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EDM/BUFF proposal!

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Old
03-02-2006, 03:51 PM
  #26
PuckNut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Sounds to me like you're doing your best to talk yourself into believing that Edmonton is the only suitor for Buffalo. Sadly, it ain't so. Vancouver is looking for another goaltender as is Ottawa, no matter how much you protest that they are not. Teams that want to go deep are making sure they have guys that can fill in. Biron is a great backup in case their number one goes down.
I'll agree that both those teams are looking for tenders. However, I doubt that Buffalo would make a trade with Ottawa without a massive overpayment. I know everybody else will need to overpay to Buffalo too, but you don't make a trade to make a team like Ottawa stronger when they are in your division unless you are getting a huge payout.

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Old
03-02-2006, 04:11 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Sounds to me like you're doing your best to talk yourself into believing that Edmonton is the only suitor for Buffalo. Sadly, it ain't so. Vancouver is looking for another goaltender as is Ottawa, no matter how much you protest that they are not. Teams that want to go deep are making sure they have guys that can fill in. Biron is a great backup in case their number one goes down.
Buffalo has limited options with Biron, Biron's cap hit doesn't help Vancouver or Ottawa, Vancouver has more pressing needs to worry about I stated the two of them, they may be looking for a goalie to take some pressure off Auld but, to think Biron is the answer your dead wrong, and you will hear the same from Canuck fans, and again Ottawa and Buffalo trading at the deadline is laughable will never happen and Ottawa looking for a vet goalie with playoff experience to back up Hasek for insurance.

Buffalo could have more options than I think but Edmonton has more options out there than Buffalo too.

Regier strikes me as the guy who waits for the best offer (which I like) and someone who won't trade within his conference unless they over-pay him, unless you think Ottawa going to over-pay to get Biron as a backup, good luck with that.

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Old
03-02-2006, 07:24 PM
  #28
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Fot the first deal, I'd say yes for sure as an oil fan if afinogenov isnt a ufa after this year

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Old
03-02-2006, 08:15 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemskyFreak83
Buffalo has limited options with Biron, Biron's cap hit doesn't help Vancouver or Ottawa, Vancouver has more pressing needs to worry about I stated the two of them, they may be looking for a goalie to take some pressure off Auld but, to think Biron is the answer your dead wrong, and you will hear the same from Canuck fans, and again Ottawa and Buffalo trading at the deadline is laughable will never happen and Ottawa looking for a vet goalie with playoff experience to back up Hasek for insurance..
Really? And what is Biron's cap hit? I'll answer that for you. ~$470K. That's not much of a hit at all. Hell, Vancouver has saved that and then some on Cloutier's injury. Vancouver is covered. Ottawa? They have more than enough space (at minimum $2.5 million). So that point is moot.

Quote:

Buffalo could have more options than I think but Edmonton has more options out there than Buffalo too..
Again, really? What teams are looking to dump goaltenders at this point?

Quote:
Regier strikes me as the guy who waits for the best offer (which I like) and someone who won't trade within his conference unless they over-pay him, unless you think Ottawa going to over-pay to get Biron as a backup, good luck with that.
Gotcha. Buffalo won't deal with Ottawa without making them over-pay, but they will give away a goaltender to Edmonton, who is desperate for a goaltender? What ever you say. If Ottawa makes the best offer for Biron, and that deal helps out the Sabres, they will deal with Ottawa. Buffalo will not think twice about dealing with Ottawa as it is very unlikely that Biron will see any playing time should face each other in the second or third round. Ottawa, on the other hand, may be apprehensive to deal with Buffalo as they don't want to improve the Sabres too much. But if they decide that having that solid backup goaltender is important enough, they will deal. The window of opportunity is open for so long, so you take advantage of it and make the moves you have to.

Again, I think you're spending a lot of time trying to convince yourself that Buffalo's only option is to give Biron to Edmonton for nothing. The fact is that they have a player that multiple teams want/need. That puts them in the catbird seat. They have the best goaltender available by a big margin, and they get to pick and choose who they get to deal with.

