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Old
10-26-2003, 09:34 AM
  #26
momentai
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
(another minor point- gee, I'm picky today- the Ducks didn't have to offer him a 10% raise. A qualifying offer for players over the league average salary just require the same money they earned the season before.)
yeah, my fault. Glad someone caught it.

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10-26-2003, 09:38 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by omar
You're right, but Comrie hasn't said he won't sign.
His agent said it for him. So, within the terms of his 'confidentiality agreement' , he has said he won't sign.

btw - I'll take the HIGH ROAD all the way.

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10-26-2003, 09:47 AM
  #28
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from spectors site

COMRIE NOT BOUND FOR PANTHERS OR THRASHERS?

FT. LAUDERDALE SUN-SENTINEL: Michael Russo reports of speculation Mike Comrie could be dealt to the Atlanta Thrashers, however, he correctly notes the club is having no trouble scoring thus far and doubts he'll wind up there. Russo also disputes reports of Comrie going to the Florida Panthers, citing the fact the centre is believed seeking over $4 million per season, too rich for the Panthers blood. He believes the New Jersey Devils might be a good fit.

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Old
10-26-2003, 10:00 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by IceDragoon
His agent said it for him. So, within the terms of his 'confidentiality agreement' , he has said he won't sign.

btw - I'll take the HIGH ROAD all the way.
His agent said no such thing.

The quote is ""The chances of Mike Comrie playing for the Oilers is zero," a frustrated Winter said on Saturday. "The differences between the two sides is great. "It's not possible to get a deal done.""

What this means is that unless someone, Comrie, Lowe or both, alters their position a deal is unreachable.

I am confident that Winter could have a Comrie signature in seconds. The problem is Lowe won't sign it.

 
Old
10-26-2003, 10:11 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Lafleur
I say trade him for someone like Tucker or Shane Doan ..some one who actually play like the game means something to them.I am sick of the emotionless Oilers going through the motions .laracque ..yes he is the best masher in the league ..but he isnt scary like a Marty or semenko was ..he doesnt initiate enough ....I dont know , the way the Flames are playing this year under Sutter ..i can honestly see them wrestling that final playoff spot from the Oil. :mad:
Honestly, who left in the league IS scary like Marty or Semenko were?
Stu Grimson's retired, so's Probert, Rob Ray is a paper tiger I think... Oliwa? Nope. Brashear thinks he's a skill guy, I think playing on Bure's line went to his head, Worrell gets hurt a lot. Cairns... maybe.

Doesn't leave a whole lot of truly scary guys left.

I don't see Doan ever coming to the Oilers, not from Phoenix anyway, and he likely isn't leaving there any time soon. Tucker's past his prime. I think others are right: Edmonton has their own Tucker, in Raffi Torres.

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10-26-2003, 10:26 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
His agent said no such thing.

The quote is ""The chances of Mike Comrie playing for the Oilers is zero," a frustrated Winter said on Saturday. "The differences between the two sides is great. "It's not possible to get a deal done.""

What this means is that unless someone, Comrie, Lowe or both, alters their position a deal is unreachable.

I am confident that Winter could have a Comrie signature in seconds. The problem is Lowe won't sign it.
Nor should he.

Lowe needs to make a deal that is best for the team in all apescts... not just make Comrie happy.

What if Comrie is asking for $4mil a year + bonuses... should Lowe just go ahead and sign?

Of course not. Lowe not only has to worry about budget implications, but players like Hemsky... what is he going to want when his deal is up? These are things Lowe has to think about.

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Old
10-26-2003, 10:27 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
Use your heads a minute.


Comrie being signed or unsigned doesn't affect how easy it is to trade him. The adage "It's easier to trade signed players" only applies when they're signed for *reasonable* money. (Jagr's signed... Yashin's signed... Guerin's signed... think their contracts make them easier to trade?)

If some team is serious about acquiring Comrie, they can call Rich Winter and talk salary right after they call Lowe and ask what he wants back. In fact, I expect that most GMs who have even a remote interest in Comrie have *already* talked to Rich Winter and know how much he'd sign for. Comrie being unsigned is not an obstacle to his being traded *unless* Comrie's salary expectations are outrageous- and if they are, then signing him to that contract makes him *untradeable*.
Guerin was traded by Edmonton because he was going to become an unrestricted free agent meaning Group III not Group II. Jagr was traded because Pittsburg was doing a salary dump and couldn't afford him. In Yashin's case the Islanders determined what was reasonable.

