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Old
03-09-2006, 05:18 PM
  #1
Miller Time
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Question for Gainey...

Are you SURE that this squad has what it needs, as is, to fight off Atlanta and Toronto and secure a playoff spot this year?

If his answer is yes... Then I seriously question his hockey acumen.
If his answer is no... Then I wonder "WHAT THE HELL IS HE GETTING PAID FOR?"

A lot of people here seem to support regardless of what he does (or doesn't do), and I can't help but think the unconditional love is a little misguided.

Personally I dislike the Theo deal... Abby and Cap room (and it's not like the habs were hard up against it, and we'd be even less so if we didn't have so much money tied up in guys like Bonk and Dandy) are just not enough for a guy who is only a few years removed from the HART trophy, and just in the prime years of his career. Fine Jose stunk this year, but with all the problems he's dealt with (some is own fault granted) it is not a stretch to believe that with a little tranquility in his life he will regain his form.

But the bigger problem is the way Gainey handles/manages the teams assets. Right now we just aren't getting enough in return for what we have. For years the habs squandered Draft picks, since Savard came to town we have done a better job with that, but it becomes useless if we don't maximizes the value of the NHL ready players we have.
Theo for abby may be addition by subtraction, but as I understand the world of business, the idea is to "Sell HIGH" and buy "LOW". There is no way you can convince me that Theo's value could be any lower than it is right now. Some of you may recall that Gainey brought the "cap guy" with him to Colorado a few months back... I'd bet my left nut that Lacroix had more on the table back then, just think about it, right now he got an injured theo that can't play for another few weeks and the Avs are in a playoff battle... You gotta figure that Lacroix used that to his advantage in the negotiations.

If we miss the playoffs, Gainey had better be a magic man this summer, cuz if not he'll quickly fall into "rejean houle" territory!

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Old
03-09-2006, 05:33 PM
  #2
Shabutie
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For him to have gotten Bertuzzi (arguably the best player availible), it would of cost us a defender which was a liability we couldn't afford. Also if you look at how ridiculously overpriced most D's went for, I'm happy we didn't go for any of them (ESPECIALLY Gauthier). I think Gainey certainly helped the team and we will make the playoffs their's no doubt in my mind of that. Keep in mind that Atl and Tampa didn't upgrade and we did (Theo wasn't with us till playoffs).

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Old
03-09-2006, 05:36 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time
Are you SURE that this squad has what it needs, as is, to fight off Atlanta and Toronto and secure a playoff spot this year?

If his answer is yes... Then I seriously question his hockey acumen.
If his answer is no... Then I wonder "WHAT THE HELL IS HE GETTING PAID FOR?"

A lot of people here seem to support regardless of what he does (or doesn't do), and I can't help but think the unconditional love is a little misguided.

Personally I dislike the Theo deal... Abby and Cap room (and it's not like the habs were hard up against it, and we'd be even less so if we didn't have so much money tied up in guys like Bonk and Dandy) are just not enough for a guy who is only a few years removed from the HART trophy, and just in the prime years of his career. Fine Jose stunk this year, but with all the problems he's dealt with (some is own fault granted) it is not a stretch to believe that with a little tranquility in his life he will regain his form.

But the bigger problem is the way Gainey handles/manages the teams assets. Right now we just aren't getting enough in return for what we have. For years the habs squandered Draft picks, since Savard came to town we have done a better job with that, but it becomes useless if we don't maximizes the value of the NHL ready players we have.
Theo for abby may be addition by subtraction, but as I understand the world of business, the idea is to "Sell HIGH" and buy "LOW". There is no way you can convince me that Theo's value could be any lower than it is right now. Some of you may recall that Gainey brought the "cap guy" with him to Colorado a few months back... I'd bet my left nut that Lacroix had more on the table back then, just think about it, right now he got an injured theo that can't play for another few weeks and the Avs are in a playoff battle... You gotta figure that Lacroix used that to his advantage in the negotiations.

If we miss the playoffs, Gainey had better be a magic man this summer, cuz if not he'll quickly fall into "rejean houle" territory!
I couldn't disagree more. All of my friends (leaf, Flyers etc) fans and my boss (diehard Avs fan) also disagree.

Don't forget that the summer will have a great UFA stock of goalies. Montreal is not built to win until 2008 or 2009 anyway.

Gainey also put Theo in the best place possible. We don't have to worry about a flip like Hackett - Boston. Colorado is going to keep him. Theodore is only a 2 game of the year headache now.

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Old
03-09-2006, 05:40 PM
  #4
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You scared of the Leafs because of Richardson?

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Old
03-09-2006, 05:42 PM
  #5
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I think we have to keep in mind that the Habs ARE in a transition mode (getting younger) while trying to make the playoffs.