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Old
03-02-2006, 08:27 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemskyFreak83
I think your wrong about Vancouver and Ottawa.
I'm thinking only Edmonton is really looking for an no. 1 in net, Vancouver is doing great with Auld and they could use they limited cap space to get a defensemen or someone who can win faceoffs for them. Ottawa wants a vet to backup Hasek, and the chances Buffalo deals with them is laughable. If Buffalo wants to wait let them be stuck with all 3 goalies for the rest of the year.
Vancouver probably isn't looking for a #1. Based on what Buffalo (should) be able to get for Biron from teams looking for a player to fight for the starting job, Vancouver is probably out of the race.

That leaves...Edmonton and Ottawa. And boy wouldn't Biron love to wind up behind Hasek again. Ottawa might be a long shot, but you never know.

But that also leaves...Phoenix. Cujo isn't a long term solution. David LeNeveau isn't ready to take over. Phoenix has got to be considered a potential suitor.

Toronto could be interested. Belfour's done there. Is Tellqvist ready? I think Toronto's going to be interested in a goalie. Again though, Buffalo might not be too fond of the proximity. There's also the Kings. Garon is struggling and the Kings might be more comfortable getting some veteran insurance.

St. Louis could also be looking for a starting goaltender, though they're likely to wait until the offseason.

So as far as suitors go for Biron, common sense dictates that there's probably at least two serious suitors in Edmonton and Phoenix, with L.A as a dark horse and some long-shots in St. Louis, Toronto, and Ottawa.

However, I do think Buffalo has their weakness in negotiating too. There are a lot of goaltending options out there for teams - Buffalo has one of the better ones, but they're certainly not the only ones. I can only assume that Biron feels as though he deserves to be a starter right now, so he'll be really hard for Buffalo to re-sign in the off-season. And, of course, there will be even more options for other teams then as well, and less urgency. In June, Buffalo will be the team over the barrell.

Also if Regier stands pat and Buffalo has a 1st round exit, he's gonna hear a lot of catcalls about how he could have improved his (blank) by moving an asset he had stuck to the bench.

So I think they'd better not be too ransomy in making a deal. Their window of opportunity is closing.

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Old
03-02-2006, 08:27 PM
  #31
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I love Staois, but do the deal and do it now.

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Old
03-02-2006, 08:34 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Gotcha. Buffalo won't deal with Ottawa without making them over-pay, but they will give away a goaltender to Edmonton, who is desperate for a goaltender? What ever you say. If Ottawa makes the best offer for Biron, and that deal helps out the Sabres, they will deal with Ottawa. Buffalo will not think twice about dealing with Ottawa as it is very unlikely that Biron will see any playing time should face each other in the second or third round. Ottawa, on the other hand, may be apprehensive to deal with Buffalo as they don't want to improve the Sabres too much. But if they decide that having that solid backup goaltender is important enough, they will deal. The window of opportunity is open for so long, so you take advantage of it and make the moves you have to.
Are you sure about that? We don't see a lot of teams trading within their conference, and we really don't see it between two teams who are jockeying for playoff position in March. There's a lot of playing with fire there.

I'm pretty sure they'd "think twice" unless the difference in offer was astronomical. The value of improving a rival and risk of getting your nose rubbed in it 8 times a season (plus playoffs) by a guy you dumped does have value worth consideration.

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Old
03-02-2006, 09:13 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonQuixote
However, I do think Buffalo has their weakness in negotiating too. There are a lot of goaltending options out there for teams - Buffalo has one of the better ones, but they're certainly not the only ones. I can only assume that Biron feels as though he deserves to be a starter right now, so he'll be really hard for Buffalo to re-sign in the off-season. And, of course, there will be even more options for other teams then as well, and less urgency. In June, Buffalo will be the team over the barrell.

Also if Regier stands pat and Buffalo has a 1st round exit, he's gonna hear a lot of catcalls about how he could have improved his (blank) by moving an asset he had stuck to the bench.

So I think they'd better not be too ransomy in making a deal. Their window of opportunity is closing.
Regier has walked away from a valueable player based on salary in the recent past, so if an investment in resigning Marty at or near his current contractual number is an issue this summer... he may just walk away.