A team does not have to talk to the Oilers before signing Comrie. They can sign Comrie to an "offer sheet" which the Oilers can match. Should the Oilers not match they are entitled to compensation based on the value of the contract. A team that does not have good draft positioning could pick up Comrie for $2M and the Oilers would have to decide if a 1st and 3rd late pick are better than matching or watching him walk.

 
Old
10-26-2003, 10:33 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Guerin was traded by Edmonton because he was going to become an unrestricted free agent meaning Group III not Group II. Jagr was traded because Pittsburg was doing a salary dump and couldn't afford him. In Yashin's case the Islanders determined what was reasonable.

A team does not have to talk to the Oilers before signing Comrie. They can sign Comrie to an "offer sheet" which the Oilers can match. Should the Oilers not match they are entitled to compensation based on the value of the contract. A team that does not have good draft positioning could pick up Comrie for $2M and the Oilers would have to decide if a 1st and 3rd late pick are better than matching or watching him walk.
You seem to forget one major fact...

If an American team makes that offer to Comrie, the Oilers can match that offer in Canadian dollars... so it isn't going to happen.

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10-26-2003, 10:46 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
You seem to forget one major fact...

If an American team makes that offer to Comrie, the Oilers can match that offer in Canadian dollars... so it isn't going to happen.
Are you saying that if Comrie signs for $2M US with, say Florida, that the Oilers would only pay Comrie $2M CDN. Or are you saying that Comrie gets $2M US and the league makes up the difference to the Oilers?

 
Old
10-26-2003, 10:51 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Are you saying that if Comrie signs for $2M US with, say Florida, that the Oilers would only pay Comrie $2M CDN. Or are you saying that Comrie gets $2M US and the league makes up the difference to the Oilers?
Yep.

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Old
10-26-2003, 10:53 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Are you saying that if Comrie signs for $2M US with, say Florida, that the Oilers would only pay Comrie $2M CDN. Or are you saying that Comrie gets $2M US and the league makes up the difference to the Oilers?
Yessir. I believe the NHL picks up the balance.

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Old
10-26-2003, 10:55 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Are you saying that if Comrie signs for $2M US with, say Florida, that the Oilers would only pay Comrie $2M CDN. Or are you saying that Comrie gets $2M US and the league makes up the difference to the Oilers?
Both, actually - Oilers pay $2 million CAN to Comrie, the league makes up the difference, Comrie gets $2 million U.S.

But THAT now becomes the salary he'd need to be qualified at. There was a lot of talk about this with the Iginla situation not too long ago, where some people HOPED a U.S. team would give an offer sheet of $5-$6 million U.S. to Iginla. Then the Flames could match in Canadian funds & be better off...but then have to qualify him at that rate in U.S. funds after the contract was up again.

Bart

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Old
10-26-2003, 11:01 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
"The chances of Mike Comrie playing for the Oilers is zero," a frustrated Winter said on Saturday. "The differences between the two sides is great. "It's not possible to get a deal done."
What this means is, you can twist it to what you want it to mean?

"The chances of Mike Comrie playing for the Oilers is zero,"

Where do you get an 'unless anything' out of that? Certainly not from Winters. He's the one talking for Mike, right? And he said "zero", not - highly unlikely, or any other 'hazy' comment.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that he's lying. That wouldn't be smart on his part, not good for his reputation or consequently, his income.

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10-26-2003, 11:05 AM
  #39
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I'm coming in late but Winter's comments are classic negotiation tactics. He's trying to place heat on the Oilers to either cave to Comrie's demands or trade him immediately. It is an obvious effort to fuel the fires of fan discontent over our poor start and stimulate pressure by making comments that other teams have made serious inquiries about Comrie. What we don't know is the quality of offer being made.

Winter's sole interest is in getting Comrie lots of money (ie. best deal possible) wherever that may be. He has built his reputation as a hardline, vocal player agent. Having his client sit helplessly unsigned does not achieve this goal so Winter's is trying to stir things up to place pressure on the Oiler management. Good for Kevin Lowe to stick to his guns and not blinking.

