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Old
10-27-2003, 04:05 PM
  #1
hockeyaddict101
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6 Points

Oilers record last year with Ninimaa and Marchant and Comrie in the lineup after 8 games last year. 2-4-2-0. = 6 points.

Record now = 3-5 = 6 points

This is for all the posts that with these guys we would be so much better.

Obviously not necessarily.

Lets keep thinks in perspective people.

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10-27-2003, 04:07 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Oilers record last year with Ninimaa and Marchant and Comrie in the lineup after 8 games last year. 2-4-2-0. = 6 points.

Record now = 3-5 = 6 points

This is for all the posts that with these guys we would be so much better.

Obviously not necessarily.

Lets keep thinks in perspective people.

Thank you my good man - I'm glad to see that all the calm and sensible people are showing some good evidence for calm.

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10-27-2003, 04:08 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Oilers record last year with Ninimaa and Marchant and Comrie in the lineup after 8 games last year. 2-4-2-0. = 6 points.

Record now = 3-5 = 6 points

This is for all the posts that with these guys we would be so much better.

Obviously not necessarily.

Lets keep thinks in perspective people.
Stop with the facts already - don't you know the sky is falling - trade the whole team - were doomed

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:25 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Oilers record last year with Ninimaa and Marchant and Comrie in the lineup after 8 games last year. 2-4-2-0. = 6 points.

Record now = 3-5 = 6 points

This is for all the posts that with these guys we would be so much better.

Obviously not necessarily.

Lets keep thinks in perspective people.
That point is not at all relative. So I guess we should just be the same team every year? Not to mention the fact that not being 6-2 right now is a travesty......

That may be the worst attempt at stat manipulation I've seen in a long time.

No one improves...no, that'd just be insane

We wouldn't be better with a better roster....no, that isn't possible

No, we should try to repeat last year, shouldn't we...

C'mon spaz, you know better than that.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:28 PM
  #5
hockeyaddict101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
That point is not at all relative. So I guess we should just be the same team every year? Not to mention the fact that not being 6-2 right now is a travesty......

That may be the worst attempt at stat manipulation I've seen in a long time.
I guess you are entitled to your opinion. I was just pointing out the facts.

I think you missed the point.

Of couse I want them to be better, but my point is Comrie, Niinimaa and Marchant did not make a hell a lot of difference after 8 games last year, so it is too early for everyone to panic. If you notice my post was directed to all the people that are posting that the deals were all a mistake after 8 whole games.

Yes pulling out the facts is terrible, let me never do it again. .

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10-27-2003, 04:30 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
I guess you are entitled to your opinion. I was just pointing out the facts.

Of couse I want them to be better, but my point is Comrie, Niinimaa and Marchant did not make a hell a lot of difference after 8 games last year, so it is too early for everyone to panic.

Yes pulling out the facts is terrible, let me never do it again.
I know I'm not panicking, I've said the things I say now for a long time, our current results just confirm them.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:32 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
I know I'm not panicking, I've said the things I say now for a long time, our current results just confirm them.
So does that mean our record after the deals which was excellent and pulled us into the playoffs confirmed the trades was good? Hmm, hate to pull facts on the table again.

But that record didn't prove the trades and the moves were good just as the slow start doesn't prove they were bad either.

People are overreacting and that is my simple point!

Thought I would pull out some real ancient history for you. The record after 8 games in 89-90 when the Oilers when the Stanley Cup 3-4-1.

Wonder how many people were panicking then?

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:35 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
So does that mean our record after the deals which was excellent and pulled us into the playoffs confirmed the trades was good? Hmm, hate to pull facts on the table again.

But that record didn't prove the trades and the moves were good just as the slow start doesn't prove they were bad either.

People are overreacting and that is my simple point!
Some people that thought the team was good enough to begin with may be, but say, I've had problems with this lineup, and things I would do, for a LONG time now, many of which I still feel have not been addressed. There's also my contention that this team should simply perform alot better than it does, which is where my problem with coaching comes in, but that's for another thread.

You don't really want to have to nearly run the table just to finish 8th again do you? PLEASE tell me that wouldn't make you happy, because I sincerely hope that no one who's an Oilers fan would be happy with that.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:39 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Some people that thought the team was good enough to begin with may be, but say, I've had problems with this lineup, and things I would do, for a LONG time now, many of which I still feel have not been addressed. There's also my contention that this team should simply perform alot better than it does, which is where my problem with coaching comes in, but that's for another thread.

You don't really want to have to nearly run the table just to finish 8th again do you? PLEASE tell me that wouldn't make you happy, because I sincerely hope that no one who's an Oilers fan would be happy with that.
You are really having trouble grasping the point aren't you?

It has been eight games, and it is much too early to say how they will finish.

BTW, the 89-90 Oilers were 3-4-1 after 8 games and we all know what happened at the end of that season (just in case you miss the point, I am not comparing the two teams, just showing how records 8 games in does not always show how the season will go).