As it stands, there are also other options for Buffalo to pursue in trade, much like CuJo + Staios is argueably better than Biron - Staios on the Oil... Biron + (UFA Rental Depth Player) may be in HIS mind more valueable than Staios - Biron for the Sabres right now. That's what it comes down to and he's a slow, slow mover. Edmonton isn't the only place to get a depth right side D from and while Staios may be among the better names we've heard mentioned around here as possible trade return, Lowe isn't the only person Regier is going to have conversations with. Having argued this deal from the Oiler side (ie. Joseph for a mid-rounder and keeping Staios) for a while now... it almost seems like a fair idea for Buffalo to do the same.

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Old
03-02-2006, 09:31 PM
  #34
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How about...

To Edmonton: Martin Biron and JP Dumont
To Buffalo: Steve Staios, Radek Dvorak or Fernando Pisani, and a 1st or 2nd + a lower end prospect???

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Old
03-02-2006, 09:44 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
Regier has walked away from a valueable player based on salary in the recent past, so if an investment in resigning Marty at or near his current contractual number is an issue this summer... he may just walk away.

As it stands, there are also other options for Buffalo to pursue in trade, much like CuJo + Staios is argueably better than Biron - Staios on the Oil... Biron + (UFA Rental Depth Player) may be in HIS mind more valueable than Staios - Biron for the Sabres right now. That's what it comes down to and he's a slow, slow mover. Edmonton isn't the only place to get a depth right side D from and while Staios may be among the better names we've heard mentioned around here as possible trade return, Lowe isn't the only person Regier is going to have conversations with. Having argued this deal from the Oiler side (ie. Joseph for a mid-rounder and keeping Staios) for a while now... it almost seems like a fair idea for Buffalo to do the same.

Sure. I'm quite confident that Buffalo's best dance partner would be Phoenix, who have a lot more of the pieces that the Sabres could use. I can't imagine why Gretz & Co. wouldn't use some of their UFA veterans to lure Biron over.

But one would have to think that the Sabres are much, much better with any reasonable return on Biron than they are with him sitting on the bench. Unless Ryan Miller has some nagging injury that we don't know about, he's got to be your guy. And as far as insurance goes, Noranen's a pretty solid back-up. "Insurance" is all well and good, but if you hoard enough, it's paranioa. Unless there's a reason to think Miller could likely go down with injury, keeping Biron just for 'insurance' purposes is a far worse return than even the limpest of reasonable trade proposals.

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03-02-2006, 09:49 PM
  #36
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Biron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil
How about...

To Edmonton: Martin Biron and JP Dumont
To Buffalo: Steve Staios, Radek Dvorak or Fernando Pisani, and a 1st or 2nd + a lower end prospect???
I'm not sure if you are a Buffalo or Edmonton fan, but...

I am a Buffalo fan and like Biron and JP a lot, bit that seem to be an overpayment on Edmonton's part.

Biron for Staios + 3rd (or 2nd) seems right. Or I can even see a straight up trade.
Dvo for JP seems pretty even, both have a variety of pros and cons.

But making the 2nd or 3rd a 1st and adding a prospect is a bit high. Not way off but in my opinion is too much.

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Old
03-02-2006, 09:52 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonQuixote
Sure. I'm quite confident that Buffalo's best dance partner would be Phoenix, who have a lot more of the pieces that the Sabres could use. I can't imagine why Gretz & Co. wouldn't use some of their UFA veterans to lure Biron over.

But one would have to think that the Sabres are much, much better with any reasonable return on Biron than they are with him sitting on the bench. Unless Ryan Miller has some nagging injury that we don't know about, he's got to be your guy. And as far as insurance goes, Noranen's a pretty solid back-up. "Insurance" is all well and good, but if you hoard enough, it's paranioa. Unless there's a reason to think Miller could likely go down with injury, keeping Biron just for 'insurance' purposes is a far worse return than even the limpest of reasonable trade proposals.
Oh, I agree. Noronen could be a useful backup and now that they've convinced him to take the time in the AHL to regain some form/knock off some rust it seems the idea of moving one for help has gain momentum in Regier's eyes. A healthy Morris would be the guy I'd most like to see since he can play either Lydman or Numminen's roles on the right side. Staios, while game enough moving the puck, has never been a 1A choice as a puckmover or powerplay type point man. Morris gives them that potential, based on his previous play prior to what seems to be the most distressing season he's ever had.

