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XM Radio/TSN: Carolina gets Mark Recchi

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Old
03-12-2006, 02:43 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Still he's developping.


Well Recchi notched more than a second rounder and you claim that Umberger's value > Recchi's.
Good to see you changed your mind. Let's hope Jester and co can agree they were wrong as well.


More complete in what sense?
Because just so you know, Armstrong's a defensive forward. And he's outscoring Umberger in points per game.


Obviously I don't. Colby is projected as a third liner forward. I sure hope he doesn't make a life on Pittsburgh's first line.


And a win by the Pens
Not changing my mind he should be a top 6 forward 3rd line at worst. Recchi got a 2nd , no more except on paper,the rest is slop. I knopw he is supposed to be a defensive forward your are the one who said he is the first line winger. Doesn't matter that he is outscoring him if you have watched both of them play Umberger is clearly the better player and I think most people would say the same. Have no idea what Armstrong average as far ice tiem but I would guess it is more than Umbergers.

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03-12-2006, 03:05 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
Recchi got a 2nd , no more except on paper,the rest is slop.
Yes he got more.
The rest is too early to judge. Just like it was too early last summer to call Colby a bust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
I knopw he is supposed to be a defensive forward your are the one who said he is the first line winger.
Nope. I said he was playing on the first line. Big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
Doesn't matter that he is outscoring him if you have watched both of them play Umberger is clearly the better player and I think most people would say the same.
Actually, I don't think Umberger is better than Armstrong.
You call me homer, as usual, but you're the one making homerish assumptions.
Armstrong is outscoring Umberger, and he's probably playing better defensively. His offensive numbers undoubtably have something to do with Sid playing alongside him, but the fact remains that he's no slouch offensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
Have no idea what Armstrong average as far ice tiem but I would guess it is more than Umbergers.
Armstrong : 17 minutes. Prod : 24
Umberger : 13 minutes. Prod : 30
Armstrong PPG : 0.72
Umberger PPG : 0.43

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03-12-2006, 03:22 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Yes he got more.
The rest is too early to judge. Just like it was too early last summer to call Colby a bust.


Nope. I said he was playing on the first line. Big difference.


Actually, I don't think Umberger is better than Armstrong.
You call me homer, as usual, but you're the one making homerish assumptions.
Armstrong is outscoring Umberger, and he's probably playing better defensively. His offensive numbers undoubtably have something to do with Sid playing alongside him, but the fact remains that he's no slouch offensively.


Armstrong : 17 minutes. Prod : 24
Umberger : 13 minutes. Prod : 30
Armstrong PPG : 0.72
Umberger PPG : 0.43
Those guys are warm bodies nothing more, you have to smart enough to know that at this point. I am not making homerish assumptions just think he is better now and has a better upside. What does Prod mean?

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03-12-2006, 03:26 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
Those guys are warm bodies nothing more, you have to smart enough to know that at this point. I am not making homerish assumptions just think he is better now and has a better upside. What does Prod mean?
I think Armstrong's better now and Umberger "could" have higher offensive upside.
As for the wamr bodies, I disagree. Kolanos is heavily talented, and all our swedish friends told us Nordgren was a very good player in Sweden and needs a chance.
I'll wait and see.

Prod : it factors the icetime and the offensive production. The smaller the number, the better you produce.
So even factoring the difference of icetime, Armstrong is producing better than Umberger.

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03-12-2006, 03:33 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
I think Armstrong's better now and Umberger "could" have higher offensive upside.
As for the wamr bodies, I disagree. Kolanos is heavily talented, and all our swedish friends told us Nordgren was a very good player in Sweden and needs a chance.
I'll wait and see.

Prod : it factors the icetime and the offensive production. The smaller the number, the better you produce.
So even factoring the difference of icetime, Armstrong is producing better than Umberger.
We will disagree with Umberger/Armstrong debate. Kolanos has been on waivers 4 or 5 times this year and CP could have claimed in then, for free, why didn't he? He will be a fill in call up type player. They didn't even keep him on the NHL roster which says a lot to me as they are not exactly stacked.

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03-12-2006, 03:49 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
We will disagree with Umberger/Armstrong debate. Kolanos has been on waivers 4 or 5 times this year and CP could have claimed in then, for free, why didn't he? He will be a fill in call up type player. They didn't even keep him on the NHL roster which says a lot to me as they are not exactly stacked.
He's on a contionning stint. 2 games, 2 points I think with WB.
He'll be in Pittsburgh soon enough.

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03-12-2006, 04:04 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
He's on a contionning stint. 2 games, 2 points I think with WB.
He'll be in Pittsburgh soon enough.
the points are irrelevent. Even if he is called up and puts up few points it is because he is playing with a last place team who doesn't have the much NHL talent right now. So it will nto surprise me if he plays ok for the Pens. On ana average team he wouldn't be int he lineup.He couldn't crack the coyotes lineup and they are not exactly over flowing with talent.

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03-12-2006, 05:51 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
the points are irrelevent. Even if he is called up and puts up few points it is because he is playing with a last place team who doesn't have the much NHL talent right now. So it will nto surprise me if he plays ok for the Pens. On ana average team he wouldn't be int he lineup.He couldn't crack the coyotes lineup and they are not exactly over flowing with talent.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kolanos' problem that he was injured? Not that he couldn't crack the lineup on an "average" team?

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03-12-2006, 05:54 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Pens1566
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kolanos' problem that he was injured? Not that he couldn't crack the lineup on an "average" team?
not to my knowledge, he had a concussion a few years back. you don't get waived 4 or 5 times in one year, play for 3 different teams if you can play on a regular basis.