Nowhere have I said I am happy with this record, I simple said that it is too early to push the panic button.

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10-27-2003, 04:40 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
You are really having trouble grasping the point aren't you?

It has been eight games, and it is much too early to say how they will finish.

BTW, the 89-90 Oilers were 3-4-1 after 8 games and we all know what happened at the end of that season (just in case you miss the point, I am not comparing the two teams, just showing how records 8 games in does not always show how the season will go).

Nowhere have I said I am happy with this record, I simple said that it is too early to push the panic button.
Oh I get the point, I just think alot of the people that have been percieved as "panicking" have actually had legit concerns that they want addressed for a long time now, so expressing those is not panicking.

I am however in a hurry, every wasted game is one more pressure-cooker at the end.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:44 PM
  #11
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im one of the people that has been VERY vocal about my misgivings about this team... but it hasnt been with the lineup (other than salo playing, semenov not playing enough and why pisani is playing in front of rita)..... but other that that, i dont really mind the trades lowe made..... i just feel that this team is playing TERRIBLY... does this mead they wont make the playoffs or have a good season? of course not.... but jsut because they *might* play better down the road and make the playoffs, doesnt mean my points and worries arent valid..... because afterall... they *are* playing very badly

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:45 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
So does that mean our record after the deals which was excellent and pulled us into the playoffs confirmed the trades was good? Hmm, hate to pull facts on the table again.

But that record didn't prove the trades and the moves were good just as the slow start doesn't prove they were bad either.

People are overreacting and that is my simple point!

Thought I would pull out some real ancient history for you. The record after 8 games in 89-90 when the Oilers when the Stanley Cup 3-4-1.

Wonder how many people were panicking then?
I agree that many are over-reacting. But there was still a large group of posters here that identified fairly obvious holes in the lineup well before training camp started (top-2 centre, top-3 dman).

Personally I'm not really concerned about their slow start. I'm not concerned that Dvorak and Isbister are where they are in terms of points. I'm not really overly concerned about Brewer's development (although I certainly don't like how he's playing). But I am concerned about the talent on defense, and the lack of natural offensive centres... and don't like our chances this year without either ingrediant.

People who expect a young, inexperienced and inexpensive team to play at a high level every night are fooling themselves IMO... but so are the people that are confident that we can win enough games to get in to the playoffs with the current roster.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:47 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Oh I get the point, I just think alot of the people that have been percieved as "panicking" have actually had legit concerns that they want addressed for a long time now, so expressing those is not panicking.

I am however in a hurry, every wasted game is one more pressure-cooker at the end.
Of course and I don't disagree with that.

What I was really pointing out is that we suddenly can't assume that not having Niinimaa, Comrie and Marchant for the 8 games didn't necessarily account to our bad start. That is what I was pointing out in my post.

These were the people I was addressing, not people that have concerns about the lineup because I have those concerns as well.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:48 PM
  #14
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I completely disagree, your points may seem more valid and legtiimate to you because oft he current record after 8 games but in reality as spaz said "it is only 8 games" If the team was 8-0 would you still have those same conerns? if you did you'd look like a chump, no offense but thats the way it is,. THere is another post dedicated to perspective, check it out...its a good read.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:50 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Of course and I don't disagree with that.

What I was really pointing out is that we suddenly can't assume that not having Niinimaa, Comrie and Marchant for the 8 games didn't necessarily account to our bad start. That is what I was pointing out in my post.

These were the people I was addressing, not people that have concerns about the lineup because I have those concerns as well.
I see your point, although I do believe frankly we'd be rolling if we had MC and Janne in the lineup, but again, another thread and just speculation.

Just get a little rant-y sometimes when people might take a topic as saying changing the team is panicking. I know that wasn't your intent, but wanted to get in before anyone came at it from that angle.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:51 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Double
I completely disagree, your points may seem more valid and legtiimate to you because oft he current record after 8 games but in reality as spaz said "it is only 8 games" If the team was 8-0 would you still have those same conerns? if you did you'd look like a chump, no offense but thats the way it is,. THere is another post dedicated to perspective, check it out...its a good read.
Of course that would depend on how each of those games were won. Unbelievable goaltending? Excellent defense from forwards and dmen? Exceptional scoring? It depends.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:54 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Double
I completely disagree, your points may seem more valid and legtiimate to you because oft he current record after 8 games but in reality as spaz said "it is only 8 games" If the team was 8-0 would you still have those same conerns? if you did you'd look like a chump, no offense but thats the way it is,. THere is another post dedicated to perspective, check it out...its a good read.
Why not still have those concerns? After all, there would still be 74 games left and we'd be off to a good enough start that people would be thinking of big things. The situation dictates everything. So what if we were undefeated after 8 games? If the the team could be made better for playoff position/playoffs/cup run, then yeah I'd make a point about that.