All the interesting players that have been trade would have cost us some prospects or picks, which is not what you're doing while building a team for the futur. The only players we had that may have been available (Zed? Ribs? Souray?) are not exactly young prospects or picks... I don't think they were interesting for most sellers.

Gainey keep the team almost intact and young while giving us some cap room and two guys that can immediatly help a bit in our playoffs hunt (Simpson for depth and grit, and Abiescher for goalie talent -- Theo had talent, but not this year).

...and we'll never know about the trades that Gainey may have been 2 or 3 minutes away to make untill another team make a better offer... I'm surprised how much teams payed for the players they got...

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Old
03-09-2006, 05:43 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time
Are you SURE that this squad has what it needs, as is, to fight off Atlanta and Toronto and secure a playoff spot this year?

If his answer is yes... Then I seriously question his hockey acumen.
If his answer is no... Then I wonder "WHAT THE HELL IS HE GETTING PAID FOR?"

A lot of people here seem to support regardless of what he does (or doesn't do), and I can't help but think the unconditional love is a little misguided.

Personally I dislike the Theo deal... Abby and Cap room (and it's not like the habs were hard up against it, and we'd be even less so if we didn't have so much money tied up in guys like Bonk and Dandy) are just not enough for a guy who is only a few years removed from the HART trophy, and just in the prime years of his career. Fine Jose stunk this year, but with all the problems he's dealt with (some is own fault granted) it is not a stretch to believe that with a little tranquility in his life he will regain his form.

But the bigger problem is the way Gainey handles/manages the teams assets. Right now we just aren't getting enough in return for what we have. For years the habs squandered Draft picks, since Savard came to town we have done a better job with that, but it becomes useless if we don't maximizes the value of the NHL ready players we have.
Theo for abby may be addition by subtraction, but as I understand the world of business, the idea is to "Sell HIGH" and buy "LOW". There is no way you can convince me that Theo's value could be any lower than it is right now. Some of you may recall that Gainey brought the "cap guy" with him to Colorado a few months back... I'd bet my left nut that Lacroix had more on the table back then, just think about it, right now he got an injured theo that can't play for another few weeks and the Avs are in a playoff battle... You gotta figure that Lacroix used that to his advantage in the negotiations.

If we miss the playoffs, Gainey had better be a magic man this summer, cuz if not he'll quickly fall into "rejean houle" territory!
This team has proven so many times that they could win against anyone.... If Huet and Aebischer becomes the next Roloson/Fernandez, this team is gonna win more than they will lose.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:30 PM
  #7
davey999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time
Are you SURE that this squad has what it needs, as is, to fight off Atlanta and Toronto and secure a playoff spot this year?

If his answer is yes... Then I seriously question his hockey acumen.
If his answer is no... Then I wonder "WHAT THE HELL IS HE GETTING PAID FOR?"

A lot of people here seem to support regardless of what he does (or doesn't do), and I can't help but think the unconditional love is a little misguided.

Personally I dislike the Theo deal... Abby and Cap room (and it's not like the habs were hard up against it, and we'd be even less so if we didn't have so much money tied up in guys like Bonk and Dandy) are just not enough for a guy who is only a few years removed from the HART trophy, and just in the prime years of his career. Fine Jose stunk this year, but with all the problems he's dealt with (some is own fault granted) it is not a stretch to believe that with a little tranquility in his life he will regain his form.

But the bigger problem is the way Gainey handles/manages the teams assets. Right now we just aren't getting enough in return for what we have. For years the habs squandered Draft picks, since Savard came to town we have done a better job with that, but it becomes useless if we don't maximizes the value of the NHL ready players we have.
Theo for abby may be addition by subtraction, but as I understand the world of business, the idea is to "Sell HIGH" and buy "LOW". There is no way you can convince me that Theo's value could be any lower than it is right now. Some of you may recall that Gainey brought the "cap guy" with him to Colorado a few months back... I'd bet my left nut that Lacroix had more on the table back then, just think about it, right now he got an injured theo that can't play for another few weeks and the Avs are in a playoff battle... You gotta figure that Lacroix used that to his advantage in the negotiations.

If we miss the playoffs, Gainey had better be a magic man this summer, cuz if not he'll quickly fall into "rejean houle" territory!
Agree. I would say 80-90% of this board are Habs apologists...

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:30 PM
  #8
Shabutie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
Agree. I would say 80-90% of this board are Habs apologists...
No it's just that 10-20% of you don't know a good thing when you see it.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:31 PM
  #9
davey999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATHLÉTIQUE_CANADIEN
I couldn't disagree more. All of my friends (leaf, Flyers etc) fans and my boss (diehard Avs fan) also disagree.

Don't forget that the summer will have a great UFA stock of goalies. Montreal is not built to win until 2008 or 2009 anyway.

