Yes, it comes from Yvon Pedneault. Yes it is the 2 Millionth time this rumor comes up. No word as to what it would take, not sure whe he fits in with Komi/Hainsey looking to establish themselves, unless the trade would be D for D, in which case:
Calgary certainly can't afford Brisebois more than Habs
Markov/Souray are no-nos
Rivet seems like a lot
Bouilon is not enough
Quintal is too old and expensive to interest Flames
Komi is out of the question
...and more talented but greener and softer Hainsey for tougher more experienced Gauthier??? Not sure I would do it myself...
Sutter is building a bigger, tougher, younger team in Calgary, and that doesn't describe too many of the Habs players, so I am not sure what they would want in return. I would say Komo is way off limits, and if you don't trade a Dman, they we have yet another one is an incredibly crowded blueline in both Montreal and Hamilton. Also, Gauthier was +5 on a Flames team that last year had so many players in the minuses. I wonder why he is out of favour with Sutter?
A buddy of mine in Calgary said the Flames are looking for help upfront. My guess would be a 2-for-1 deal, if anything. Sunny/Kilger and Bouillion/Beauchemin/Dykhuis for Gauthier. I'd do it.
A buddy of mine in Calgary said the Flames are looking for help upfront. My guess would be a 2-for-1 deal, if anything. Sunny/Kilger and Bouillion/Beauchemin/Dykhuis for Gauthier. I'd do it.
None of those players have any value nor do they add much of anything to Calgary. Except maybe Sundstrom, but that would be minimal.
I'd expect Gauthier to cost the Habs something along the lines of Bulis, to potentially costing Zednik, depending on how much the Flames want to move him.
In the offseason, I would have been tempted. At this point, with Hainsey having progressed and needing NHL ice time, I'd pass.
Have you ever watched Gauthier's game besides his physical side? I have, it's NOTHING special at all, hey why not head down to the flames board and see how much they "love" Gauthier.
The only thing he's got going for him is his big hits, besides that he's a #6/7 dman!
People just can't see past his big hits, that you don't understand he becomes a liability, he tends to run around alot, just looking for that big hit, and he's made a few turnovers already, 1 led to a blues PP goal.
I've seen Gauthier plenty kiddo.
He's a legit #4 defenseman with a mean streak. It's not only his big hits that are appealing about his game; it's the fact that he contains the opposition well down low and to the side boards. His mobility is limited, but he has a long reach and doesn't allow the opposition to take liberties in the crease.
The fact of the matter is players like Gauthier are useful to playoff calibre clubs due to their ability to get under the opposition's skin and step up their game when given a specific assignment. This is what Gauthier has consistently done, and anyone who's watched him closely over the years would be aware of this.
Coincidentally, this type of player is also exactly what Montreal has lacked in years past.
Bulis is a third liner with energy and versatility. There are a lot of players in the league with his capabilities. Now it's refreshing to see a player like him in Montreal, but his trade value isn't all that high. Same deal for Zednik.
Other than those two, there aren't any forwards on Montreal that Calgary would be interested in (aside from Ryder/Hossa).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
None of those players have any value nor do they add much of anything to Calgary. Except maybe Sundstrom, but that would be minimal.
I'd expect Gauthier to cost the Habs something along the lines of Bulis, to potentially costing Zednik, depending on how much the Flames want to move him.
In the offseason, I would have been tempted. At this point, with Hainsey having progressed and needing NHL ice time, I'd pass.
And you think you'll have any credibility after a post like that ??? Have you ever saw Gauthier? I'm a fan of him for his physical side, but he's often out of position because he wants to give the big hit at the bad time. I'd love to have him with the habs, but not now because we have Brisebois, Rivet, Quintal and Komisarek on the right side. I don't believe this rumor at all.Washington, Los-Angeles and Detroit are probably more interrested. Toronto needs some help on their defense, but they need a faster guy.