Regier would be best served to deal Marty of the two since he's likely got more value and could garner more of a return than Noronen who at this point is essentially valueless. But you and I seeing it doesn't mean he's going to budge.

Granted, the Lydman availability was sooooo bloody obvious this summer that when he landed him I was stunned that he'd done something that I agreed with and for what I thought was a good return that my kharmic pool may be dry for the remainder of the season.

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Old
03-02-2006, 09:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot
And it creates a whole in the Sabres lineup in dealing Afinogenov. Boil it back to Staios-Biron with whichever side throwing in a pick to balance as needed.
Whole = complete or entire
Hole = an empty space

Carry on. Sorry. Correcting a moderator is probably not a bright idea but as an educator it is my call to help where I can. You don;t know unless someone shows you the right way.

To get me back off the banned list for correcting grammar, I like your thinking. Biron for Staios (throw in a pick if possible)

By the way... I swear this as truth. I had a dream this week where Biron was traded for Staios and man did it make me feel all warm and happy, kind of like the effect of the wine right now. Solid stay at home top 4 DMan with a real team attitude and a Hamilton hometown.

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Old
03-02-2006, 10:02 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Sounds to me like you're doing your best to talk yourself into believing that Edmonton is the only suitor for Buffalo. Sadly, it ain't so. Vancouver is looking for another goaltender as is Ottawa, no matter how much you protest that they are not. Teams that want to go deep are making sure they have guys that can fill in. Biron is a great backup in case their number one goes down.

They pretty much are, while there is a very select few who would'nt mind picking up a goaltender to give there number 1 a break going down the stretch, there is noone who need's that number one goalie or even close more then edmonton, and if it's Biron who's on the trade table, there is realistically no other team's who are willing to pick up his salary and UFA status just for him to back up a few games down the stretch....the only other playoff bound team (or close too) that could also really use a number one is tampa, but there goaltending compared to our's is still miles ahead.

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03-02-2006, 10:08 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOfNiagara
I'm not sure if you are a Buffalo or Edmonton fan, but...

I am a Buffalo fan and like Biron and JP a lot, bit that seem to be an overpayment on Edmonton's part.

Biron for Staios + 3rd (or 2nd) seems right. Or I can even see a straight up trade.
Dvo for JP seems pretty even, both have a variety of pros and cons.

But making the 2nd or 3rd a 1st and adding a prospect is a bit high. Not way off but in my opinion is too much.
Oiler fan, Dvorak is an UFA after this season. So basically you'd be trading Biron and Dumont for the other commodities that I mentioned and possibly a rental of Dvorak. If I could make that deal and keep our 1st round pick, I would be THRILLED!!! I've always liked Dumont, and he would fit in great on our 2nd line.

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Old
03-02-2006, 10:21 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper
Sigh...When will Oilers fans get the fact that it takes some serious assets to get a real no.1 goalie.
Thanks for labelling all of us based on one goofy proposal.

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Old
03-02-2006, 10:36 PM
  #42
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what about Peca for Biron?

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03-02-2006, 10:42 PM
  #43
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AHHHHHHH

his wife won't enter buffalo's city border

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Old
03-02-2006, 11:05 PM
  #44
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So Sabres how does this sounds

To Buf: Staios, Reasoner, Dvorak, Syvret, 1st

To Edm: Biron, Dumont, Afinogenov, Fitzpatrick

Just a thought, of course

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03-03-2006, 12:22 AM
  #45
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Well BUF fans have convinced themselves that Staios and a 2nd is coming their way - funny how you dont hear any other serious rumors about Biron? Could the market for $2 million average starter be a little softer than they want to believe - you bet it is. There is this thing called the cap now and $2 million is a pretty big chunk of change for an average starter.

