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Greatest Forwards of All Time #9

View Poll Results: Who is the greatest forward of all time? #9
Stan Mikita 3 4.76%
Mark Messier 14 22.22%
Howie Morenz 15 23.81%
Mike Bossy 8 12.70%
Bobby Clarke 2 3.17%
Jaromir Jagr 11 17.46%
Bryan Trottier 2 3.17%
Steve Yzerman 7 11.11%
Ted Lindsay 0 0%
Marcel Dionne 1 1.59%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-03-2006, 01:46 PM
  #1
canucksfan
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Greatest Forwards of All Time #9

Esposito won with 34.88% of the vote and Marcel Dionne will be added. I am going to vote for Morenz and add Milt Schmidt.

#1 Gretzky(64.71%)
#2 Lemieux(63.77%)
#3 Howe(63.41%)
#4 Richard(31.58%)
#5 Beliveau(53.49%)
#6 Hull(28.81%)
#7 LaFleur(72.73% won tiebreaker)
#8 Esposito(34.88%)

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Old
03-03-2006, 04:47 PM
  #2
reckoning
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I`m voting Morenz as well, but it`s likely a waste of time as he`ll finish 3rd again. Logic would dictate that he would move up as the guys above him get removed after they win a round, but there`s a high number of voters who refuse to consider anybody who played before WW II.

After Messier wins this round, add Apps or Geoffrion. The list of options is already tilted too far with post-expansion players.

To Canucksfan: How long is this going on for? Top 10? Top 20? Any plans to do goalies or defencemen later?

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03-03-2006, 05:11 PM
  #3
JWINK19
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I'm going with Messier again. Not sure who to add.

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Old
03-03-2006, 05:22 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
I`m voting Morenz as well, but it`s likely a waste of time as he`ll finish 3rd again. Logic would dictate that he would move up as the guys above him get removed after they win a round, but there`s a high number of voters who refuse to consider anybody who played before WW II.

After Messier wins this round, add Apps or Geoffrion. The list of options is already tilted too far with post-expansion players.

To Canucksfan: How long is this going on for? Top 10? Top 20? Any plans to do goalies or defencemen later?
I was going to do a top ten but I will do at least a top 20. I was planning on doing the top defenceman as well after I'm done with this list.

I completely agree with you that there are too many post expansion players on the list. Both Yzerman and Dionne were added way too early.

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03-03-2006, 06:06 PM
  #5
God Bless Canada
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Originally Posted by canucksfan
I was going to do a top ten but I will do at least a top 20. I was planning on doing the top defenceman as well after I'm done with this list.

I completely agree with you that there are too many post expansion players on the list. Both Yzerman and Dionne were added way too early.
I think this is right about where Yzerman should have been added. 20-ish. (Dionne was the 18th forward added). I wouldn't have considered adding Dionne for another 5 spots, maybe 10. Not enough playoff success.

I've always viewed the top four centres ever as being pretty concrete: Gretzky, Lemieux, Beliveau and Esposito. Once you get past that, there are five centres worthy of consideration, who aren't separated by much: Mikita, Clarke, Trottier, Morenz and Messier. Messier would be No. 9 on my list. Frankly, I'm surprised to see that Morenz has been consistently finishing ahead of Mikita. (I think Mikita would be a lock for No. 5 centre with a little more playoff success). For those not aware, Morenz is widely considered to be hockey's first superstar.

As this poll continues, I think you're going to see more and more tight races.

PS: Is Cyclone Taylor to be considered a forward or a defenceman?

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Old
03-03-2006, 08:53 PM
  #6
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Way too early for both Esposito & Messier. If I had too choose between the two, would have picked Messier. Too me Esposito is the greatest garbage goal scorer ever which does not qualify him for the top 10. People are not doing proper research. My choice again is Morenz and add Max Bentley

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Old
03-03-2006, 09:05 PM
  #7
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Voted for the moose for the 5th time in a row.

Add "phantom" Joe Malone.

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Old
03-04-2006, 07:46 PM
  #8
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Looks like we're splitting the vote as to which pre-expansion player to add. We've had votes for Schmidt, Apps, Geoffrion, Bentley and Malone. I think we should add Syl Apps, who was a finalist for the Hart Trophy five years in a row.