You're completely wrong, NO WAY IN HELL he's a top 4 dman. He barely has any hockey sense, he ALWAYS looks for that big hit, and often gets caught and runs around, his passes and shots are mediocre at very very best. He is not worth Bulis, and i don't know how you can mention Zednik, you're usually right most of the time Mike8, not in this case.
See, i realize Gauthier is pretty much a heart and soul player, but you will also realize he is not a top 4 dman, infact on the flames 3rd pairing, i think Commodore, Montador and Montador Ference could handle the #5 and #6 spots quite easily, Gauthier is all hype.
I never mentioned Gauthier is WORTH Bulis and Zednik. I said that's what he'd COST the Canadiens. See the difference? There's no one else on Montreal that would be remotely intriguing to Calgary save perhaps Ryder and Hossa. With the Flames wanting offense, this is what it would cost Montreal in a 'take it or leave it' stance, I would assume. I even mentioned that I wouldn't do this deal, yet you still seem incapable of understanding that I'm not advocating this deal.
I don't care about Gauthier's hype. I've watched him since juniors and he's a legit top 4 defenseman when used properly. Give him a specific assignment, and he thrives. He's a big game player that steps it up when it counts and can be lined up against players like Lindros or Thornton, given the assignment to shadow them, and he'll do it well. If he's put out on the ice against a Bure or Elias, he'll get burned. Use him properly and he's a legit top 4 defenseman.
Players like this can be huge in playoff series'. I'm not thinking in terms of general regular season play; in that way, you're right, he's lacking on some fundamentals. In the playoffs though, he's a warrior and precisely what Montreal (and most teams) need more of. He adds the depth, physical abilities, and becomes a threat (and thus distraction) out there to the opposition.
This is what makes players like Marchment and Kasparaitis valuable. Both are lacking on some fundamentals and can be exposed defensively. But they're both capable of carrying out specific assignments and doing it well.
He's a legit #4 defenseman with a mean streak. It's not only his big hits that are appealing about his game; it's the fact that he contains the opposition well down low and to the side boards. His mobility is limited, but he has a long reach and doesn't allow the opposition to take liberties in the crease.
That sums up pretty well my thoughts. Gauthier's value around the league is not very high as of now, as he's somehow underrated, but he is definatly more valuable and useful to his team than people actually think he is. As you said, he has that mean streak and that willing to use the body. He has always been pretty good at clearing the front of his net and along the boards. I wouldn't say it would take Zednik for us to get Gauthier, but having to give Bulis is pretty realistic.
With that being said, a question comes to mind: considering Souray's back in good shape, and Rivet is now 100% healthy, are we still in need of a defensive defenseman with a mean streak such as Gauthier? Maybe. On the other hand, our offense still needs talent, especially on the top 2 lines, and giving up Bulis, who's only starting playing great, for a defenseman wouldn't be that smart of a move. I'd think about it twice, if I was Gainey, before giving up one of the guys that currently form our core on offense.
And you think you'll have any credibility after a post like that ??? Have you ever saw Gauthier? I'm a fan of him for his physical side, but he's often out of position because he wants to give the big hit at the bad time. I'd love to have him with the habs, but not now because we have Brisebois, Rivet, Quintal and Komisarek on the right side. I don't believe this rumor at all.Washington, Los-Angeles and Detroit are probably more interrested. Toronto needs some help on their defense, but they need a faster guy.
Thanks for the advice. I'll work on toeing the line on the Habs board at HF to build up my credibility. After all, the sole reason I post here is to have credibility among the numerous hockey experts here. Most of which are apparently incapable of reading.
Personally i think the Flames would deal Gauthier for Bulis...i know their fans will probably tell you otherwise, but i think that if BG was willing to move Bulis, the deal would get done. But are the Habs a better team for dealing Bulis for Gauthier? And if we acquire Gauthier for a forward, who goes on our defence? Are there any teams around the league that would take Quintal after his last stint away from the Habs? Would anybody take Rivet and his contract? Do the Habs still want to deal Brisebois?