P.S. I'm curious about the sidebar discussion about free agent signing and matching in Canadian dollars. The U.S. dollar is used as the standard currency for player contracts. I will be interested to learn the definitive truth in this matter but I am skeptical about league matching in Canadian dollars.

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10-26-2003, 11:10 AM
  #40
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What interests me about the Ireland article is that the general tone of it seems to suggest the dissention between the 2 sides is Mainly money related.

I mean, from prior reports we've heard just how much Comrie was hurt by Lowe’s comment’s last spring, that the bickering between the 2 sides may have started a while ago, Comrie's views on playing in his hometown, the pressure-cooker that is Edmonton in the middle of hockey season. But now it seems Comrie just may want a healthy increase on his prior contract (which was as we all know ridiculously bonus-laden). So if we take all that prior hearsay about Comrie truly hating to play in Edmonton, and think for a second that Lowe's proposal and Comries signature on a 3year/8.8 Million dollar will get Mike back into the lineup as if Nothing ever happened.... that really puts a new perspective on why Mike Comrie isn’t on the team right now, and what Kevin Lowe is trying to as our GM.

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Old
10-26-2003, 11:15 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceDragoon
What this means is, you can twist it to what you want it to mean?

"The chances of Mike Comrie playing for the Oilers is zero,"

Where do you get an 'unless anything' out of that? Certainly not from Winters. He's the one talking for Mike, right? And he said "zero", not - highly unlikely, or any other 'hazy' comment.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that he's lying. That wouldn't be smart on his part, not good for his reputation or consequently, his income.
more than a few times in recent memory a player has said he will never lace up for a particular team again, only to sign a healthy contract 1.5 weeks later. its a ploy which can be explained away later as "taken out of context".

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10-26-2003, 11:17 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by barto
Both, actually - Oilers pay $2 million CAN to Comrie, the league makes up the difference, Comrie gets $2 million U.S.

But THAT now becomes the salary he'd need to be qualified at. There was a lot of talk about this with the Iginla situation not too long ago, where some people HOPED a U.S. team would give an offer sheet of $5-$6 million U.S. to Iginla. Then the Flames could match in Canadian funds & be better off...but then have to qualify him at that rate in U.S. funds after the contract was up again.

Bart
Here's a question then; with this rule in mind, could EDM not approach some team looking for depth and trade them Pisani (for example) for "Future considerations", where the future considerations is having them offer Comrie a $2.5 million contract? We then get to sign Comrie at 2.5 Canadian (about 1.8ish US), we make room for Rita, and the other team makes out with Pisani and one less piece of paper (for Comrie's contract offer).

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Old
10-26-2003, 11:25 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by IceDragoon
What this means is, you can twist it to what you want it to mean?

"The chances of Mike Comrie playing for the Oilers is zero,"

Where do you get an 'unless anything' out of that? Certainly not from Winters. He's the one talking for Mike, right? And he said "zero", not - highly unlikely, or any other 'hazy' comment.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that he's lying. That wouldn't be smart on his part, not good for his reputation or consequently, his income.
If we want to parse the English language for a while your comment was

"His agent said it for him. So, within the terms of his 'confidentiality agreement' , he has said he won't sign."

My quote of a quote was "The chances of Mike Comrie playing for the Oilers is zero"

I don't see the word "sign" anywhere in that comment.

 
Old
10-26-2003, 12:05 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
P.S. I'm curious about the sidebar discussion about free agent signing and matching in Canadian dollars. The U.S. dollar is used as the standard currency for player contracts. I will be interested to learn the definitive truth in this matter but I am skeptical about league matching in Canadian dollars.
http://slam.canoe.ca/HockeyOttawaArc...t7_hkyott.html
That's just the first article I found mentioning this; I googled for "nhl salary match canadian US dollars free agent".

It also matches my memory - I'm sure I brought this up in another thread a month or so ago, regarding Comrie. I don't know if this is in the CBA or not; I suspect it would have to be. I don't know where to find the CBA online, or even if it is. I don't care enough to look - I'm satisfied that this is true for RFAs given offer sheets, even if you're not.

Regarding your comments about Winter, I think they're dead-on: Winter is using the media to place pressure on Lowe, the same as Lowe used the media to place pressure on MC himself.