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03-04-2006, 07:47 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider
Looks like we're splitting the vote as to which pre-expansion player to add. We've had votes for Schmidt, Apps, Geoffrion, Bentley and Malone. I think we should add Syl Apps, who was a finalist for the Hart Trophy five years in a row.
add Malone

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03-04-2006, 10:53 PM
  #10
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For your consideration:

Bill Cook: Considered by many to be the greatest right winger ever to play the game. He was a remarkably gifted and rugged competitor who served as the catalyst on the New York Rangers' famous Bread Line with his brother Bun and Frank Boucher. This trio dominated opposing defenses for several years with their precision passing and relentless effort. In addition to being the first skater signed officially by the club, he became the team's first captain and the foundation on which the club was built. Cook's input was crucial to the Rangers' first two Stanley Cup triumphs in 1928 and 1933. Following 4 years service in the Great War, Cook’s pro career started in 1922, at the age of 26, in the WCHL where he won 2 scoring titles, and was a 3 time all-star. Despite not starting his NHL career until he was 30, Bill led the league in goals 3 times, points twice, and was a 4 time all-star. He was twice runner-up for the Hart Trophy. Cook also scored the dramatic first-ever NHL Stanley Cup-winning overtime goal in 1933.

Cyclone Taylor: Taylor performed exceptionally well at several positions during his legendary career. His dynamic rushes and memorable scoring feats made him one of hockey's first superstars. He was one of the few players in the history of the game capable of skating backwards as fast as many could forwards. The nickname "Cyclone" was first accorded this exciting figure by local reporters after a cartoonist with the Ottawa Journal depicted one of his cyclonic rushes in vivid detail. He broke into hockey as one of the game’s earliest rushing defensemen. When he moved west to the PCHA he switched to the forward position, and there he thrived from 1913 to 1921. While employed on the West Coast, Taylor averaged more than a goal per game in a formidable display of offensive prowess. His second Stanley Cup triumph came in 1915. He scored six goals in the Millionaires' three-game domination of Ottawa in the championship showdown. The sheer magnitude of Taylor's excellence in the series elevated him to the status of hero right across Canada. Taylor won 5 PCHA scoring titles, leading the league in goals 4 times and assists 5 times. He earned the remarkable distinction of being named to the First All-Star Team everywhere he played from 1900 to 1918.

Newsy Lalonde: was, simply, the greatest hockey player of his time. He was the complete package: he could skate, shoot, stick handle, and pass expertly. He could play it as tough as anyone who ever put on skates, and had a knack for leadership. As a result of his feuds with the Quebec Bulldogs’ Joe Hall, among others, fans came out in droves to cheer him on or scream for his blood. Although primarily a center, he also spent time as a defenseman and a rover. Newsy played 20 years of "Major League" hockey, and scored over a goal a game in 16 of those seasons. He scored 38 goals in 11 games in 1909-10. He had a 9 goal game, and an 8 goal game, in the NHA, and had a 6 goal game in the NHL. He won scoring titles in 5 different leagues. In the NHL's first 4 seasons he finished 4th, 1st, 2nd and 1st in the scoring race.
In 1918-19 he had a season that ranks among the very best of all-time. He was captain and player/coach of the Montreal Canadiens. He became the first player to lead the NHL in goals, 22, assists, 10, and points, 32, in a season. He did this in 17 games of an 18 game schedule. He then capped it off by taking the Canadiens to within 1 win of the Stanley Cup, before the series was canceled on acount of he and several other player being hospitalized due to the Spanish Influenza Pandemic. He set a record for playoff goals with 17 in 10 games, that stood until Reggie Leach scored 19 in 16 games in 1976.

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Old
03-05-2006, 12:54 AM
  #11
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I like Trottier but Morenz is a legend.

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Old
03-05-2006, 11:23 AM
  #12
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Am I the only one who sees Messier roughly on par with Ron Francis? Messier did win a couple of awards (Hart, Pearson X2, Conn Smythe X1), but he was outperformed by both Gretzky and Lemieux in both of his Hart/Pearson years and by Gretzky and Kurri his Conn Smythe year (offensively, at least). I would like it if those who are older and wiser than me could shed some light on what Messier did to deserve those awards over the other guys mentioned.

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Old
03-05-2006, 12:20 PM
  #13
reckoning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asab
Am I the only one who sees Messier roughly on par with Ron Francis? Messier did win a couple of awards (Hart, Pearson X2, Conn Smythe X1), but he was outperformed by both Gretzky and Lemieux in both of his Hart/Pearson years and by Gretzky and Kurri his Conn Smythe year (offensively, at least). I would like it if those who are older and wiser than me could shed some light on what Messier did to deserve those awards over the other guys mentioned.
Don`t mistake the fact that Gretzky and Lemieux outscored him with out performing him. In `90 Messier finished 2nd in scoring, but it was remarkable because while Kurri, Anderson & co. scoring totals were shadows of what they were with Gretzky in the 80s, Messier had his best year ever. While other Oilers were floudering without Gretzky, Mess picked up the slack and was thriving.

