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02-26-2006, 08:59 PM
  #1
King Fish
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Money To Spend?

I think we were very close to the cap going into the Olympics. With Primeau's announcment soon to come, what kind of cap relief can we expect?

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02-26-2006, 09:01 PM
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The figure I've seen in the papers, is $2.2 million.

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02-26-2006, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
The figure I've seen in the papers, is $2.2 million.
So we can basically acquire any player in the NHL?

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02-26-2006, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GagneOwnsYou
So we can basically acquire any player in the NHL?
I believe so. We have been rumored to get Tkakuck and he is getting paid close to the cap.

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02-26-2006, 10:35 PM
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I would rather acquire a solid defenseman and a decent half ppg winger than spend all our room and assets on a single star player.

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02-26-2006, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
I would rather acquire a solid defenseman and a decent half ppg winger than spend all our room and assets on a single star player.
we shall see... i would love to see Jokinen come in here and move Nedved to the wing. mostly because he would help on the offensive side of the ice, plus it would keep him away from ottawa... the opportunity to re-sign him is appealing as well.

Jokinen's salary is only 2.5M, so it is possible that we could fit him AND a dman depending on the salary that goes with them and what salaries are going in the other direction of any trade.

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02-26-2006, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
I would rather acquire a solid defenseman and a decent half ppg winger than spend all our room and assets on a single star player.
I agree 100%. I think we need a winger who is a great 3rd liner/good 2nd liner and a #5-4 defenseman. I think a 2nd line of Nedved Handzus and Rado/Kapanen is enough. Especially if balanced scoring comes from the younger guys on the 3rd/4th lines. I think we should get someone good to play RW with Umberger and Carter so they can solidify themselves as the 3rd line and have Richards play the Primeau role the rest of the season and the playoffs by shutting down the other teams top players, gritty play and popping in a couple goals. I dont know why everyone is so crazy about Tkachuk but if we can get him cheap and add a decent 5th dman, meaning no one on the current roster then I go for it.

Gagne Forsberg Knuble
Tkachuk Nedved Rado/Kap
Handzus Richards Rado/Kap
Umberger Carter Savage
Stevenson Brashear

A #1 PP with Gagne, Tkachuk, Forsberg, Pitkanen and Desjardins would be sweet!!

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02-27-2006, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr
A #1 PP with Gagne, Tkachuk, Forsberg, Pitkanen and Desjardins would be sweet!!

A #1 PP with Jokinen on it instead of Tkachuk is even better because Tkachuk sucks and isn't going to be worth the $3.8M option he'd probably pick up, plus he has repeatedly said he will not waive his no trade clause, so it's even better because I won't have to worry about getting him, and people here won't have to worry about wanting him because he sucks anyways

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02-27-2006, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mikedifr
I agree 100%.... I dont know why everyone is so crazy about Tkachuk but if we can get him cheap and add a decent 5th dman, meaning no one on the current roster then I go for it.
If we add Tkachuk, we dont have cap room for a defenseman. If we got KT, he would be the only possible addition since our cap room would be gone. We dont really need another 3rd pairing D man. We need a really good defenseman who can save our butts on the top pairing if Pitkanen, Johnson, and Desjardins get injured.

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02-27-2006, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
If we add Tkachuk, we dont have cap room for a defenseman. If we got KT, he would be the only possible addition since our cap room would be gone. We dont really need another 3rd pairing D man. We need a really good defenseman who can save our butts on the top pairing if Pitkanen, Johnson, and Desjardins get injured.
I partly agree. The thing is Vancouver lost two of thier d-men in the olympics if theyare long term or even kind of short then they alone will drive up the worth of d-men.

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02-27-2006, 07:49 AM
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It will be interesting to see what Vancouver actually gives up. If the price is a first round pick, I can reluctantly live with it. But if its a roster player or a top prospect, who would they give up? They arent exactly stocked with high quality trade assets they can easily part with.

Though they might not do this, I think Vancouver needs to realize that this is just not their year and look to the future. Naslund has had an off year, their defense corps is probably the worst in the NHL with all the injuries (adding Witt or Weinrich isnt enough to overcome this defficiency), and their goaltending is not great either.

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02-27-2006, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
It will be interesting to see what Vancouver actually gives up. If the price is a first round pick, I can reluctantly live with it. But if its a roster player or a top prospect, who would they give up? They arent exactly stocked with high quality trade assets they can easily part with.

