was taken off the #1 PP unit because Jagr wanted a more freestyle PP....as opposed to the shooting style that had Bondra lead the NHL in PP goals the 2 previous seasons (pretty sure that stat is correct)

00/01 he has 22 PP goals
01/02 he had 17 PP goals

last season he had 9 with limited PP time with 2nd line players.....

its fair to assume that had he been on the PP more his goal totals would have been around the 40 mark again....supporting that is the fact he has 3 PPG's this season.....and has played on the 3rd line with muckers most of the time during even strength (gotta love the wisdom on that move by Cassidy....please fire this guy)

so in this case just glancing at his stats is a bit misleading

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10-24-2003, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc lafleur
His production has declined since they got Jagr. However, could just be a coincidence, or it's time to move both.
I think it probably has a lot more to do with age, but you are right that Jagr could be a factor.

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10-24-2003, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mothra
As someone said....with Bondra you look more at his goals than overall points...since he is much more a goal scorer than a setup guy (although he can/does pass)

Last year he was taken off the #1 PP unit because Jagr wanted a more freestyle PP....as opposed to the shooting style that had Bondra lead the NHL in PP goals the 2 previous seasons (pretty sure that stat is correct)

00/01 he has 22 PP goals
01/02 he had 17 PP goals

last season he had 9 with limited PP time with 2nd line players.....

its fair to assume that had he been on the PP more his goal totals would have been around the 40 mark again....supporting that is the fact he has 3 PPG's this season.....and has played on the 3rd line with muckers most of the time during even strength (gotta love the wisdom on that move by Cassidy....please fire this guy)

so in this case just glancing at his stats is a bit misleading
Actually, I think the stats you're citing are misleading. Bondra had two big years on the PP, but historically, most of his goals have been at even strenght. He had something like 11 goals on the PP the year he scored 50 (2 more goals last year).

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10-24-2003, 12:01 PM
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Washington wants Bondra to stay, Bondra wants to stay. Its gonan take quite a bit more then he is worth to move him.

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10-24-2003, 12:09 PM
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A first may be a longshot, but if he is on 40+ goal pace, his age won't seem to be much of a deterrent factor, particularly for last-gasp grabs for the Cup before the lockout, from contenders. I could see teams ranging from Ottawa to Philly to St. Louis to Vancouver making a pitch. Also agree that a 1st would be in the 25th to 30th overall range; no higher.

The incentive to keep him would be purely sentimental, in the sense that he is a career Cap. Would they be mercenary enough to trade him? Yes, I think so, but not for a 3rd and role players or bubble prospects. I think that a team would only pry him loose for a quality offer, otherwise the Caps will just keep him and let him retire a Cap. A trade would throw a good chunk of the current fanbase into histrionics. He is probably the favorite player of 75% of Caps fans, conservatively. They'll trade him regardless, I think, but not unless they can easily defend the return.

At any rate, this is all dependent on his production this year, so it's moot until another four to five months have passed.

 
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