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Old
10-27-2003, 04:54 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
I see your point, although I do believe frankly we'd be rolling if we had MC and Janne in the lineup, but again, another thread and just speculation.

Just get a little rant-y sometimes when people might take a topic as saying changing the team is panicking. I know that wasn't your intent, but wanted to get in before anyone came at it from that angle.
But I never said that in my original point, it was you that took that out of it and didn't read what I originally said properly.

I then reacted to what you took out of that post.

Maybe you should reread my first post?

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10-27-2003, 04:56 PM
  #19
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Statistics can be manipulated any way you want.

Cory (the scoring machine) Cross has 4 points in 8 games. Do you think he's going to get 40 points this year?.

Tommy Salo has a save percentage of .856 (what's with that anyway, .856 isn't a percentage but that's how the NHL reports it). Even worse, his 3.54 GAA, projected over an 80 game schedule is 283 goals against.

So far the Oilers have scored 22 goals in 8 games for a projected total of 220 for the season. Since Tommy doesn't play all the time extrapolation only yields 260 goals against.

Statistics sure are fun, and are equally meaningless.

 
Old
10-27-2003, 04:59 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Statistics can be manipulated any way you want.

Cory (the scoring machine) Cross has 4 points in 8 games. Do you think he's going to get 40 points this year?.

Tommy Salo has a save percentage of .856 (what's with that anyway, .856 isn't a percentage but that's how the NHL reports it). Even worse, his 3.54 GAA, projected over an 80 game schedule is 283 goals against.

So far the Oilers have scored 22 goals in 8 games for a projected total of 220 for the season. Since Tommy doesn't play all the time extrapolation only yields 260 goals against.

Statistics sure are fun, and are equally meaningless.
Thanks for making my point for me. It is too early to get excited about anything. Good or bad!

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Old
10-27-2003, 05:00 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
But I never said that in my original point, it was you that took that out of it and didn't read what I originally said properly.

I then reacted to what you took out of that post.

Maybe you should reread my first post?
I was reacting to how people might interpret your original post, which was this:

"Oilers record last year with Ninimaa and Marchant and Comrie in the lineup after 8 games last year. 2-4-2-0. = 6 points.

Record now = 3-5 = 6 points

This is for all the posts that with these guys we would be so much better.

Obviously not necessarily.

Lets keep thinks in perspective people."

Now, I may be taking this the wrong way, but it sure looks like you're saying to everyone that thinks the team would be better this year with those guys playing is wrong, which is simply not provable via those stats.

Also, my perspective never changes, I want wins, as many wins as possible, especially in games we have no business losing.

I really think you're taking what I said the wrong way.

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10-27-2003, 05:03 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
I was reacting to how people might interpret your original post, which was this:

"Oilers record last year with Ninimaa and Marchant and Comrie in the lineup after 8 games last year. 2-4-2-0. = 6 points.

Record now = 3-5 = 6 points

This is for all the posts that with these guys we would be so much better.

Obviously not necessarily.

Lets keep thinks in perspective people."

Now, I may be taking this the wrong way, but it sure looks like you're saying to everyone that thinks the team would be better this year with those guys playing is wrong, which is simply not provable via those stats.

Also, my perspective never changes, I want wins, as many wins as possible, especially in games we have no business losing.

I really think you're taking what I said the wrong way.
Wow do you read a lot of things between the lines? How come the first two people that read my post knew exactly what I was trying to say but you are having such a hard time grasping it.

All I am saying is that having Niinimaa, Comrie and Marchant didn't guarantee a great start last year. As we started with 6 points.

Anything else that YOU took out of that pretty simple post I can not take responsibility for.

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Old
10-27-2003, 05:08 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Wow do you read a lot of things between the lines? How come the first two people that read my post knew exactly what I was trying to say but you are having such a hard time grasping it.

All I am saying is that having Niinimaa, Comrie and Marchant didn't guarantee a great start last year. As we started with 6 points.

Anything else that YOU took out of that pretty simple post I can not take responsibility for.
Yes, and I was pointing out that I believed that to be an irrelevant thing to say.

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Old
10-27-2003, 05:16 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Yes, and I was pointing out that I believed that to be an irrelevant thing to say.
Good for you. Other posters have disagreed with you as I do.

I think it is perfectly relevant and will continue to be entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.

But for a thought that you thought was so irrelevant you sure spent a lot of time responding to it.

IMO, it was because you completely missed the point of the original post and have been trying to backtrack ever since. That is only my opinion though and it may be irrelevant.

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10-27-2003, 05:21 PM
  #25
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I've been thinking exactly the same thing spaz. The Oilers started slowly last year with only 8 points in their first 10 games. Considering their opponents so far this year I'm certainly not surprised at being 3-5 at this point. They've played Colorado twice, Vancouver, St. Louis as well as two games against Calgary whom they never play well against. While I expected them to end October 5-4 they can still finish 4-5, which isn't too bad. I am worried about the up coming road trip though.

 
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