Though they might not do this, I think Vancouver needs to realize that this is just not their year and look to the future. Naslund has had an off year, their defense corps is probably the worst in the NHL with all the injuries (adding Witt or Weinrich isnt enough to overcome this defficiency), and their goaltending is not great either.
Yea I agree. They should try and make the playoffs but it s not like they are a trade away from being even close to being the favorites.

I noticed many comments about Tkakuck. I mentioned him purley as a way to look at the cap situation. I dont think he is a good fit here, we all ready have our big man in Kunuble. What we need is another finisher to max out on Nedveds skill. I agreee that we should only trade picks unless we can get Jokinen and have 50/50 shot atleast in resigning him. Foppa is only with us for one more year so a great center may be a good thing to invest in now. I guess we could always sign free agents though or hope that Cartr will be a dominant #1 center eventually.

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02-27-2006, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester
we shall see... i would love to see Jokinen come in here and move Nedved to the wing. mostly because he would help on the offensive side of the ice, plus it would keep him away from ottawa... the opportunity to re-sign him is appealing as well.

Jokinen's salary is only 2.5M, so it is possible that we could fit him AND a dman depending on the salary that goes with them and what salaries are going in the other direction of any trade.
How does that add up? If we get 2.2 relief for Primeau how can we afford Jokinen at 2.5. I thought we were at the cap, and with Primeau being finished for the year we free up 2.2mill. Please explain.

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02-27-2006, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by King Fish
How does that add up? If we get 2.2 relief for Primeau how can we afford Jokinen at 2.5. I thought we were at the cap, and with Primeau being finished for the year we free up 2.2mill. Please explain.
More than half of Jokinen's $2.5 has already been paid by the Panthers.

Assuming the deal is made with 30 games left, we'd get charged about $915,000 for Joikenen.

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02-27-2006, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
More than half of Jokinen's $2.5 has already been paid by the Panthers.

Assuming the deal is made with 30 games left, we'd get charged about $915,000 for Joikenen.
yep... salaries are pro-rated.

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02-27-2006, 09:38 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
More than half of Jokinen's $2.5 has already been paid by the Panthers.

Assuming the deal is made with 30 games left, we'd get charged about $915,000 for Joikenen.
So the same goes for Primeau, we have 2.2mill to take off the cap because that is the prorated amount of his 3.4mill contract? Plus any amount we were under the cap to begin with. Is this correct?

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02-27-2006, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
If we add Tkachuk, we dont have cap room for a defenseman. If we got KT, he would be the only possible addition since our cap room would be gone. We dont really need another 3rd pairing D man. We need a really good defenseman who can save our butts on the top pairing if Pitkanen, Johnson, and Desjardins get injured.
I agree. I dont want to add Tkachuk, Jokinen or anything that would cost us something signficant off the roster. We need to let Umberger, Carter and Richards develop and add a dman (or two) and a 3rd line winger for this year.

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02-27-2006, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by King Fish
So the same goes for Primeau, we have 2.2mill to take off the cap because that is the prorated amount of his 3.4mill contract? Plus any amount we were under the cap to begin with. Is this correct?
we only paid for Primeau up until he went on IR... since then, his money hasn't counted. if he were to come back, ALL that money would come back to our payroll.

so, that's basically it.

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02-27-2006, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr
I agree. I dont want to add Tkachuk, Jokinen or anything that would cost us something signficant off the roster. We need to let Umberger, Carter and Richards develop and add a dman (or two) and a 3rd line winger for this year.
we're very close... you can't base all decisions on potential. in Downie, Potulny, and Ruzicka we have other guys that could develop into just as good players.

it's fine to move young players as long as you don't gut the system... which moving Umberger wouldn't do. however, you have to be smart about it.

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02-27-2006, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
yep... salaries are pro-rated.


Can someone explain this? Isn't everyone paid the same increments during the season

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02-28-2006, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester
we're very close... you can't base all decisions on potential. in Downie, Potulny, and Ruzicka we have other guys that could develop into just as good players.

it's fine to move young players as long as you don't gut the system... which moving Umberger wouldn't do. however, you have to be smart about it.

We will just have to agree to disagree on Umberger. You cant compare Downie, Potulny and Ruzicka to Carter, Richards or Umberger because they have excelled at the AHL level (Calder Cup) and are now playing well at the NHL level. In my mind, prospects mean nothing until they get to and succeed in the AHL or NHL. And as I have said 1000 times, look at TB. They let their young guys develop as a team over a couple years and look what happened. We have been there done that with the signing of high profile free agents and trading prospects for proven players. Where has it gotten us??? Justin Williams would look really nice next to Carter and Umberger for the next 5 years, dont you think? (I understand why they traded him though) I think this team is a contender this year with only adding a decent winger and dman (especially if KJ is out) without giving up any of these players. I dont feel Jokinen fits the team and I dont think it is worth giving up Umberger for him when he and Carter have already proven that they can play together and continue to develop.