In `92 he joined the Rangers and won MVP due to the fact that he almost single-handedly took those underachievers from 8th to 1st overall.

Is he overrated? Maybe a little, but he`s still one of the best ever. I respect Ron Francis, but he`s not in Messier`s league.

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03-05-2006, 12:33 PM
  #14
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Trottier for me.

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Old
03-05-2006, 12:34 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
Don`t mistake the fact that Gretzky and Lemieux outscored him with out performing him. In `90 Messier finished 2nd in scoring, but it was remarkable because while Kurri, Anderson & co. scoring totals were shadows of what they were with Gretzky in the 80s, Messier had his best year ever. While other Oilers were floudering without Gretzky, Mess picked up the slack and was thriving.

In `92 he joined the Rangers and won MVP due to the fact that he almost single-handedly took those underachievers from 8th to 1st overall.

Is he overrated? Maybe a little, but he`s still one of the best ever. I respect Ron Francis, but he`s not in Messier`s league.
I'm a huge Francis fan and Messier hater and I would agree with every bit of that. Its kind of funny but there is no middle ground with Messier. IMO people always seem to rate him way to high or way to low.

JMHO but there are about 5 to 7 greater players than Messier on that list and maybe 3 others off of it.

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03-05-2006, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
Don`t mistake the fact that Gretzky and Lemieux outscored him with out performing him. In `90 Messier finished 2nd in scoring, but it was remarkable because while Kurri, Anderson & co. scoring totals were shadows of what they were with Gretzky in the 80s, Messier had his best year ever. While other Oilers were floudering without Gretzky, Mess picked up the slack and was thriving.

In `92 he joined the Rangers and won MVP due to the fact that he almost single-handedly took those underachievers from 8th to 1st overall.

Is he overrated? Maybe a little, but he`s still one of the best ever. I respect Ron Francis, but he`s not in Messier`s league.
Might want to doublecheck some of that.

In the 90-91 season, the Rangers were 2nd in the Patrick Division, 4th in the East. In 89-90, they were still tied for 4th in the East, but won the Patrick. Messier was the spark that help ignite their Cup run, but that was a good team before he joined.

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03-05-2006, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Might want to doublecheck some of that.

In the 90-91 season, the Rangers were 2nd in the Patrick Division, 4th in the East. In 89-90, they were still tied for 4th in the East, but won the Patrick. Messier was the spark that help ignite their Cup run, but that was a good team before he joined.
In `91 they were 8th overall in the entire league (85 pts).
In `92 they were 1st overall in the entire league (105 pts).

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03-05-2006, 01:11 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by reckoning
In `91 they were 8th overall in the entire league (85 pts).
In `92 they were 1st overall in the entire league (105 pts).
Gotcha. Still a good team.

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Old
03-05-2006, 02:21 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
PS: Is Cyclone Taylor to be considered a forward or a defenceman?
I would consider him a forward but that's a tough one.

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03-05-2006, 04:52 PM
  #20
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Damn, screwed up my vote. Should have voted for Morenz.

Add the Big M.

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03-05-2006, 08:24 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asab
Am I the only one who sees Messier roughly on par with Ron Francis? Messier did win a couple of awards (Hart, Pearson X2, Conn Smythe X1), but he was outperformed by both Gretzky and Lemieux in both of his Hart/Pearson years and by Gretzky and Kurri his Conn Smythe year (offensively, at least). I would like it if those who are older and wiser than me could shed some light on what Messier did to deserve those awards over the other guys mentioned.
Ron Francis isn't a top 30 forward.

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Old
03-05-2006, 10:18 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Ron Francis isn't a top 30 forward.
Agreed. Francis had a great career, deserves consideration as one of the top 100 players in NHL history, but Messier is a top 15 all-time forward. Messier is a cut above Francis.

I love Francis, his place in the HHOF is assured, he could be counted to contribute in any situation and at any time (regular season or playoffs), but if this poll is only going to the top 20, then Francis shouldn't even be added.

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03-06-2006, 07:17 AM
  #23
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Voted for Yzerman. Please add Francis.

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03-06-2006, 12:05 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider
Looks like we're splitting the vote as to which pre-expansion player to add. We've had votes for Schmidt, Apps, Geoffrion, Bentley and Malone. I think we should add Syl Apps, who was a finalist for the Hart Trophy five years in a row.
To avoid the proverbial vote split, I'm going to side with Hockey Outsider and reckoning and vote for Syl Apps to be added.


Last edited by God Bless Canada: 03-06-2006 at 01:39 PM.
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