Frankly I want Noronen more than Biron and I'll send you the 2nd round comp pick we will get for Ninimaki for him - then get Cujo for the rumored Winchester and a 3rd and good enough for this year unless Lowe has a deal for Luongo or Gigure lined up.

Biron is expensive and average and it wouldnt surprise me if BUF ends up keeping him and trading him for relatively little in the summer.

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03-03-2006, 12:44 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shekki
Thanks for labelling all of us based on one goofy proposal.
It's not the first goofy goalie proposal by Oilers fans and most likely it won't be the last.

Fact is that Oilers are out of play-offs on the 1st round with the current goalies, regardless of their opponent. That is if they even make it to play-offs.

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Old
03-03-2006, 01:46 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins
So Sabres how does this sounds

To Buf: Staios, Reasoner, Dvorak, Syvret, 1st

To Edm: Biron, Dumont, Afinogenov, Fitzpatrick

Just a thought, of course
Tooooo much change to a team that's winning.
I think it's fair value, just too much change.

If you guys want Dumont/Afinogenov, how about just make it Staios, Dvorak and a 2nd for Biron and Dumont/Max...?
(although I think this has been covered already)
I think Dvorak is a better two-way player than JP or Max, but the Sabres are loaded with two-way guys. I'm not sure the downgrade in goalscoring ability from Dumont to Dvorak (and JP's chemistry with Briere) would appeal to Regier.
As for Max, I think he's staying in Buffalo. For the first time ever, he's had a linemate who's managed to stick with him for a longer period of time in Roy. And while he's certainly not using his linemates all the time, playing with Roy seems to have a good effect on both of them.
Consider that's he's one point off the team leading point-scorer... And I don't see him being moved. Yet.

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03-03-2006, 02:06 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto
Tooooo much change to a team that's winning.
I think it's fair value, just too much change.

If you guys want Dumont/Afinogenov, how about just make it Staios, Dvorak and a 2nd for Biron and Dumont/Max...?
(although I think this has been covered already)
I think Dvorak is a better two-way player than JP or Max, but the Sabres are loaded with two-way guys. I'm not sure the downgrade in goalscoring ability from Dumont to Dvorak (and JP's chemistry with Briere) would appeal to Regier.
As for Max, I think he's staying in Buffalo. For the first time ever, he's had a linemate who's managed to stick with him for a longer period of time in Roy. And while he's certainly not using his linemates all the time, playing with Roy seems to have a good effect on both of them.
Consider that's he's one point off the team leading point-scorer... And I don't see him being moved. Yet.
I know it was just a thought, I just really really want Biron on the Oilers

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03-03-2006, 02:08 AM
  #49
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dumont can go no where.. this season. he was out all year with briere.. with the same injury. these two were friends going into hockey. i don't see how we could get any more value then that. Gretzky anyone?

i hope u guys get marty but im affraid of meeting you in the finals and loosing.. oviously marty could steal a few games vrs us. I think the sabres are looking at spacek more then staios. Remember buffalo fans.. we would be replacing brian campbell.

yeah i have no problem with the oilers being good and i would be pissed if we got nothing for marty and u had some chumpy goalie. Lets face it.. it would be needed for your team. i don't see why your team could not trade with such importance our way. Its not like we are selling you an empty beer bottle.

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Old
03-03-2006, 07:32 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
The Sabres are trading from a position of weakness, so it may not take as much as you'd think.
How do you figure it is weakness? If Marty or Mika were UFA maybe so. Far from weakness. With 77 points and 4th in the conference and 6th in the league, their is nothing weak about us.

Edmonton is trading from weakness! They are never going to make the playoffs unless the get a goalie. FACT. That is weakness.

Also, Buffalo needs another center like a whole in the head.

You guys want to send us crap for two good players. An UFA in T that u just signed. A prospect that there is no telling if he will be decent in the league and a pick for a probable 60 point scorer this season and a starting goalie.

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