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03-12-2006, 06:00 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
not to my knowledge, he had a concussion a few years back. you don't get waived 4 or 5 times in one year, play for 3 different teams if you can play on a regular basis.
The injury was recurring post-concussion syndrome.

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03-12-2006, 06:05 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Pens1566
The injury was recurring post-concussion syndrome.
it is [possible but I don't think he has had that this year.

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03-12-2006, 11:41 PM
  #162
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Nah, that feels good, doesn't it?
Not only did the Pens win tonight, but here's an interesting stat :
Armstrong : 23 minutes, 2 goals, 2 points, +1, game winning goal.
Umberger : 18 minutes, 0 point, -1

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03-13-2006, 12:40 AM
  #163
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if you have watched both of them play Umberger is clearly the better player and I think most people would say the same.
What are you smoking?

Umberger is nowhere near the complete player Armstrong is.

Face offs, penalty kill, defensive play, offensive production, physical grit, veteran poise... please.

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03-13-2006, 01:38 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
If Hitchcock is the coach that is a distinct possibility and he is playing on the 4th line as well with quality players like Brashear and Savage.They really bring out is potential. Whitney is 23 while an NHL rookie did play 3/4 years of college and int he AHL. Not like a 18/19 right out of Juniors.

As far as Umberger, I am not saying by any means he will be a star.I don't know if he would fetch a first but he still would get more than a 2nd but we will never know. I would take him over colby in a NY second though as he is a more complete player and he even sat out a year and that doesn't look like it hurt his develpment that much. On a good team IMO Armstrong wouldn't be in the NHL. He will still be fringe/4th NHL when the Pens address their need for a winger or 2 as he is not a top 6 winger IMO. In your mind he is and that is fine. Hopefully the game tonigh is a good one with soem scrums and physical play.
Boy that "fringe" player Armstrong really got "lucky" tonight didn't he?

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03-13-2006, 11:45 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Nah, that feels good, doesn't it?
Not only did the Pens win tonight, but here's an interesting stat :
Armstrong : 23 minutes, 2 goals, 2 points, +1, game winning goal.
Umberger : 18 minutes, 0 point, -1
he had a nice game, still not going to change my opinion.

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03-13-2006, 11:47 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman
What are you smoking?

Umberger is nowhere near the complete player Armstrong is.

Face offs, penalty kill, defensive play, offensive production, physical grit, veteran poise... please.
if you say so. did it occur to you that Armstrong is in that role because he plays for a bad team. On a good team he doesn't see the pp or pk. physical grit? veteran poise? defensive play? whatever

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03-13-2006, 12:51 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFax
Boy that "fringe" player Armstrong really got "lucky" tonight didn't he?
He can't be good, he was on waivers. And Hamburger is way better, he did get that one shot on the flyers 7min pp.

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03-13-2006, 01:35 PM
  #168
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How did this turn into a debate over who's better, Armstrong or Umberger?

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03-13-2006, 02:08 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes
How did this turn into a debate over who's better, Armstrong or Umberger?
It has to do with flyer fans claiming Hamburger was some untouchable super prodigy leading up to the deadline. He was mentioned as a possible return for recchi, and the inevitable "our prospects are better than your prospects" argument insued. Something about the pens could have had him if they wanted him, flyers fans retorted with "but armstrong was on waivers!" at some point.

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03-13-2006, 02:44 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO
he had a nice game, still not going to change my opinion.
Unfortunately, we know that. That's what you called homer when it's the other fans.
After this game (and the games this season), I think you can't say Armstrong is a bust and you can't say Umberger is clearly better or a more complete player.
You're wrong on all of these, face it.

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03-13-2006, 02:55 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Unfortunately, we know that. That's what you called homer when it's the other fans.
After this game (and the games this season), I think you can't say Armstrong is a bust and you can't say Umberger is clearly better or a more complete player.
You're wrong on all of these, face it.
Oh noooooooooooesssssss!

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03-13-2006, 02:57 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Unfortunately, we know that. That's what you called homer when it's the other fans.
After this game (and the games this season), I think you can't say Armstrong is a bust and you can't say Umberger is clearly better or a more complete player.
You're wrong on all of these, face it.
Lets see him do it next year and the year after. A lot of Pens fans thought Ric Jackman was going to be great, solid dman after his run last year. Where is he now? I can say he is more of a bust than not considering he was drafted 5 years ago and has played a handful of NHL games. If he is around in 2/3 years then we can revisit this topic. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. He played a good game Umberger didnít. I am far from a homer and if you read my post I think you know that at this point. I am not wrong saying he is a better or more complete player. I would be curious to see what other people (non Flyers/Pens fans) think about this topic. Any chance you open a thread on the prospects page and to get peopleís opinion.

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03-13-2006, 04:18 PM
  #173
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Well you judge Umberger on 55 games, but we have to wait a year to judge Amrstrong?
How are you not wrong to say Armstrong is a more complete player?
You could say Umberger has more offensive upside, but even there, Armstrong is totally outscoring him.

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03-14-2006, 01:18 PM
  #174
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He did make a run at Buffalo goalie Mika Noronen , who was traded to Vancouver for a second-round pick in the 2006 draft. The Lightning does not have a second-round pick this year, but was willing to trade its 2007 second-round pick and add something else to get Noronen. The problem was Buffalo GM Darcy Regier was not going to help out a conference rival when he could get the same deal from a Western team.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/03/14/Li...easons_t.shtml

something to chew on with this whole value of a pick discussion...

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