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Old
10-26-2003, 01:19 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
Guerin was traded by Edmonton because he was going to become an unrestricted free agent meaning Group III not Group II. Jagr was traded because Pittsburg was doing a salary dump and couldn't afford him. In Yashin's case the Islanders determined what was reasonable.

A team does not have to talk to the Oilers before signing Comrie. They can sign Comrie to an "offer sheet" which the Oilers can match. Should the Oilers not match they are entitled to compensation based on the value of the contract. A team that does not have good draft positioning could pick up Comrie for $2M and the Oilers would have to decide if a 1st and 3rd late pick are better than matching or watching him walk.
Dallas has been trying to move Bill Guerin for months, and they can't because no team is willing to take on his contract. The Capitals would love to move Jagr, but they can't. No team is willing to take on his contract. Ditto Yashin. Ditto with Curtis Joseph.

Signing Mike Comrie to some god-awful contract that makes him and his agent happy does *not* make Comrie easier to trade. It makes him damned near impossible to trade, because no team in the NHL is going to pay Comrie $4 million a year or anything close to it.

Forget the possibility of a team sending Comrie an offer-sheet. It's just not done in the NHL. It's only happened a handful of times in the history of the current CBA. If Comrie leaves Edmonton, it's almost 100% certain to be by trade. Trade. Trade.

And you can bet that any team that's making an offer to Lowe will have talked to Winter to find out what kind of contract he would agree to.

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10-26-2003, 01:30 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by comrie
Here's a question then; with this rule in mind, could EDM not approach some team looking for depth and trade them Pisani (for example) for "Future considerations", where the future considerations is having them offer Comrie a $2.5 million contract? We then get to sign Comrie at 2.5 Canadian (about 1.8ish US), we make room for Rita, and the other team makes out with Pisani and one less piece of paper (for Comrie's contract offer).
Bettman would never let it happen. Even if they never officially made it part of the "future considerations", if a team made a suspicious offer to Comrie, especially after a lop-sided trade with that team was recently made with the Oilers, Bettman would void the deal. The NHL would be very careful with any teams abusing the matching rule, and would probably revoke it for any team that openly abused it in such a matter.

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Old
10-26-2003, 02:00 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
Signing Mike Comrie to some god-awful contract that makes him and his agent happy does *not* make Comrie easier to trade. It makes him damned near impossible to trade, because no team in the NHL is going to pay Comrie $4 million a year or anything close to it.

Forget the possibility of a team sending Comrie an offer-sheet. It's just not done in the NHL.
I suggested $2M, others have suggested $1.8M. The fact is that no one on this board, or anyone in the press knows the number.

I wouldn't pay $4M for Comrie, Lowe won't pay it and no one else will.

But $2M if Comrie is willing, I think there are takers

 
Old
10-26-2003, 02:41 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by kraigus
http://slam.canoe.ca/HockeyOttawaArc...t7_hkyott.html
That's just the first article I found mentioning this; I googled for "nhl salary match canadian US dollars free agent".

It also matches my memory - I'm sure I brought this up in another thread a month or so ago, regarding Comrie. I don't know if this is in the CBA or not; I suspect it would have to be. I don't know where to find the CBA online, or even if it is. I don't care enough to look - I'm satisfied that this is true for RFAs given offer sheets, even if you're not.
Thanks Kraigus. Appreciate your link on this matter and for busting my assumption.

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10-26-2003, 04:20 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
Thanks Kraigus. Appreciate your link on this matter and for busting my assumption.
np - honestly, if I hadn't heard it elsewhere several times, I'd have been a bit suspicious too. It's almost too good to be true.

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10-26-2003, 04:51 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omar
I suggested $2M, others have suggested $1.8M. The fact is that no one on this board, or anyone in the press knows the number.

I wouldn't pay $4M for Comrie, Lowe won't pay it and no one else will.

But $2M if Comrie is willing, I think there are takers

If Comrie was willing to sign that contract, it doesn't matter if the Oilers sign him to it or his next team signs him to it. It doesn't affect his trade situation.

If he really does want out, then Comrie also has a very good reason *not* to sign with the Oilers: if he signs a contract the Oilers don't really have to trade him any more, do they. Once he puts pen to paper, he has to play, and he can't force a trade.

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