Honestly at this point i would not deal Bulis for Gauthier. If a deal could be worked out where we sent Sundstrom + change, then sure, but Bulis and especially Zednik are out of the question; at least IMO.
Guys save the "smack" talk for other boards. Were all Habs fans here and should be able to have an interesting and well thought out debate without resorting to name calling.
Right right, but you're still saying he's a top 4 legit dman.
Yes, because he is if used properly. Just as I felt Souray was a top 4 defenseman if used properly the past year on this board when everyone else claimed he was a #5-6. Just as I believe Sundstrom is a strong third line player if used properly, despite the fact that he's playing himself to a 13th forward spot at the moment.
See what I'm saying here? A player's current play isn't always indicative of their abilities. The coach, system, players surrounding them and the role they're assigned factor into how effective a given player is.
I would never ever trade Bulis for Gauthier. Gauthier is more often then not, a LIABILITY.
I think people don't realize that Bulis is much, much more than a 3rd line left-wing...this is his breakout year (finally) and Julien should exploit it.
The defenseman is the position who takes the most hockey sense, if he has ''barely'' any hockey sense how did he make the nhl? And logs around 20 minutes a night?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
he ALWAYS looks for that big hit,
Always? I always thought always = 100% so basically gauthier is always trying to lang big hits and is not inept at doing anything else good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
his passes and shots are mediocre at very very best.
I guess you don't watch him much, a defenseman who makes ''mediocre passes at very very best'' don't play in the NHL let alone logging 20 minutes of ice time per game on a strong defensive corp. You make him sound like Dwyer turned into a defenseman and I'm not kidding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
He is not worth Bulis, and i don't know how you can mention Zednik, you're usually right most of the time Mike8, not in this case.
mike8 is simply pointing out the obvious, Bulis and Zednik are the only player (maybe hossa and ryder but they aren't proven commodities at this point) that the Flames would probably be interested in. He never said he would do it and in our current situation I wouldn't do a trade Gauthier for Bulis or Zed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
See, i realize Gauthier is pretty much a heart and soul player, but you will also realize he is not a top 4 dman, infact on the flames 3rd pairing, i think Commodore, Montador and Ference could handle the #5 and #6 spots quite easily, Gauthier is all hype.
He can get the job done as a number 4 defenseman and is at worst an elite number #5 on every team in the league. Commodore can handle a #5 spot quite easily? He has never been more than a fringe NHLer in his career let alone handle a #5 spot quite easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
I would never ever trade Bulis for Gauthier. Gauthier is more often then not, a LIABILITY.
You rarely see someone who is a constant liability being the +/- leader of his team. Yes he has work to do in the defensive zone but your claims are exaggerated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
Souray is far better then Gauthier, he has a wicked shot, he can pass, his skating for a guy his size is decent, and i really doubt you've seen Gauthier play much, because i would say Bouillon has more chance in montreal to become a top 4 dman then Gauthier ever will.
Mike didn't say Gauthier was better than Souray, he said used in specific situation, they can play as top-4 rearguard and I thought the comparison was actually very good.
As your Gauthier versus Bouillon, let's say if Gauthier plays in Chicago, Nashville and Columbus (just to name a few), he's a top-4 rearguard while Bouillon is still a #6-7.
5th 6th D-man at most....Big HIts....and really..nothing else...
Can't make a smooth outlet pass, doesn't have a good shot, is fundamental even defensively....
The guy is simply a big hitter ...people think Gauthier and then they think Kasparitis in teh same breath and while Gauthier really can hit with the best of em' he is not Kasparitis who is a much better all around defensman despite his propensity to be erratic....
Anyway, it pains me to say all of this because I want a good return for Gauthier....SOme Kings fans were offering like Cammellerli and MOdry and thinking it wasn't quite enough...like they'd have to throw in a pick or something..unbeliveable....