Gainey also put Theo in the best place possible. We don't have to worry about a flip like Hackett - Boston. Colorado is going to keep him. Theodore is only a 2 game of the year headache now.
2009? Are you freakin kidding?

We always say that the UFA's look good and we end up with Dandenault.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:31 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie
No it's just that 10-20% of you don't know a good thing when you see it.
What's a good thing? Being in 8th place?

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:32 PM
  #11
Shabutie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
2009? Are you freakin kidding?

We always say that the UFA's look good and we end up with Dandenault.
The UFA pool is much bigger/better this year than last.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:33 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
What's a good thing? Being in 8th place?
Was does being in 8th place have anything to do with Gainey as a GM? If everyone would've done their job this year (including theo) we would've been at the very least in 5th-6th spot. By trading Theo and getting Abby he's assured us a playoff spot.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:37 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
2009? Are you freakin kidding?

We always say that the UFA's look good and we end up with Dandenault.
Yes 2008/9 is the deadline to being cup contenders. Where have you been since August?

Oh, guess you weren't there in August either because the UFA's didn't look good after the first day of GM giving away crazy contracts.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:38 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie
Was does being in 8th place have anything to do with Gainey as a GM? If everyone would've done their job this year (including theo) we would've been at the very least in 5th-6th spot. By trading Theo and getting Abby he's assured us a playoff spot.
You're the first one to know I don't agree with you often. But when you're right, you're right.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:40 PM
  #15
Shabutie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe
You're the first one to know I don't agree with you often. But when you're right, you're right.
I don't agree with myself often.

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:43 PM
  #16
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Gainey negotiated Step I, lowering the payroll. I didn't mind that. He disappointed me by not proceeding to Step II, adding a player who might help the Habs hold on to a playoff spot. It didn't have to be a star player, just an upgrade at one position (perhaps defense). I can see the Habs losing tonight against the Bruins, followed by a defeat at the hand of the Rangers, who added Sandis Ozolinsh. Where will the Habs be on March 11?

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Old
03-09-2006, 06:47 PM
  #17
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Did I miss something today? Did any of the teams trying to catch us make great additions? Oh? They didn't? Then all their GM's are crap.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:01 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie
For him to have gotten Bertuzzi (arguably the best player availible), it would of cost us a defender which was a liability we couldn't afford. Also if you look at how ridiculously overpriced most D's went for, I'm happy we didn't go for any of them (ESPECIALLY Gauthier). I think Gainey certainly helped the team and we will make the playoffs their's no doubt in my mind of that. Keep in mind that Atl and Tampa didn't upgrade and we did (Theo wasn't with us till playoffs).
From some of the quotes I've heard, I'm starting to believe that there was never a Nonis/Gainey discussion involving Bertuzzi. When he decided to shop Theo, he may have tried to gauge their interest, but I'm not sure the discussion took place. I'm glad we didn't send 3-4 picks for a rental, we just aren't close enough.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:07 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe
You're the first one to know I don't agree with you often. But when you're right, you're right.
A playoff spot! Reach for the stars!!!

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:18 PM
  #20
Shabutie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
A playoff spot! Reach for the stars!!!
*** is wrong with you...their's nothing gainey could've done to have won us a stanley cup this year. Get it out of your head.

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03-09-2006, 07:19 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
A playoff spot! Reach for the stars!!!
Yeah sure and if the habs win their first series you will be here saying "I knew this was a great team, Gainey is a genius"

you are pathetic

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:26 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by obcd1
Yeah sure and if the habs win their first series you will be here saying "I knew this was a great team, Gainey is a genius"

you are pathetic
you're smart...

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03-09-2006, 07:31 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
you're smart...
I know

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:33 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davey999
2009? Are you freakin kidding?

We always say that the UFA's look good and we end up with Dandenault.
Do you not think there is a reason for this? Like because of peoples stupid reactions and how players get ripped in the media and on call in shows every second day? I am sure 30% of the players, if not more, in the NHL would not want to play here because of the atmosphere.

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Old
03-09-2006, 07:59 PM
  #25
Miller Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf
Do you not think there is a reason for this? Like because of peoples stupid reactions and how players get ripped in the media and on call in shows every second day? I am sure 30% of the players, if not more, in the NHL would not want to play here because of the atmosphere.
Actually, if you listen to what most players say when they get traded to a hockey mad city, they are pretty happy about it. Yeah they get it hard from the fans and media, but for most competitive athletes, that is a whole lot better than playing in obscurity in cities like columbus or phoenix.

If you look around, habs fans on the whole are not much worse than fans in toronto, ottawa, philly, vancouver etc.

Frankly I wouldn't want a player on the habs that wasn't excited about playing in a hockey mad city... at that level (elite) you want guys with balls and confidence, who want to play in the pressure cooker!

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