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02-28-2006, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
Can someone explain this? Isn't everyone paid the same increments during the season
player is paid $X for the season... the season is comprised of Y days. therefore you can break that contract into X/Y "pieces". the team is on the ropes for the players contract for each "piece" he happens to be with their club... which is why the Flyers were circumventing the system by shuffling their players -- Umberger, etc. -- back and forth between the Phantoms and Flyers... they weren't on the rope for the "piece" while he was with the Phantoms, then they would bring him up for the game.

SO, when we are trading for players we are ONLY booked for however many "pieces" of the contract are remaining from the date which we trade for the player. so, we are basically going to be paying about 1/4, or whatever it comes out to, of any players contract that comes in at this point.

the key to all of this, and why the Primeau announcement was very important information, is that we're only responsible for him at the very beginning of the season... after he went on the IR his contract went bye-bye from our books. however, if he had come back ALL that money would have returned to our cap figure.

we have a little bit of room to play with here... it'll be interesting what Clarkie does. i'm betting a couple of small acquisitions as opposed to anything huge, but we'll see... obviously he's shocked us before.

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02-28-2006, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr
We will just have to agree to disagree on Umberger. You cant compare Downie, Potulny and Ruzicka to Carter, Richards or Umberger because they have excelled at the AHL level (Calder Cup) and are now playing well at the NHL level. In my mind, prospects mean nothing until they get to and succeed in the AHL or NHL. And as I have said 1000 times, look at TB. They let their young guys develop as a team over a couple years and look what happened. We have been there done that with the signing of high profile free agents and trading prospects for proven players. Where has it gotten us??? Justin Williams would look really nice next to Carter and Umberger for the next 5 years, dont you think? (I understand why they traded him though) I think this team is a contender this year with only adding a decent winger and dman (especially if KJ is out) without giving up any of these players. I dont feel Jokinen fits the team and I dont think it is worth giving up Umberger for him when he and Carter have already proven that they can play together and continue to develop.
not comparing... the reason they come up is because they represent young players who will be coming into the organizational system. my point regarding them is that moving Umberger doesn't leave us with potential players in the future... outside of the glut we may recieve in the upcoming draft depending on what Clarke does.

i think Justin Williams benefited from the change of scenery, not necessarily convinced he would have found his game here. it happens... few were complaining about that deal at the time... and, personally, i'd rather have Markov on this team right now than Williams, but that's just my opinion.

i'm not convinced that moving Umberger is the way to go in any of these hypothetical deals, i'm just not against exploring the option. i do agree that this team, when healthy, can compete with anyone... however, we can clearly use some more depth amongst our forwards and i don't believe Umberger being moved has any massive adverse affect on future organizational depth.

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03-01-2006, 01:56 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
player is paid $X for the season... the season is comprised of Y days. therefore you can break that contract into X/Y "pieces". the team is on the ropes for the players contract for each "piece" he happens to be with their club... which is why the Flyers were circumventing the system by shuffling their players -- Umberger, etc. -- back and forth between the Phantoms and Flyers... they weren't on the rope for the "piece" while he was with the Phantoms, then they would bring him up for the game.

SO, when we are trading for players we are ONLY booked for however many "pieces" of the contract are remaining from the date which we trade for the player. so, we are basically going to be paying about 1/4, or whatever it comes out to, of any players contract that comes in at this point.

the key to all of this, and why the Primeau announcement was very important information, is that we're only responsible for him at the very beginning of the season... after he went on the IR his contract went bye-bye from our books. however, if he had come back ALL that money would have returned to our cap figure.

we have a little bit of room to play with here... it'll be interesting what Clarkie does. i'm betting a couple of small acquisitions as opposed to anything huge, but we'll see... obviously he's shocked us before.


So say if we were to trade for Jokinen, and not take anyone off our roster and only had to pay him for the rest of the season, and his salary was 915K, is that what would go against our cap, plus the full salary of everyone already on the roster?

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03-01-2006, 03:03 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
So say if we were to trade for Jokinen, and not take anyone off our roster and only had to pay him for the rest of the season, and his salary was 915K, is that what would go against our cap, plus the full salary of everyone already on the roster?
basically yes... we could fit Jokinen under the cap w/out a problem at this point.

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