It's funny because for the most part FLames players are underated but with Gauthier he's overated.....
5th 6th D-man at most....Big HIts....and really..nothing else...
Can't make a smooth outlet pass, doesn't have a good shot, is fundamental even defensively....
The guy is simply a big hitter ...people think Gauthier and then they think Kasparitis in teh same breath and while Gauthier really can hit with the best of em' he is not Kasparitis who is a much better all around defensman despite his propensity to be erratic....
Anyway, it pains me to say all of this because I want a good return for Gauthier....SOme Kings fans were offering like Cammellerli and MOdry and thinking it wasn't quite enough...like they'd have to throw in a pick or something..unbeliveable....
It's funny because for the most part FLames players are underated but with Gauthier he's overated.....
A top 4...? Not a chance in Hell...
Komi's right....the debate is over....
Why is the debate over? Because you're a Flame season ticket holder and I should respect your view more than my oen eyes? :p
There was never a debate. There were kids pushing their view on a player, and saying anyone who disagreed is wrong. That's idiocy, not a debate.
I stand by the fact that Gauthier is a top 4 defenseman if used properly. I agree in all your comments on the flaws in Gauthier's game, but you fail to comment on the positive aspects that he brings to a club. In other words, you're presenting a very flawed analysis of a player.
Saku K, thanks for clearing up what I was intending to say. It was (unfortunately) needed here, it seems.
So your anaylsis living where? Is less flawed then mine as a season ticket holder in Calgary who in some way shape or form watches virtually even every road game....
I think you assuming a little here...
The fact is homersim's can be a disease that effects our views on our players...Because we see them more...
It be easy for me to overate Iginla or Leopold or something....
But I am hear to say that watching Gautheir day in and day out for his whole career the guy is not TOP 4 NHL material...not when you compare him to TOp 4's on other teams......
On the worst team in teh league he might be there by default but he's no one intended on being in that role....
I hope you do trade for him...fans will turn on him quicker then Briesbois
...
Anyway not to be combative..I wish I could agree but Gauthier is simply not that good....
He doeesn'y play positionally right defensively....he doesn't make god out let passes...his shot is marginal at best.....
He jsut line's em up and let's em fly and he's often hurt in the process...
Bottom line... I'd welcome Gauthier with open arms. I think he could do very well here (replacing Quintal). But Gainey's not shipping a Bulis-type player to Calgary for him.
I understood what he said and disagree strongly, Souray is far superior to Mr. Gauthier in all aspects of the game except maybe hitting
This is the problem. You don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not sure why you're not understanding it, but clearly you're not.
I never drew a parallel between Souray and Gauthier's styles of play. I said most everyone here claimed Souray was a #5-6 defenseman over the past year, while I claimed he was a #4. People felt Souray was a #5-6 because he was playing as a #5-6, whereas I didn't think his play at that time was indicative of what he could do given the right circumstances.
Right now, Souray is proving to be a top four defenseman because he's been given the proper role and circumstances to thrive.
If Souray played on Edmonton, he would be exposed and would see his value plummet to a #6 defenseman.
This is the way I feel with Gauthier. He has some severe fundamental flaws and needs to be assigned a specific role in a system that suits him in order to excel. This is the same case with most NHL defensemen; they thrive in some systems and are exposed in others.
I would really like to know why you think Gauthier is so great.
I don't know any other ways to spell it out to you. I've tried to tell you a half dozen times on this thread alone, yet you keep misunderstanding me and asking me how many times I've seen him. :p
I'll give you a hint: understanding why someone values a certain player can only be communicated through writing, not knowing how many times they've watched that player. I've already told you that I've watched a lot of Gauthier over the years; including this one. I certainly hope that people don't start demanding how many times everyone's seen a certain player in order to give an analysis of that player, because I don't keep records of how many games I've seen of each player over the years.
